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  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    Nobody involved in the Party for more than 5 minutes could have failed to notice that he was unelectable, would be unable to command loyalty, and was surrounded by ideologically-driven men (and they are nearly all men) who cared more about imposing their views on the party than winning elections.
    Apart from Nick Palmer ....
  • Options
    Mr. 565, can you not see the difference between wanting the government holding to account by a credible alternative government [subsequently to be a valid choice at the ballot box], and being greatly concerned that a recently elected government has had a finance measure voted down by the unelected Upper House?

    Come on, old bean, you're not a silly sausage.

    Miss Plato, that's nothing. The weirdest fetish I ever heard/saw was, and I kid you not, a blinking fetish.

    I can't even begin to imagine what that's about.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    John_M said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    I've said repeatedly that Corbyn is a tragedy for British politics. I'm right of centre, yet understand that this government can, has and will make mistakes. If we don't have a credible opposition we're more likely to have even more poor governance and bad legislation. I also would like a choice as to where to lend my vote.
    I love the crocodile tears from PBTories about the lack of real opposition, but who then start getting outraged when the Tories do in fact face opposition from the House of Lords (opposition on things which the Tories didn't get a mandate for in the election, to boot).
    But it is a problem when the Leader of the Opposition is a total jerk.
    My point was I think some of these people aren't being truthful when they claim they want "an effective opposition", since often the very same people start claiming how outrageous it is when they do face an effective opposition from the Lords.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Danny565 said:

    John_M said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    I've said repeatedly that Corbyn is a tragedy for British politics. I'm right of centre, yet understand that this government can, has and will make mistakes. If we don't have a credible opposition we're more likely to have even more poor governance and bad legislation. I also would like a choice as to where to lend my vote.
    I love the crocodile tears from PBTories about the lack of real opposition, but who then start getting outraged when the Tories do in fact face opposition from the House of Lords (opposition on things which the Tories didn't get a mandate for in the election, to boot).
    £12bn of welfare cuts was in the manifesto.

    When will the left stop bleating about the plight of the 16 hour a week mob? This policy change would have helped encourage them into FTE.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,292
    Danny565 said:

    I have to say, I take a harder line than Nick regarding some of these whining Labour MPs.

    I do not pay my subscription money every year simply so that these people have cushy jobs with no strings attached - I pay so that my politics are represented, and I'm not going to be shy about demanding certain things (such as OPPOSING THE GOVERNMENT in the Commons when right-wing things are proposed) in return for the privilege we are granting to them.

    Like they are today by running away to Oldham because they can't agree on something as fundamental as our nuclear deterrent?

    Worst. Opposition. Ever.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr. 565, can you not see the difference between wanting the government holding to account by a credible alternative government [subsequently to be a valid choice at the ballot box], and being greatly concerned that a recently elected government has had a finance measure voted down by the unelected Upper House?

    Come on, old bean, you're not a silly sausage.

    Miss Plato, that's nothing. The weirdest fetish I ever heard/saw was, and I kid you not, a blinking fetish.

    I can't even begin to imagine what that's about.

    It's when you walk into a chemist, ask for some cough medicine, blinking furiously because you really want condoms.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JohnRentoul: First Dave Prentis of Unison, now Len McCluskey of Unite https://t.co/FaZLdmcpEs
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,121
    Danny565 said:

    John_M said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    I've said repeatedly that Corbyn is a tragedy for British politics. I'm right of centre, yet understand that this government can, has and will make mistakes. If we don't have a credible opposition we're more likely to have even more poor governance and bad legislation. I also would like a choice as to where to lend my vote.
    I love the crocodile tears from PBTories about the lack of real opposition, but who then start getting outraged when the Tories do in fact face opposition from the House of Lords (opposition on things which the Tories didn't get a mandate for in the election, to boot).
    If you want to talk mandate, you'll be able to tell me what mandate the HoL has for votes for 16 and 17 year olds in the Referendum....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    I saw a very peculiar docu about adult male fans of MLP who went to conventions aimed at them and the thousands they spent on giant MLPs - called things like Perfect Princess Sparkle Diamond.

    Whomever came up with the idea is a very rich person indeed.

    Sean_F said:

    No one bought me a My Little Pony. I'm not sure I'll ever overcome the stress. I may write an article for the Guardian.

    My unicorn didn't fart rainbows either - is there no end to this child abuse?

    Anorak said:

    John_M said:

    What the actual fuck is a "trigger warning"?

    If you've been abused as a child, or raped, then an article about child abuse or rape might cause flashbacks and emotional trauma. Therefore, people have started pressing for 'Trigger warning' to be posted prominently above said article.
    But, as ever, the need of some to prove oneself more sensitive to the differences of others (I am not using the phrase virtue signalling come hell or high water), has meant warnings being put on articles on muggings, assaults, divorce, loss of a family member, war, terrorist attacks, loss of virginity, paper cuts, and cakes not rising. Basically anything not about kittens or unicorns.
    Unicorns! Why, oh why, did you have to mention unicorns?

    *shudders*


    Strange as it may seem, My Little Pony has inspired thousands of pornographic fanfics online.
    Bronies.
    Almost the same level of debauchery as Conservative Party conference.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2015

    Moses_ said:

    Official Rubik's cube record broken. 4.9 seconds to solve.
    Not Ed Millibands week really.....
    :lol:

    This is a really dull question. How do they ensure that the starting point for each record attempt is fair and comparable. I presume it is some random starting point, because otherwise there wouldn't be any solving involved, but how to they ensure that one random starting point is no harder than another?
    There was an interview about this on the radio today.

    The completer is given a period of time to observe the cube, then places it on a surface. They then places both hands on electronic starting mats. On the command, they complete and then the timer stops when both hands are back down.

    I don't know about the precise configuration of the colours, but that seems like they've given it some thought.
    Randomised. Used to be scrambled out of sight (i.e. under the table) to stop the current mix affecting the choice of the next random turn.

    It's a purely mechanical process to solve at the highest level. You learn a few score algorithms for each configuration at each stage. Then you learn to recognise the config quickly, and execute the appropriate sequence quickly.

    Breaking the record takes a great deal of luck, mostly in the exact configuration of the bottom layer, as there is a lot of variability in the algorithms from there.
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    Mr. B, surely that's a speech impediment? Or an accent issue?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6IBiR9m3vY

    Mr. 565, an Opposition that isn't totally demented would be nice.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: First Dave Prentis of Unison, now Len McCluskey of Unite https://t.co/FaZLdmcpEs

    Tic Toc.

    'Bing Bong. Mr Watson, please report for duty...'
  • Options
    Danny565 said:

    I love the crocodile tears from PBTories about the lack of real opposition, but who then start getting outraged when the Tories do in fact face opposition from the House of Lords (opposition on things which the Tories didn't get a mandate for in the election, to boot).

    Like votes at 16/17, you mean?
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.
    TGOHF said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    Nobody involved in the Party for more than 5 minutes could have failed to notice that he was unelectable, would be unable to command loyalty, and was surrounded by ideologically-driven men (and they are nearly all men) who cared more about imposing their views on the party than winning elections.
    Apart from Nick Palmer ....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Topically I have a 2016 projection for a Russian contract in my left hand, and a Turkish one in my right.
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    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: First Dave Prentis of Unison, now Len McCluskey of Unite https://t.co/FaZLdmcpEs

    Will it be the unions who pull him down, irrespective of what the members think?
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited November 2015
    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    IIRC, Nick said he wouldn't be standing again. I think he now feels free to say what he thinks. It isn't that surprising, though it does show a certain ingratitude to the philosophy which made him electable (nothing personal about Nick, just an observation about Broxtowe).
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,419

    Didn't the Russian military expect some form of resistance from a variety of quarters with different objectives from them? I thought it was the US who specialised in an unrealistic expectation of universal acclaim.

    In what way do you feel they should have responded differently to this?
    Not having an inside hotline to what actually went on, it's hard for me to say how the Kremlin should respond. They haven't had a great track record of respecting international airspace so they may not have been saints on this occasion either. Equally, the Turks have their own agenda in the area which they are no doubt going to pursue. For now I'm prepared to wait and see how this unfolds before making any snap judgements.

    But that wasn't my point. My point was that going on military adventures in pursuit of la gloire has risks. Finding that you get shot back at is the most obvious one.
    Yes, but you've not provided anything to support to your notion that they didn't expect resistance or opposition. We can only go by their response which so far has been measured in the extreme.
    What options do they really have against the Turks in practice? The Turks too are capable of making life very awkward for the Russians if they so choose.
    Another rather odd post from you bearing little relation to the matter in hand. I can't make anything of this except classify it as rather silly peevish jowl wobbling against the Russians when you've really got nothing to condemn them for.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    TGOHF said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    Nobody involved in the Party for more than 5 minutes could have failed to notice that he was unelectable, would be unable to command loyalty, and was surrounded by ideologically-driven men (and they are nearly all men) who cared more about imposing their views on the party than winning elections.
    Apart from Nick Palmer ....
    You highlight the "only drones need apply" situation - yet other more independent minded Labour MPs have survived without ever backing Brown, Ed or JC so publicly.


  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,997
    tyson said:

    It strikes me that someone in Turkey has made a monumental balls up- I can't for the life of me understand the strategic point in taking out a Russian fighter plane inching over Turkish airspace.

    Equally, the airliner over Ukraine was a monumental balls up- the separatists clearly though the aircraft was Ukranian military.

    Because the plane was coming out of an active warzone, and I think is of the same type that the Syrian air force use.

    I can't remember this sort of anger when Turkey shot down two Syrian jets for doing the same thing. Yet Russia did not seem to pause to think: "Hang on, our pilots have done it before and luckily got away with it; perhaps we shouldn't do it again. Just in case."

    There are also reports that a jet approaching Turkish airpsace locked its weapons onto a Turkish jet within Turkey a few weeks ago.

    This was an event waiting to happen.

    As an aside, it does not appear to have been 'inching over'; unless you've got a large-scale map ...

    Both sides need to de-escalate this.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IsabelHardman: Breaking: Len McCluskey is a TORY https://t.co/mFenbUdvT3
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    I doubt very much the Tories are shedding crocodile tears.

    I, as a Labour man, was more than happy when the Tory party defenestrated IDS even though I knew he was an electoral liability. The Tory leadership squabbles at the time were painful to watch.

    Ultimately, politics is tribal, but not tribal at all costs.
    Danny565 said:

    John_M said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    I've said repeatedly that Corbyn is a tragedy for British politics. I'm right of centre, yet understand that this government can, has and will make mistakes. If we don't have a credible opposition we're more likely to have even more poor governance and bad legislation. I also would like a choice as to where to lend my vote.
    I love the crocodile tears from PBTories about the lack of real opposition, but who then start getting outraged when the Tories do in fact face opposition from the House of Lords (opposition on things which the Tories didn't get a mandate for in the election, to boot).
  • Options

    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    IIRC, Nick said he wouldn't be standing again. I think he now feels free to say what he thinks. It isn't that surprising, though it does show a certain ingratitude to the philosophy which made him electable (nothing personal about Nick, just an observation about Broxtowe).
    If Nick actually thinks Broxtowe would elect him, or any other Labour candidate, with Corbyn as leader then then I'm afraid he is utterly wrong. Sourby will be in a safe seat by June 2020.
  • Options
    TGOHF said:

    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    TGOHF said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    Nobody involved in the Party for more than 5 minutes could have failed to notice that he was unelectable, would be unable to command loyalty, and was surrounded by ideologically-driven men (and they are nearly all men) who cared more about imposing their views on the party than winning elections.
    Apart from Nick Palmer ....
    You highlight the "only drones need apply" situation - yet other more independent minded Labour MPs have survived without ever backing Brown, Ed or JC so publicly.


    For that matter, Corbyn survived under Blair.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2015
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,997
    Anorak said:

    Moses_ said:

    Official Rubik's cube record broken. 4.9 seconds to solve.
    Not Ed Millibands week really.....
    :lol:

    This is a really dull question. How do they ensure that the starting point for each record attempt is fair and comparable. I presume it is some random starting point, because otherwise there wouldn't be any solving involved, but how to they ensure that one random starting point is no harder than another?
    There was an interview about this on the radio today.

    The completer is given a period of time to observe the cube, then places it on a surface. They then places both hands on electronic starting mats. On the command, they complete and then the timer stops when both hands are back down.

    I don't know about the precise configuration of the colours, but that seems like they've given it some thought.
    Randomised. Used to be scrambled out of sight (i.e. under the table) to stop the current mix affecting the choice of the next random turn.

    It's a purely mechanical process to solve at the highest level. You learn a few score algorithms for each configuration at each stage. Then you learn to recognise the config quickly, and execute the appropriate sequence quickly.

    Breaking the record takes a great deal of luck, mostly in the exact configuration of the bottom layer, as there is a lot of variability in the algorithms from there.
    Still not as fast as those lads at ARM. They did have a little help though ... :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0pFZG7j5cE
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    TGOHF said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    Nobody involved in the Party for more than 5 minutes could have failed to notice that he was unelectable, would be unable to command loyalty, and was surrounded by ideologically-driven men (and they are nearly all men) who cared more about imposing their views on the party than winning elections.
    Apart from Nick Palmer ....
    You highlight the "only drones need apply" situation - yet other more independent minded Labour MPs have survived without ever backing Brown, Ed or JC so publicly.


    For that matter, Corbyn survived under Blair.
    Bingo - someone gets it.
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    Mr. JS, some people just like whining for attention.

    The dog does that sometimes. She gets ignored, otherwise instead of her being trained, she's training me that I can be summoned by whining.
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    TGOHF said:

    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    TGOHF said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    Nobody involved in the Party for more than 5 minutes could have failed to notice that he was unelectable, would be unable to command loyalty, and was surrounded by ideologically-driven men (and they are nearly all men) who cared more about imposing their views on the party than winning elections.
    Apart from Nick Palmer ....
    You highlight the "only drones need apply" situation - yet other more independent minded Labour MPs have survived without ever backing Brown, Ed or JC so publicly.


    "He will make an excellent Drone!" - Sgt. Maj. Data.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    OK- he might of said he won't be standing, but politicians say lots of things. And he might well be keeping his options open (even subconsciously)- but to publicly show disloyalty against a Corbynite local membership would severely hamper any attempts of a comeback.

    There is no other rational explanation in my head why Nick would be supportive of Corbyn.

    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    IIRC, Nick said he wouldn't be standing again. I think he now feels free to say what he thinks. It isn't that surprising, though it does show a certain ingratitude to the philosophy which made him electable (nothing personal about Nick, just an observation about Broxtowe).
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JamieRoss7: Labour MPs are currently abstaining, voting for, and voting against Trident all at once. #StraightTalkingHonestPolitics
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,335

    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    IIRC, Nick said he wouldn't be standing again. I think he now feels free to say what he thinks. It isn't that surprising, though it does show a certain ingratitude to the philosophy which made him electable (nothing personal about Nick, just an observation about Broxtowe).
    I'm not standing for Broxtowe again, but I was never secretive to Broxtowe voters about being a former communist with left-wing views who nonetheless felt that Labour offered reasonable progress. I can dig out the relevant emails if you like. People were pretty relaxed about it, so long as I was personally civil and open-minded. It's only us politics nerds who think in strict left-right axes.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Dragged back from 1940 by Herself returning from shopping, I have been catching up whilst sipping a cup of tea and nibbling on some early Stollen Cake (an absolute snip at £2.59 from Aldi - their prices are insanely low), and am surprised to see that SeanT managed, without being contradicted, to claim that Algebra came from the Babylonians.

    I mean the clue is in the name, FFS. Algebra, Al-Gebra, or actually "Al-jabr wa'l muqabalah", a mathematical text book written by a bloke called Mohammed ibn-Musa al-Khwarizmi (from whose name and work we also get the term Algorithm) in the 7th century.

    Actually it has to be said that al-Khwarizmi was building on the work of Diophantus (a greek from 3rd century AD and who gave us Diophantine Equations) and Brahmagupta (an Indian Mathematician who is credited with inventing zero and who lived around 600AD).

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    I see that the shadow defence secretary is not attending the SNP debate on Trident: proof that Eagle does not strain at Nats.
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    Mr. P, sounds fine. Like the Lib Dems on tuition fees.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Watch Jeremy Corbyn's entire front bench sneak out of the Commons during the Defence Statement.
    https://t.co/NN40N7iOIO
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    Mr. JS, some people just like whining for attention.

    The dog does that sometimes. She gets ignored, otherwise instead of her being trained, she's training me that I can be summoned by whining.

    She must be a teenager (in dog years...!)
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Danny565 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    I have to say, I take a harder line than Nick regarding some of these whining Labour MPs.

    I do not pay my subscription money every year simply so that these people have cushy jobs with no strings attached - I pay so that my politics are represented, and I'm not going to be shy about demanding certain things (such as OPPOSING THE GOVERNMENT in the Commons when right-wing things are proposed) in return for the privilege we are granting to them.

    I dare say the voters in the constituencies of these MPs have equally strong views about what their MP should or should not be doing. But, hey, they don't pay a subscription so who cares about them, eh? After all, it was only their votes which got the MP elected.

    If the MP feels their election owes more to them personally than to the Labour Party banner (and the money that such a banner gives them(, then they are free to quit and stand in a by-election as an independent anytime - then they would be completely free of any demands from people like me.
    You want a special privilege to be given to your views because you pay and other voters don't.

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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    That makes sense to me.
    I guess they are de-escalating under the wire and the gaze of the media.

    The footage of Syrian militants shouting Allahu Akbar at the sight of the stricken plane, and then the subsequent killing of the pilots does little for Turkey though.

    I'be be quite happy you know to have the use of Allahu Akbar made illegal- it is just incendiary and quite nauseating shouted out in the context of people dying. Something for Theresa to get her teeth stuck into.

    tyson said:

    It strikes me that someone in Turkey has made a monumental balls up- I can't for the life of me understand the strategic point in taking out a Russian fighter plane inching over Turkish airspace.

    Equally, the airliner over Ukraine was a monumental balls up- the separatists clearly though the aircraft was Ukranian military.

    Because the plane was coming out of an active warzone, and I think is of the same type that the Syrian air force use.

    I can't remember this sort of anger when Turkey shot down two Syrian jets for doing the same thing. Yet Russia did not seem to pause to think: "Hang on, our pilots have done it before and luckily got away with it; perhaps we shouldn't do it again. Just in case."

    There are also reports that a jet approaching Turkish airpsace locked its weapons onto a Turkish jet within Turkey a few weeks ago.

    This was an event waiting to happen.

    As an aside, it does not appear to have been 'inching over'; unless you've got a large-scale map ...

    Both sides need to de-escalate this.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. JS, some people just like whining for attention.

    The dog does that sometimes. She gets ignored, otherwise instead of her being trained, she's training me that I can be summoned by whining.

    Ignoring a poor puppy because she wants attention! You are a cruel heartless brute, Mr. Dancer, and serve you right if she turns to more destructive forms of behaviour in an attempt to get you to notice her.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr. JS, some people just like whining for attention.

    The dog does that sometimes. She gets ignored, otherwise instead of her being trained, she's training me that I can be summoned by whining.

    Heidi comes and sits by my chair, and looks at me intently. If that doesn't work after a few seconds the paw arrives on my knee. After a few seconds it disappears and then it's back, on the off-chance I didn't notice it before. If it still doesn't work, she will stand up looking at me, wagging her tail so it bangs against the sofa. It's only at this point that the slight whimper comes out. This is all because she wants a biscuit.

    On the other hand, when she wants to go out she just goes to the door and stands there waiting.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Woke up this morning to see WWIII has inched closer....
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCJLandale: Sources say 14 Labour MPs defied Jeremy Corbyn & voted for Trident to be renewed;
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    Mr. StClare, indeed, worsened by the fact she isn't yet spayed and has an excess of teeth (literally, both her adult and puppy fangs are in residence, side-by-side. Both their removal and her spaying will occur tomorrow).

    Mr. Llama, the hound gets quite enough attention. A firm hand is needed to help teach a pup to leave someone alone when they're eating, or suchlike. Give a dog all the attention it wants, whenever it wants it, and you'll find that the dog owns you, rather than vice versa.

    [Her predecessor's predecessor did once utterly destroy a light wooden bin, spreading its many pieces across the floor. In that hound's defence, she was a rescue dog and came from an unsuitable previous owner. Also, Kai chewed through the burglar alarm wire when he was a pup].
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: Jeremy Corbyn MP, Leader of the Labour Party, today appointed Kevin Slocombe as his Head of Media.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Danny565 said:

    John_M said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    I've said repeatedly that Corbyn is a tragedy for British politics. I'm right of centre, yet understand that this government can, has and will make mistakes. If we don't have a credible opposition we're more likely to have even more poor governance and bad legislation. I also would like a choice as to where to lend my vote.
    I love the crocodile tears from PBTories about the lack of real opposition, but who then start getting outraged when the Tories do in fact face opposition from the House of Lords (opposition on things which the Tories didn't get a mandate for in the election, to boot).
    Oh dear: back of the class for you until you understand the difference between an Opposition party elected by the voters and an unelected second chamber with no connection to the voters at all.
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    Mr. StClare, indeed, worsened by the fact she isn't yet spayed and has an excess of teeth (literally, both her adult and puppy fangs are in residence, side-by-side. Both their removal and her spaying will occur tomorrow).

    Mr. Llama, the hound gets quite enough attention. A firm hand is needed to help teach a pup to leave someone alone when they're eating, or suchlike. Give a dog all the attention it wants, whenever it wants it, and you'll find that the dog owns you, rather than vice versa.

    [Her predecessor's predecessor did once utterly destroy a light wooden bin, spreading its many pieces across the floor. In that hound's defence, she was a rescue dog and came from an unsuitable previous owner. Also, Kai chewed through the burglar alarm wire when he was a pup].

    One dog we had chewed the door off the tumble drier...
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    What the actual fuck is a "trigger warning"?

    If you've been abused as a child, or raped, then an article about child abuse or rape might cause flashbacks and emotional trauma. Therefore, people have started pressing for 'Trigger warning' to be posted prominently above said article.
    o_O

    I've had a brief google of the phrase, and it seems to be a crock of horse-shit.
    I'm not a fan. It seems to be another way to be passive-aggressive - basically, unless you provide me with a full and comprehensive list of all your possible triggers, 'tis but a matter of time before I offend you.
    The areshole in me would want to make a point of being as offensive as possible if people start to whittle on about safe-spaces and triggers...
    Well me too. Any adult precious about not being offended deserves to be offended as often as possible.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Jeremy Corbyn MP, Leader of the Labour Party, today appointed Kevin Slocombe as his Head of Media.

    Did he inherit his grandmother's pussy?
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    On a more serious note events in Turkey/Syria have taken a very sinister turn today, heaven knows where this is all leading.

    On a less serious note.

    We somehow know that this is going to be good for the SNP.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://order-order.com/people/kevin-slocombe/
    Jeremy Corbyn has finally found his new spin doctor. Communication Workers Union spinner Kevin Slocombe is wasting no time in trying to hide awkward stories from the past, already deleting his Twitter account. Turns out he’s not a fan of Jamie Reed:
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Jeremy Corbyn MP, Leader of the Labour Party, today appointed Kevin Slocombe as his Head of Media.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab):
    Does the Secretary of State agree that, if we want to keep Britain safe, it is not a question of choosing between renewing our nuclear deterrent and taking the necessary action against ISIL—given that both are vital—and that it would be foolhardy, not to say arrogant, to believe that anyone in the House can predict the risks and threats that Britain will face in the next 30 or 40 years?

    Michael Fallon:
    I could not have put it better.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,121

    written by a bloke called Mohammed ibn-Musa al-Khwarizmi (from whose name and work we also get the term Algorithm)

    So it's not a rhythm named after Al Gore?

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    edited November 2015
    *cough*

    Slightly awkward to self-promote, but those irked by the professionally offended will hopefully buy Sir Edric's Temple/Treasure in early 2016, when publication is due. Delightful and politically incorrect humour abounds within.

    Mr. Barber, not sure I can beat that, to be honest. Kai the dog had immensely powerful jaws (probably part bull terrier), and could destroy most hard chew toys within a few seconds, but fortunately he wasn't much of a chewer.

    Edited extra bit: Sir Edric's Temple is still out now, but please do wait until 2016 [it's a momentum/sales figure thingummyjig].
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,121
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Jeremy Corbyn MP, Leader of the Labour Party, today appointed Kevin Slocombe as his Head of Media.


    Please tell us there's a Missus Slocombe?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Pulpstar said:

    Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab):
    Does the Secretary of State agree that, if we want to keep Britain safe, it is not a question of choosing between renewing our nuclear deterrent and taking the necessary action against ISIL—given that both are vital—and that it would be foolhardy, not to say arrogant, to believe that anyone in the House can predict the risks and threats that Britain will face in the next 30 or 40 years?

    Michael Fallon:
    I could not have put it better.

    Liz Kendall, the Tory backbencher? No surprise there :p
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Scott_P said:

    @JamieRoss7: Labour MPs are currently abstaining, voting for, and voting against Trident all at once. #StraightTalkingHonestPolitics

    It's coherent, attractive politics. (Copyright: Nick Palmer).
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    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    IIRC, Nick said he wouldn't be standing again. I think he now feels free to say what he thinks. It isn't that surprising, though it does show a certain ingratitude to the philosophy which made him electable (nothing personal about Nick, just an observation about Broxtowe).
    I'm not standing for Broxtowe again, but I was never secretive to Broxtowe voters about being a former communist with left-wing views who nonetheless felt that Labour offered reasonable progress. I can dig out the relevant emails if you like. People were pretty relaxed about it, so long as I was personally civil and open-minded. It's only us politics nerds who think in strict left-right axes.

    I'd love to see your emails about supporting Stop the War being consulted on Labour defence and foreign policy.

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    RobD said:

    Woke up this morning to see WWIII has inched closer....

    Don't be silly
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. StClare, indeed, worsened by the fact she isn't yet spayed and has an excess of teeth (literally, both her adult and puppy fangs are in residence, side-by-side. Both their removal and her spaying will occur tomorrow).

    Mr. Llama, the hound gets quite enough attention. A firm hand is needed to help teach a pup to leave someone alone when they're eating, or suchlike. Give a dog all the attention it wants, whenever it wants it, and you'll find that the dog owns you, rather than vice versa.

    [Her predecessor's predecessor did once utterly destroy a light wooden bin, spreading its many pieces across the floor. In that hound's defence, she was a rescue dog and came from an unsuitable previous owner. Also, Kai chewed through the burglar alarm wire when he was a pup].

    Perhaps because I have only ever lived with cats and people I have never got into this ownership thing. Similarly I have trouble understanding the concept of pets. An animal who lives with me must earn his or her keep and we will come to a mutual understanding through learning to communicate with each other (Mr. B provides a fine example of mutual understanding and communication up thread).
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JamieRoss7: Labour MPs are currently abstaining, voting for, and voting against Trident all at once. #StraightTalkingHonestPolitics

    It's coherent, attractive politics. (Copyright: Nick Palmer).
    As a communist, presumably Nick doesn't believe in copyright.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    Woke up this morning to see WWIII has inched closer....

    Don't be silly
    Yeah, a bit tongue in cheek, but it does represent a step in the wrong direction after the recent thaw with Russia.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'It's only us politics nerds who think in strict left-right axes.'

    Well indeed - I one met a very elderly German lady who remarked how handsome and well-mannered the Fuhrer was.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,121
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCJLandale: Sources say 14 Labour MPs defied Jeremy Corbyn & voted for Trident to be renewed;

    The Corbynquisition is being convened as we speak.

    Who's got the comfy chair?
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    Mr. Llama, indeed, I did elaborate a bit because I know you've not had a dog. They are less independent than cats, but you can actually train them to do things (waiting, sitting, going down, giving paw, hunting [I mean searching for something rather than actual hunting] and so on).
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    Mr. StClare, indeed, worsened by the fact she isn't yet spayed and has an excess of teeth (literally, both her adult and puppy fangs are in residence, side-by-side. Both their removal and her spaying will occur tomorrow).

    Mr. Llama, the hound gets quite enough attention. A firm hand is needed to help teach a pup to leave someone alone when they're eating, or suchlike. Give a dog all the attention it wants, whenever it wants it, and you'll find that the dog owns you, rather than vice versa.

    [Her predecessor's predecessor did once utterly destroy a light wooden bin, spreading its many pieces across the floor. In that hound's defence, she was a rescue dog and came from an unsuitable previous owner. Also, Kai chewed through the burglar alarm wire when he was a pup].

    Perhaps because I have only ever lived with cats and people I have never got into this ownership thing. Similarly I have trouble understanding the concept of pets. An animal who lives with me must earn his or her keep and we will come to a mutual understanding through learning to communicate with each other (Mr. B provides a fine example of mutual understanding and communication up thread).
    Your moggy is not a pet. – it appears to live on a diet of warmed up milk and north Atlantic prawns so technically is a very expensive house guest that doesn’t help with the washing up.
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    Mr. Mark, there is no comfyness in the puritanical household.

    Jeremy sits on a spike. His wife sits on Jeremy. Two spikes would be a capitalist extravagance, encouraging corporate spike exploitation of indigenous peoples in south-east Asia.
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    Danny565 said:

    I have to say, I take a harder line than Nick regarding some of these whining Labour MPs.

    I do not pay my subscription money every year simply so that these people have cushy jobs with no strings attached - I pay so that my politics are represented, and I'm not going to be shy about demanding certain things (such as OPPOSING THE GOVERNMENT in the Commons when right-wing things are proposed) in return for the privilege we are granting to them.

    In other words, as long as you feel good about it all, sod the voters who would prefer a credible alternative to this Tory government; better you get to be listened to than Labour gets into power without your views being reflected. This is why Labour is currently doomed to increasing irrelevance.

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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    I find the way dogs have evolved to make themselves understood by us utterly fascinating. Humans, like always, dictate the terms of communication. Dogs have understood this and reciprocated. That for me is why they are more intelligent than cats who communicate with us much less.

    Mr. JS, some people just like whining for attention.

    The dog does that sometimes. She gets ignored, otherwise instead of her being trained, she's training me that I can be summoned by whining.

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,121

    Mr. Llama, indeed, I did elaborate a bit because I know you've not had a dog. They are less independent than cats, but you can actually train them to do things (waiting, sitting, going down, giving paw, hunting [I mean searching for something rather than actual hunting] and so on).

    My dog used to love sticking his head out the passenger-side car window. Couldn't stop him, because he'd taught himself how the electric windows worked....
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    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    IIRC, Nick said he wouldn't be standing again. I think he now feels free to say what he thinks. It isn't that surprising, though it does show a certain ingratitude to the philosophy which made him electable (nothing personal about Nick, just an observation about Broxtowe).
    I'm not standing for Broxtowe again, but I was never secretive to Broxtowe voters about being a former communist with left-wing views who nonetheless felt that Labour offered reasonable progress. I can dig out the relevant emails if you like. People were pretty relaxed about it, so long as I was personally civil and open-minded. It's only us politics nerds who think in strict left-right axes.
    I certainly didn't mean to suggest you'd been disingenuous to your electorate; all the evidence from your years on here is that you've been very open (to those who are attuned enough to listen!). But I still doubt you'd ever have won Broxtowe without Blair. (OTOH, you might well have got yourself a safer seat :-) )
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,419
    Pulpstar said:

    Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab):
    Does the Secretary of State agree that, if we want to keep Britain safe, it is not a question of choosing between renewing our nuclear deterrent and taking the necessary action against ISIL—given that both are vital—and that it would be foolhardy, not to say arrogant, to believe that anyone in the House can predict the risks and threats that Britain will face in the next 30 or 40 years?

    Michael Fallon:
    I could not have put it better.

    Except it is a question of putting however many billions of our defence budget in one basket that de facto means we will be less equipped to deal with threats that present greater risks.

    A case of twat answering twat to be honest.
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    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    TGOHF said:

    tyson said:

    Blair's third way involving stripping the Labour party of ideology and re-positioning it as a pragmatic party of Govt was always going to hit stormy waters once Labour lost power. But who could have predicted its disastrous choice of leaders and just what kind of pickle it has got itself into?

    I really struggle with Nick's personal approach to Corbyn. Although I am a member of the Labour Party and will continue to maintain my membership, I couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. I just couldn't. I would much rather Dr Death himself, Osborne as PM, or even the frightening May, or narcissistic Boris. Not even close for me.

    Note to Nick- I am a statist, left liberal- so if Corbyn has that effect on me, what kind of effect is he going to have on moderate swing voters when the spotlight is on him?

    It depresses me beyond anything that 71% of Labour members care more about policies than power. The political equivalent of ISIS- suicidal, nihilistic politics.

    I hope Labour lose Oldham, and every other election it participates in until Corbyn leaves or is ousted.

    It just doesn't feel right to have such disparity in British politics- it needs checks and balances. I ask the Tories here- OK you had a few days of fun when Corbyn was elected- but do you really want a politics where the opposition is so enfeebled? Even in the darkest days of IDS, the Tory party still had stature and gravitas; that is much more than you can say for the Labour Party now.

    Nobody involved in the Party for more than 5 minutes could have failed to notice that he was unelectable, would be unable to command loyalty, and was surrounded by ideologically-driven men (and they are nearly all men) who cared more about imposing their views on the party than winning elections.
    Apart from Nick Palmer ....
    You highlight the "only drones need apply" situation - yet other more independent minded Labour MPs have survived without ever backing Brown, Ed or JC so publicly.


    For that matter, Corbyn survived under Blair.
    Bingo - someone gets it.
    Harold Wilson invented pragmatism. Blair just read from his play book.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, indeed, I did elaborate a bit because I know you've not had a dog. They are less independent than cats, but you can actually train them to do things (waiting, sitting, going down, giving paw, hunting [I mean searching for something rather than actual hunting] and so on).

    I know I have a lot to learn when Thomas passes through the big cat flap and we become a doggie household.
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    Scott_P said:

    @BBCJLandale: Sources say 14 Labour MPs defied Jeremy Corbyn & voted for Trident to be renewed;

    The Corbynquisition is being convened as we speak.

    Who's got the comfy chair?
    "Dr. Corbyn - or How I Learnt to Start Worrying and Hate the Bomb"
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    I note noone knows, cares or mentions what the Lib Dems have done on the Trident vote today.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @janinegibson: The union bosses who backed Corbyn are on the turn... https://t.co/faGZh7zl9r
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    Pulpstar said:

    I note noone knows, cares or mentions what the Lib Dems have done on the Trident vote today.

    You mean there are actually LibDems in Parliament?
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    Pulpstar said:

    Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab):
    Does the Secretary of State agree that, if we want to keep Britain safe, it is not a question of choosing between renewing our nuclear deterrent and taking the necessary action against ISIL—given that both are vital—and that it would be foolhardy, not to say arrogant, to believe that anyone in the House can predict the risks and threats that Britain will face in the next 30 or 40 years?

    Michael Fallon:
    I could not have put it better.

    Except it is a question of putting however many billions of our defence budget in one basket that de facto means we will be less equipped to deal with threats that present greater risks.

    A case of twat answering twat to be honest.
    Spending on Trident is expected to be £31bn vs £178 bn on various programmes announced yesterday. Sounds full spectrum approach to me.

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,121
    Scott_P said:

    @janinegibson: The union bosses who backed Corbyn are on the turn... https://t.co/faGZh7zl9r

    OK, who had nine weeks in the sweepstake?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    edited November 2015
    Mr. Mark, that's both concerning and amusing.

    The current dog learnt to give paw almost immediately. She's quite small, which may prove a good thing (never had a dog that worked out how to open doors, and would prefer it to stay that way).

    Mr. Tyson, can't comment on cats, but there is a lot of communication between people and dogs. It can vary a bit, depending on the dog's personality and intelligence [mind you, that's true of people too...].

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Llama, to be honest, most of it's just common sense.

    You'll need a bit of patience in the earliest days of house-training (a couple of weeks waking up to clean dog mess every day wasn't great, but Kai sometimes had volcanic diarrhoea, which would take 1-2 hours to clean up, so it wasn't too bad). By instinct, most dogs will, fairly early on, go for long grass, or at least off the beaten path.

    Worth researching breed just a little so you have an idea about size and temperament (one suspects a Japanese akita would not suit you). Also, get your hound spayed or castrated as early as possible. It both reduces aggression and (for male dogs definitely, unsure of bitches) increases life expectancy.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Mr. Llama, indeed, I did elaborate a bit because I know you've not had a dog. They are less independent than cats, but you can actually train them to do things (waiting, sitting, going down, giving paw, hunting [I mean searching for something rather than actual hunting] and so on).

    My dog used to love sticking his head out the passenger-side car window. Couldn't stop him, because he'd taught himself how the electric windows worked....
    Dog training?

    Look at this.

    https://www.facebook.com/santifranko/videos/789874414491374/?pnref=story
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    BBC - Explosion hits bus carrying presidential guards in Tunis, Tunisian state TV says

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-34915253

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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    Mr. StClare, indeed, worsened by the fact she isn't yet spayed and has an excess of teeth (literally, both her adult and puppy fangs are in residence, side-by-side. Both their removal and her spaying will occur tomorrow).

    Mr. Llama, the hound gets quite enough attention. A firm hand is needed to help teach a pup to leave someone alone when they're eating, or suchlike. Give a dog all the attention it wants, whenever it wants it, and you'll find that the dog owns you, rather than vice versa.

    [Her predecessor's predecessor did once utterly destroy a light wooden bin, spreading its many pieces across the floor. In that hound's defence, she was a rescue dog and came from an unsuitable previous owner. Also, Kai chewed through the burglar alarm wire when he was a pup].

    Perhaps because I have only ever lived with cats and people I have never got into this ownership thing. Similarly I have trouble understanding the concept of pets. An animal who lives with me must earn his or her keep and we will come to a mutual understanding through learning to communicate with each other (Mr. B provides a fine example of mutual understanding and communication up thread).
    Well, obviously, if you live with cats you don't understand the concept of ownership. Cats don't have owners. They have staff.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Jamie Reed, Ben Bradshaw, Liz Kendall so far as definitely in the 14 from what I can work out.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. StClare, indeed, worsened by the fact she isn't yet spayed and has an excess of teeth (literally, both her adult and puppy fangs are in residence, side-by-side. Both their removal and her spaying will occur tomorrow).

    Mr. Llama, the hound gets quite enough attention. A firm hand is needed to help teach a pup to leave someone alone when they're eating, or suchlike. Give a dog all the attention it wants, whenever it wants it, and you'll find that the dog owns you, rather than vice versa.

    [Her predecessor's predecessor did once utterly destroy a light wooden bin, spreading its many pieces across the floor. In that hound's defence, she was a rescue dog and came from an unsuitable previous owner. Also, Kai chewed through the burglar alarm wire when he was a pup].

    Perhaps because I have only ever lived with cats and people I have never got into this ownership thing. Similarly I have trouble understanding the concept of pets. An animal who lives with me must earn his or her keep and we will come to a mutual understanding through learning to communicate with each other (Mr. B provides a fine example of mutual understanding and communication up thread).
    Your moggy is not a pet. – it appears to live on a diet of warmed up milk and north Atlantic prawns so technically is a very expensive house guest that doesn’t help with the washing up.
    That is an outrageous twisting of the truth, Mr, StClare. True, Thomas does not help with the washing up but he does not live on a diet of warmed milk and North Atlantic Prawns. He only has warmed milk at bedtime and he also eats roast chicken, roast lamb, salmon flakes some cheesy cat biscuits and occasionally, if he is in the mood, some of those little tins of cat food.

    However, in return he does valuable service about the house and garden. He earns his keep and is not just a pet or even a guest. He works for his living.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    I can't believe how intelligent Trotsky is. She once swam across a canal, and walked 2 miles to get home- a walk she had only done once many months before. She remembers every single place where she has seen a cat, even months later- so our walk is punctuated by her checking out her cat seen spots. Last week she pulled up in terror, and refused to budge- something she only ever does when goes to the vets of the groomers. I couldn't understand why, and then remembered I had taken her to a groomers around there over 3 years before. I'd long forgotten, but Trotsky clearly hadn't.

    Mr. Llama, indeed, I did elaborate a bit because I know you've not had a dog. They are less independent than cats, but you can actually train them to do things (waiting, sitting, going down, giving paw, hunting [I mean searching for something rather than actual hunting] and so on).

    My dog used to love sticking his head out the passenger-side car window. Couldn't stop him, because he'd taught himself how the electric windows worked....
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Pulpstar said:

    Jamie Reed, Ben Bradshaw, Liz Kendall so far as definitely in the 14 from what I can work out.

    John Woodcock, one would assume?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited November 2015
    Labour 14 (For):

    Barron; Bradshaw; Creagh; Evans; Fitzpatrick; Kendall; Leslie; Moon; Owen; Reed; Reynolds; Smith; Stuart; Woodcock

    Labour 6 (Against)

    Godsiff; Campbell; Hopkins; Stringer; Skinner; Robinson.

    I assume the others, including Corbyn don't know what they stand for (or against)
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "An explosion has hit a bus carrying presidential guards in Tunisia's capital, Tunis, state TV reports.
    The explosion had caused deaths, the interior ministry said, the AFP news agency reports.
    The cause of the blast was not immediately clear."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-34915253
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    tyson said:

    I can't believe how intelligent Trotsky is.

    She can't be that bright - with a name like that I assume she voted for Corbyn.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,299

    tyson said:

    I think we should be fair to Nick. Does he intend to fight Broxtowe again? If the Broxtowe local membership has turned decisively to Corbyn, his only hope for re-selection would be to publicly show loyalty. And better Nick fighting Broxtowe than a Corbynite headbanger.

    IIRC, Nick said he wouldn't be standing again. I think he now feels free to say what he thinks. It isn't that surprising, though it does show a certain ingratitude to the philosophy which made him electable (nothing personal about Nick, just an observation about Broxtowe).
    I'm not standing for Broxtowe again, but I was never secretive to Broxtowe voters about being a former communist with left-wing views who nonetheless felt that Labour offered reasonable progress. I can dig out the relevant emails if you like. People were pretty relaxed about it, so long as I was personally civil and open-minded. It's only us politics nerds who think in strict left-right axes.
    "It's only us political nerds who think in strict left-right axes."

    Exactly.

    Jezza and his fans think in strict left-right axes. Thing is, the overwhelming majority of the UK don't.

    It is precisely Jezza's (and it seems your) unwillingness to realise that the debate has moved on from strict left-right axes that is the cause of the farce that the Labour Party has become.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Good point. The LD's dive into political irrelevance has been quick, brutal and all pervasive. I cannot see anyway back for them for ten years at the least, and possibly many more.
    Pulpstar said:

    I note noone knows, cares or mentions what the Lib Dems have done on the Trident vote today.

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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Cyclefree said:

    Mr. StClare, indeed, worsened by the fact she isn't yet spayed and has an excess of teeth (literally, both her adult and puppy fangs are in residence, side-by-side. Both their removal and her spaying will occur tomorrow).

    Mr. Llama, the hound gets quite enough attention. A firm hand is needed to help teach a pup to leave someone alone when they're eating, or suchlike. Give a dog all the attention it wants, whenever it wants it, and you'll find that the dog owns you, rather than vice versa.

    [Her predecessor's predecessor did once utterly destroy a light wooden bin, spreading its many pieces across the floor. In that hound's defence, she was a rescue dog and came from an unsuitable previous owner. Also, Kai chewed through the burglar alarm wire when he was a pup].

    Perhaps because I have only ever lived with cats and people I have never got into this ownership thing. Similarly I have trouble understanding the concept of pets. An animal who lives with me must earn his or her keep and we will come to a mutual understanding through learning to communicate with each other (Mr. B provides a fine example of mutual understanding and communication up thread).
    Well, obviously, if you live with cats you don't understand the concept of ownership. Cats don't have owners. They have staff.

    There's another major difference between cats and dogs. I found it out from a book written by a retired Chief Medical Officer from California.

    If you die alone in your house, a dog will pine and stay close to you. A cat just needs to eat and once the food plate is empty, you're next.
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    perdix said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab):
    Does the Secretary of State agree that, if we want to keep Britain safe, it is not a question of choosing between renewing our nuclear deterrent and taking the necessary action against ISIL—given that both are vital—and that it would be foolhardy, not to say arrogant, to believe that anyone in the House can predict the risks and threats that Britain will face in the next 30 or 40 years?

    Michael Fallon:
    I could not have put it better.

    Except it is a question of putting however many billions of our defence budget in one basket that de facto means we will be less equipped to deal with threats that present greater risks.

    A case of twat answering twat to be honest.
    Spending on Trident is expected to be £31bn vs £178 bn on various programmes announced yesterday. Sounds full spectrum approach to me.

    Correct
    One thing the Corbyn phenomenon has uncovered is just how many comments are based on pure fantasy and/or a completely screwed up view of the world. Comments from lg1983 for instance are completely worthless as a basis for anything. NPXMP has emerged as the same.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,121
    People may be cancelling foreign holidays, but it is unlikely Formby is going to get any bonus from it:

    "A group of performing Christmas elves has been left "traumatised" after being attacked by a gang of teenagers.

    Entertainers Starkidz were "cornered" by the gang after a Christmas lights switch-on in Formby, Merseyside.

    The performers, including one as young as 13, were abused, with one punched and another threatened with an airgun, said the troupe's manager Jan Hayes.

    "We may not return to Formby next year," she said."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-34911239
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    Labour 14 (For):

    Barron; Bradshaw; Creagh; Evans; Fitzpatrick; Kendall; Leslie; Moon; Owen; Reed; Reynolds; Smith; Stuart; Woodcock

    Labour 6 (Against)

    Godsiff; Campbell; Hopkins; Stringer; Skinner; Robinson.

    I assume the others, including Corbyn don't know what they stand for (or against)

    Ben Bradshaw - standing up for what he believes in.

    2010 Exeter : Lab maj 2,721
    2015 Exeter : Lab maj 7,183

    Bet others wish they could have performed against the tide so well.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JGForsyth: Die Welt reporting 1 of the Paris terrorists registered as a refugee in Germany, if true this will have big political implications 4 Merkel
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    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Jeremy Corbyn MP, Leader of the Labour Party, today appointed Kevin Slocombe as his Head of Media.

    I thought this was announced a couple of months ago? He is another union bod.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    edited November 2015

    Mr. Mark, that's both concerning and amusing.

    The current dog learnt to give paw almost immediately. She's quite small, which may prove a good thing (never had a dog that worked out how to open doors, and would prefer it to stay that way).

    Mr. Tyson, can't comment on cats, but there is a lot of communication between people and dogs. It can vary a bit, depending on the dog's personality and intelligence [mind you, that's true of people too...].

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Llama, to be honest, most of it's just common sense.

    You'll need a bit of patience in the earliest days of house-training (a couple of weeks waking up to clean dog mess every day wasn't great, but Kai sometimes had volcanic diarrhoea, which would take 1-2 hours to clean up, so it wasn't too bad). By instinct, most dogs will, fairly early on, go for long grass, or at least off the beaten path.

    Worth researching breed just a little so you have an idea about size and temperament (one suspects a Japanese akita would not suit you). Also, get your hound spayed or castrated as early as possible. It both reduces aggression and (for male dogs definitely, unsure of bitches) increases life expectancy.

    My hound is a mixture of English sheepdog and New Zealand Huntaway (with a touch of dingo, apparently) from a Cumbrian farm. He is a most intelligent and affectionate animal and attracts admiring glances wherever he goes. He loves car journeys, tries to round up the cats - they just look at him with amused tolerance - and sits on my feet when I am cooking. He hardly ever barks, preferring to whine when wanting to be let out. Apparently, this is a dingo trait.

    If you have teenagers in the house a dog is a very good thing because it means that there is always one sentient being who is pleased to see you.

    Edited: Plus he earns his living as he does the prewash before the plates go into the dishwasher.
This discussion has been closed.