Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LEAVE moves into lead for 1st time in ICM’s EURef tracker

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LEAVE moves into lead for 1st time in ICM’s EURef tracker

After a stormy week during which he’s come under sustained attack from the papers that were so supportive last May the latest ICM EURef poll has LEAVE taking the lead for the first time. The figures are.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2016
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119
    Sorry, Prime Minister - but Yay!!!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    AndyJS said:
    A bridge too far.
  • Options
    "LEAVE moves into lead for 1st time in ICM’s EURef tracker"
    Just what Cameron deserves. That "master strategist" Osborne seems to have learnt nothing from Crosby. Can we please have more talk about immigration from project fear.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :smiley:

    Sorry, Prime Minister - but Yay!!!

  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    If the polls are here now in Frozen February, when spring comes to Southern Europe in April and May....sheeesh.
  • Options

    Scott_P said:

    @jameskirkup: Dear @TheBMA , why is it safe for Drs to work Saturday if they get unsocial hours premium, but unsafe without? Does more pay boost safety?

    The only unsafe element for more doctors working saturdays is the effect it will have on their personal lives. More of them working at those days = less time spent with their families = more unhappiness = less safe relationships. Of course more patients will be alive and suffer less, but why would these doctors care about the patients.? The NHS is after all run for the convenience of its staff.
    I did wonder whether it was to do with scheduling at golf clubs.
  • Options
    Weak sample anecdote.
    A year ago 5 Conservative members 60 yrs+ "always voters" were 3:2 for Remain and are now 3:1 for Leave and one DK. Growing anger over the pi** poor deal.
  • Options
    It would be reckless by Cameron to hold the poll in June when he had another 18 months when the polls might turn back towards him.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I don't understand why you aren't ALEURPing the poll. Clearly puts it Remain 58%.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    And another one

    Breaking: Kristen Brekke, Adeel Ulhaq and Forhad Rahman, who helped youth join IS in Syria, jailed for 4 and a half years, 6 years & 5 years
  • Options
    Also, if Cameron thinks he will lose, won't it be more sensible to be PM for another two years, rather than either having to resign in June or being considered a failure for rest of premiership??
  • Options

    Scott_P said:

    @jameskirkup: Dear @TheBMA , why is it safe for Drs to work Saturday if they get unsocial hours premium, but unsafe without? Does more pay boost safety?

    The only unsafe element for more doctors working saturdays is the effect it will have on their personal lives. More of them working at those days = less time spent with their families = more unhappiness = less safe relationships. Of course more patients will be alive and suffer less, but why would these doctors care about the patients.? The NHS is after all run for the convenience of its staff.
    I did wonder whether it was to do with scheduling at golf clubs.
    That's the Friday problem, but you may be right for the Saturday ones. It is all about interfering in people's lifestyles. Junior doctors are mainly in that "young family" cycle of life and we should appreciate their need for maintaing their quality of life.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    It would be reckless by Cameron to hold the poll in June when he had another 18 months when the polls might turn back towards him.

    And have another 2 summers of the jungle invading the Eurotunnel terminal ?

    Any delay now and his lame duck campaign will lose its other leg.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    You think it's going to get less awful?

    Well, that's a view.

    It would be reckless by Cameron to hold the poll in June when he had another 18 months when the polls might turn back towards him.

  • Options
    LEAVE = believe in Britain
    REMAIN = believe in Brussels

    Do YOU believe in Britain?
  • Options

    And another one

    Breaking: Kristen Brekke, Adeel Ulhaq and Forhad Rahman, who helped youth join IS in Syria, jailed for 4 and a half years, 6 years & 5 years

    "helping a 17-year-old boy to join Islamic State by supplying him with money, equipment, expertise and contacts"

    Assisting in manslaughter.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,838

    Scott_P said:

    @jameskirkup: Dear @TheBMA , why is it safe for Drs to work Saturday if they get unsocial hours premium, but unsafe without? Does more pay boost safety?

    The only unsafe element for more doctors working saturdays is the effect it will have on their personal lives. More of them working at those days = less time spent with their families = more unhappiness = less safe relationships. Of course more patients will be alive and suffer less, but why would these doctors care about the patients.? The NHS is after all run for the convenience of its staff.
    I did wonder whether it was to do with scheduling at golf clubs.
    And Lodge meetings.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Every couple of days there's another conviction for terrorism.

    Religion of Peace, my arse.

    And another one

    Breaking: Kristen Brekke, Adeel Ulhaq and Forhad Rahman, who helped youth join IS in Syria, jailed for 4 and a half years, 6 years & 5 years

    "helping a 17-year-old boy to join Islamic State by supplying him with money, equipment, expertise and contacts"

    Assisting in manslaughter.
  • Options

    Also, if Cameron thinks he will lose, won't it be more sensible to be PM for another two years, rather than either having to resign in June or being considered a failure for rest of premiership??

    He only has a few days to decide to delay beyond June. Squeaky bum time* at number 10 & 11?

    * Alex Ferguson
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited February 2016

    Scott_P said:

    @jameskirkup: Dear @TheBMA , why is it safe for Drs to work Saturday if they get unsocial hours premium, but unsafe without? Does more pay boost safety?

    The only unsafe element for more doctors working saturdays is the effect it will have on their personal lives. More of them working at those days = less time spent with their families = more unhappiness = less safe relationships. Of course more patients will be alive and suffer less, but why would these doctors care about the patients.? The NHS is after all run for the convenience of its staff.
    I did wonder whether it was to do with scheduling at golf clubs.
    That's the Friday problem, but you may be right for the Saturday ones. It is all about interfering in people's lifestyles. Junior doctors are mainly in that "young family" cycle of life and we should appreciate their need for maintaing their quality of life.
    But, unless I'm mistaken, they won't be expected to work every day of every weekend.

    Plenty of other people manage family lives around similar shift patterns, for much lower pay, and without the same career progression.

    My bank's open on a Saturday afternoon, and I can get my haircut on a Sunday. Why should the expensive MRI scanner in the local hospital be lying idle?
  • Options
    I'm genuinely a swing voter on this. I will PROBABLY vote to remain but I am definitely not certain. In other news I might well be back posting with my real name as am on verge of leaving my employer.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I can understand the desire to put off the evil day, but it'll only be worse by Oct.

    Also, if Cameron thinks he will lose, won't it be more sensible to be PM for another two years, rather than either having to resign in June or being considered a failure for rest of premiership??

    He only has a few days to decide to delay beyond June. Squeaky bum time* at number 10 & 11?

    * Alex Ferguson
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Et voila

    @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 41% (-1)
    Leave: 42% (+3)
    (via ICM / 05 - 07 Feb)

    Remain led 44/38 with ICM at the start of January.
    The trend is entirely one way. In a month, LEAVE could be out of sight, with a 10-15 point lead, with all major ammo spent by both sides. How does the government stop it?
    I am rather interested by the somewhat curious idea that all the immigrants will wait patiently until after June before moving en-masse on the European borders. Given the trend towards governments closing borders and toughening legislation I can't see why the mass movement wont start as soon as the snows thaw, say some when in the next 6-8 weeks, to have a fighting chance of getting inside the key countries before those going before them force those borders closed.

    tl;dr: If Cameron thinks the news isn't going to be full of huge migrant movements every night well before his June referendum, he is dreaming.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Hope that's for positive reasons and welcome back in any guise :smiley:

    I'm genuinely a swing voter on this. I will PROBABLY vote to remain but I am definitely not certain. In other news I might well be back posting with my real name as am on verge of leaving my employer.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Has anyone seen @Cromwell about by the way ?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited February 2016
    Maybe Cameron would be better off just not talking about his negotiations or the referendum? No ones interested anyway are they?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Lloyd's of London says Brexit would hamper its global business

    Insurance market says a vote to leave the EU would create barriers to customers but no 'regulatory nirvana'"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/insurance/12150680/Lloyds-of-London-says-Brexit-would-hamper-its-global-business.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
  • Options

    Every couple of days there's another conviction for terrorism.

    Religion of Peace, my arse.

    And another one

    Breaking: Kristen Brekke, Adeel Ulhaq and Forhad Rahman, who helped youth join IS in Syria, jailed for 4 and a half years, 6 years & 5 years

    "helping a 17-year-old boy to join Islamic State by supplying him with money, equipment, expertise and contacts"

    Assisting in manslaughter.
    I always wonder why a 17 year old cannot find a real virgin, rather than be sold myths of them. (Not that I saw much attraction in virgins when I was 17.....)
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Would a reputable poster who thinks that David Cameron is going to postpone the referendum care to craft a bet where I could take the other side?

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.118739910 there you go :)
    When does Cameron have to decide itt's June? 18th Feb? Is it too late for him to pull back?

    I genuinely don't know the answer to these questions. I am sure, however, that they never intended to start a euroref campaign with the polls implying they would lose.

    I imagine they thought they'd be 10-20 points ahead and would merely to have press the obvious buttons.

    So the idea of "rescheduling" the vote MUST be on someone's mind.
    Cameron *not* getting a deal at the coming EU summit would certainly help on that score. It'd also help Cameron's image with waverers if he's seen to be adopting a firmer stance.

  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    One could argue that migrants seeking to get into Britain will be pushing hard just before a referendum vote.

    They don't know what we'll do if Leave wins and won't want to hang about if they think the doors are firmly closing. I'd expect there to be a lot of fence breaking in the run up.
    Indigo said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Et voila

    @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 41% (-1)
    Leave: 42% (+3)
    (via ICM / 05 - 07 Feb)

    Remain led 44/38 with ICM at the start of January.
    The trend is entirely one way. In a month, LEAVE could be out of sight, with a 10-15 point lead, with all major ammo spent by both sides. How does the government stop it?
    I am rather interested by the somewhat curious idea that all the immigrants will wait patiently until after June before moving en-masse on the European borders. Given the trend towards governments closing borders and toughening legislation I can't see why the mass movement wont start as soon as the snows thaw, say some when in the next 6-8 weeks, to have a fighting chance of getting inside the key countries before those going before them force those borders closed.

    tl;dr: If Cameron thinks the news isn't going to be full of huge migrant movements every night well before his June referendum, he is dreaming.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'It'd also help Cameron's image with waverers if he's seen to be adopting a firmer stance.'

    Still big hopes for the smoke and mirrors approach I see...
  • Options

    I can understand the desire to put off the evil day, but it'll only be worse by Oct.

    Also, if Cameron thinks he will lose, won't it be more sensible to be PM for another two years, rather than either having to resign in June or being considered a failure for rest of premiership??

    He only has a few days to decide to delay beyond June. Squeaky bum time* at number 10 & 11?

    * Alex Ferguson
    He could delay until 2017 and hope that Putin sees sense and the EU sorts itself out. Hell freezing over may be a more realistic hope?
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    AndyJS said:

    "Lloyd's of London says Brexit would hamper its global business

    Insurance market says a vote to leave the EU would create barriers to customers but no 'regulatory nirvana'"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/insurance/12150680/Lloyds-of-London-says-Brexit-would-hamper-its-global-business.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    I think Cameron needs to shut the banks up about this, they are not doing him any favours. Fat cats that took squillions from the public purse in bail outs now whining about slightly thinner balance sheets isn't a good look to Joe Public.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited February 2016
    Indigo said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Lloyd's of London says Brexit would hamper its global business

    Insurance market says a vote to leave the EU would create barriers to customers but no 'regulatory nirvana'"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/insurance/12150680/Lloyds-of-London-says-Brexit-would-hamper-its-global-business.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    I think Cameron needs to shut the banks up about this, they are not doing him any favours. Fat cats that took squillions from the public purse in bail outs now whining about slightly thinner balance sheets isn't a good look to Joe Public.
    Lloyds of London is an insurance market, not a bank.

    And you do know that bankers didn't pocket the bailout money personally, and why it was injected into the system?
  • Options
    Huzzah...!
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Indigo said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Et voila

    @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 41% (-1)
    Leave: 42% (+3)
    (via ICM / 05 - 07 Feb)

    Remain led 44/38 with ICM at the start of January.
    The trend is entirely one way. In a month, LEAVE could be out of sight, with a 10-15 point lead, with all major ammo spent by both sides. How does the government stop it?
    I am rather interested by the somewhat curious idea that all the immigrants will wait patiently until after June before moving en-masse on the European borders. Given the trend towards governments closing borders and toughening legislation I can't see why the mass movement wont start as soon as the snows thaw, say some when in the next 6-8 weeks, to have a fighting chance of getting inside the key countries before those going before them force those borders closed.

    tl;dr: If Cameron thinks the news isn't going to be full of huge migrant movements every night well before his June referendum, he is dreaming.
    Good point if Brexit looks more likely then perhaps the Jungle inhabitants will redouble their efforts before the doors shut forever.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    TGOHF said:

    Indigo said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Et voila

    @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 41% (-1)
    Leave: 42% (+3)
    (via ICM / 05 - 07 Feb)

    Remain led 44/38 with ICM at the start of January.
    The trend is entirely one way. In a month, LEAVE could be out of sight, with a 10-15 point lead, with all major ammo spent by both sides. How does the government stop it?
    I am rather interested by the somewhat curious idea that all the immigrants will wait patiently until after June before moving en-masse on the European borders. Given the trend towards governments closing borders and toughening legislation I can't see why the mass movement wont start as soon as the snows thaw, say some when in the next 6-8 weeks, to have a fighting chance of getting inside the key countries before those going before them force those borders closed.

    tl;dr: If Cameron thinks the news isn't going to be full of huge migrant movements every night well before his June referendum, he is dreaming.
    Good point if Brexit looks more likely then perhaps the Jungle inhabitants will redouble their efforts before the doors shut forever.
    Brexit will open the doors wont it?
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited February 2016
    watford30 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @jameskirkup: Dear @TheBMA , why is it safe for Drs to work Saturday if they get unsocial hours premium, but unsafe without? Does more pay boost safety?

    The only unsafe element for more doctors working saturdays is the effect it will have on their personal lives. More of them working at those days = less time spent with their families = more unhappiness = less safe relationships. Of course more patients will be alive and suffer less, but why would these doctors care about the patients.? The NHS is after all run for the convenience of its staff.
    I did wonder whether it was to do with scheduling at golf clubs.
    That's the Friday problem, but you may be right for the Saturday ones. It is all about interfering in people's lifestyles. Junior doctors are mainly in that "young family" cycle of life and we should appreciate their need for maintaing their quality of life.
    But, unless I'm mistaken, they won't be expected to work every day of every weekend.

    Plenty of other people manage family lives around similar shift patterns, for much lower pay, and without the same career progression.

    My bank's open on a Saturday afternoon, and I can get my haircut on a Sunday. Why should the expensive MRI scanner in the local hospital be lying idle?
    You clearly are not sharing in the really awful situation these gilded lillies are facing. Once upon a time they worked 1 saturday a month between the two doctors. They did this by avoiding A&E work which is why A&E is usually short of doctors. In the future this one saturday is likely to become 3 a month split between the two doctors so they end up with just one saturday a month for them both to be off work at the same time. This is a massive infringement into their lifestyle with an end to their time with friends, trips to ikea and cafe living. Dinner parties on Saturdays become impossible as not all guests can come at the same time.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119

    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Would a reputable poster who thinks that David Cameron is going to postpone the referendum care to craft a bet where I could take the other side?

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.118739910 there you go :)
    When does Cameron have to decide itt's June? 18th Feb? Is it too late for him to pull back?

    I genuinely don't know the answer to these questions. I am sure, however, that they never intended to start a euroref campaign with the polls implying they would lose.

    I imagine they thought they'd be 10-20 points ahead and would merely to have press the obvious buttons.

    So the idea of "rescheduling" the vote MUST be on someone's mind.
    Cameron *not* getting a deal at the coming EU summit would certainly help on that score. It'd also help Cameron's image with waverers if he's seen to be adopting a firmer stance.

    One thing is certain. From what we saw last week, any further tiny concessions by the EU are going to be sold as Cameron having found King Solomon's Mines.

    This is looking like a highly-greased slope for Remain.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    watford30 said:

    Indigo said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Lloyd's of London says Brexit would hamper its global business

    Insurance market says a vote to leave the EU would create barriers to customers but no 'regulatory nirvana'"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/insurance/12150680/Lloyds-of-London-says-Brexit-would-hamper-its-global-business.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    I think Cameron needs to shut the banks up about this, they are not doing him any favours. Fat cats that took squillions from the public purse in bail outs now whining about slightly thinner balance sheets isn't a good look to Joe Public.
    Lloyds of London is an insurance market, not a bank.

    And you do know that bankers didn't pocket the bailout money personally?
    Indeed, but it has the same name as a well known high street bank, how many voter do you think know the difference, its the "City" innit.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited February 2016
    Fantastic... the fav politrican of my Dad and myself, although Dad had him down as 60 when trying to describe who he was!
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Indigo said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Et voila

    @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 41% (-1)
    Leave: 42% (+3)
    (via ICM / 05 - 07 Feb)

    Remain led 44/38 with ICM at the start of January.
    The trend is entirely one way. In a month, LEAVE could be out of sight, with a 10-15 point lead, with all major ammo spent by both sides. How does the government stop it?
    I am rather interested by the somewhat curious idea that all the immigrants will wait patiently until after June before moving en-masse on the European borders. Given the trend towards governments closing borders and toughening legislation I can't see why the mass movement wont start as soon as the snows thaw, say some when in the next 6-8 weeks, to have a fighting chance of getting inside the key countries before those going before them force those borders closed.

    tl;dr: If Cameron thinks the news isn't going to be full of huge migrant movements every night well before his June referendum, he is dreaming.
    Good point if Brexit looks more likely then perhaps the Jungle inhabitants will redouble their efforts before the doors shut forever.
    Brexit will open the doors wont it?
    There will be a jungle camp in everyones garden if we vote leave - says Dave.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Reflects the fact that many Labour supporters regard Tories as bad people whereas Tories think of Labour supporters as misguided.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Would a reputable poster who thinks that David Cameron is going to postpone the referendum care to craft a bet where I could take the other side?

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.118739910 there you go :)
    When does Cameron have to decide itt's June? 18th Feb? Is it too late for him to pull back?

    I genuinely don't know the answer to these questions. I am sure, however, that they never intended to start a euroref campaign with the polls implying they would lose.

    I imagine they thought they'd be 10-20 points ahead and would merely to have press the obvious buttons.

    So the idea of "rescheduling" the vote MUST be on someone's mind.
    Cameron *not* getting a deal at the coming EU summit would certainly help on that score. It'd also help Cameron's image with waverers if he's seen to be adopting a firmer stance.

    One thing is certain. From what we saw last week, any further tiny concessions by the EU are going to be sold as Cameron having found King Solomon's Mines.

    This is looking like a highly-greased slope for Remain.
    Unless is has been pre-agreed (not something I would remotely rule out) what are the odds that he will come away with more rather than less from the CoE meeting. Must be a fighting chance that the French think its still dangerously favourable to us, and they actually want 20 countries to have to vote for the "red card" and the both the Commission and the EU Parliament would need to approve pulling the emergency brake, which then lets us ramp the benefits up over 6 months.
  • Options
    Osborne making progress in ConHome surveys.....down again. "The survey for this month’s Cabinet league table was conducted before the release of David Cameron’s draft EU deal and what followed on, such as Theresa May’s equivocal support for it."
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/google-sinks-osborne-in-our-latest-cabinet-league-table.html

    Party Chairman Feldman has the same rating as something smelly on the bottom of one's shoe.
  • Options
    isam said:

    Fantastic... the fav politrican of my Dad and myself, although Dad had him down as 60 when trying to describe who he was!
    Particularly enjoyable is the way that JR-M invalidates Stephen Pound's boast without even trying.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Party Chairman Feldman has the same rating as something smelly on the bottom of one's shoe.

    which is extremely apt
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474


    Party Chairman Feldman has the same rating as something smelly on the bottom of one's shoe.

    The googly eyes and tired 60's comedy routines must put people off.
  • Options
    Welcome back, Mr. Fletcher.

    I hope the potential departure is of the positive variety.
  • Options
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/10/pms-refusal-to-engage-with-eu-over-refugees-is-helping?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Apparently Yvette thinks that Cameron should be taking in more refugees as that will help settle things down in Europe and make people in the UK less eurosceptic..... Call it the Merkel approach? Just imagine if Labour had chosen her rather than Corbyn?
  • Options
    watford30 said:


    Party Chairman Feldman has the same rating as something smelly on the bottom of one's shoe.

    The googly eyes and tired 60's comedy routines must put people off.
    No it is probably more to do with guiding donors to the Remain campaign and the stench over that suicide.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    AndyJS said:

    Reflects the fact that many Labour supporters regard Tories as bad people whereas Tories think of Labour supporters as misguided.
    Hopefully the Rees-Mogg quotation has been cut short and he actually said "... 99 righteous people that do not need to repent," or words to that effect. One wouldn't like to think that the Conservative benches were populated with men that mangle the scriptures.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Reflects the fact that many Labour supporters regard Tories as bad people whereas Tories think of Labour supporters as misguided.
    JR-M wins through kindness.
  • Options
    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    watford30 said:

    Indigo said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Lloyd's of London says Brexit would hamper its global business

    Insurance market says a vote to leave the EU would create barriers to customers but no 'regulatory nirvana'"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/insurance/12150680/Lloyds-of-London-says-Brexit-would-hamper-its-global-business.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    I think Cameron needs to shut the banks up about this, they are not doing him any favours. Fat cats that took squillions from the public purse in bail outs now whining about slightly thinner balance sheets isn't a good look to Joe Public.
    Lloyds of London is an insurance market, not a bank.

    And you do know that bankers didn't pocket the bailout money personally, and why it was injected into the system?
    You're naive if you think that none of the money ended up in people's pockets.
  • Options
    Mr. Betting, amidst the rightful mockery of Corbyn, it's worth recalling Cooper is, in isolation, not an impressive politician. The only thing I can actually remember about her record is utterly buggering up HIPs.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282
    If Cameron does not get a deal next month he doesn't have a package to offer the British Public so the referendum gets postponed, he looks marginally tougher, there is time to cobble together a more credible package and for the polls to move more favourably again.

    Maybe I am getting too cynical but I think the prospects of him signing off a deal are falling by the hour.

    I have been thinking what could change my mind. One possibility is that things get really bad again. If they do then whatever the long term benefits the argument that this is not the time to jump out of the lifeboat (or sinking ship of course, depending on how the crisis shows itself) into the uncertainty of deals still to be negotiated may become compelling.

    I linked a couple of times to a chart last week showing the very rapidly increasing cost of insuring against the default of investment grade bank debt. Liquidity is draining out of our banking system as those who used to be ready sources of credit such as major commodity providers fall into deficit and look to sell down their existing holdings. Without going all @hunchman about it I think the financial outlook is as bad as it has been for at least 4 years, possibly longer.

    Watch this space. Nurse just might start to look more attractive.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/10/pms-refusal-to-engage-with-eu-over-refugees-is-helping?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Apparently Yvette thinks that Cameron should be taking in more refugees as that will help settle things down in Europe and make people in the UK less eurosceptic..... Call it the Merkel approach? Just imagine if Labour had chosen her rather than Corbyn?

    How's that "listening to the voters about immigration" thing going for Labour?

    I think maybe the party needs its ears syringing....
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    isam said:

    Fantastic... the fav politrican of my Dad and myself, although Dad had him down as 60 when trying to describe who he was!
    Particularly enjoyable is the way that JR-M invalidates Stephen Pound's boast without even trying.
    "I'm not a racist, but if my daughter came home ..."
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Re doctors' pay, I was at a party this weekend and was chatting to a registrar neurologist. She explained to me that the big problem with the Hunt programme was that it was effectively a massive pay cut for certain specialities (such as A&E), while a massive pay rise for others. (Those who work in specialities with lots of night-time and weekend working are going to get less, while those who are almost entirely in elective, and non-emergency areas, are going to get more.)

    She was particularly critical given that - apparently - A&E is already the department where it is hardest to recruit and keep doctors.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119
    rcs1000 said:

    Re doctors' pay, I was at a party this weekend and was chatting to a registrar neurologist. She explained to me that the big problem with the Hunt programme was that it was effectively a massive pay cut for certain specialities (such as A&E), while a massive pay rise for others. (Those who work in specialities with lots of night-time and weekend working are going to get less, while those who are almost entirely in elective, and non-emergency areas, are going to get more.)

    She was particularly critical given that - apparently - A&E is already the department where it is hardest to recruit and keep doctors.

    So she confirmed the strike was all about money then?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    Looks like Remain took a small hit from Cameron's deal.

    In other news, Johnny Depp stars as Donald Trump in "Art of the Deal, The Movie", directed by Ron Howard :

    http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ad38087bac/donald-trump-art-of-the-deal-movie?_cc=__d___&_ccid=cec08d822f9aa214
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    DavidL said:

    If Cameron does not get a deal next month he doesn't have a package to offer the British Public so the referendum gets postponed, he looks marginally tougher, there is time to cobble together a more credible package and for the polls to move more favourably again.

    Maybe I am getting too cynical but I think the prospects of him signing off a deal are falling by the hour.

    I have been thinking what could change my mind. One possibility is that things get really bad again. If they do then whatever the long term benefits the argument that this is not the time to jump out of the lifeboat (or sinking ship of course, depending on how the crisis shows itself) into the uncertainty of deals still to be negotiated may become compelling.

    I linked a couple of times to a chart last week showing the very rapidly increasing cost of insuring against the default of investment grade bank debt. Liquidity is draining out of our banking system as those who used to be ready sources of credit such as major commodity providers fall into deficit and look to sell down their existing holdings. Without going all @hunchman about it I think the financial outlook is as bad as it has been for at least 4 years, possibly longer.

    Watch this space. Nurse just might start to look more attractive.

    In order to not sign off he really needs to be able to explain how it's worse than the deal he has said is OK? Or can he say "That was a promising draft but the positions of our partners have not moved in the way we need them to?"
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282
    Wanderer said:

    DavidL said:

    If Cameron does not get a deal next month he doesn't have a package to offer the British Public so the referendum gets postponed, he looks marginally tougher, there is time to cobble together a more credible package and for the polls to move more favourably again.

    Maybe I am getting too cynical but I think the prospects of him signing off a deal are falling by the hour.

    I have been thinking what could change my mind. One possibility is that things get really bad again. If they do then whatever the long term benefits the argument that this is not the time to jump out of the lifeboat (or sinking ship of course, depending on how the crisis shows itself) into the uncertainty of deals still to be negotiated may become compelling.

    I linked a couple of times to a chart last week showing the very rapidly increasing cost of insuring against the default of investment grade bank debt. Liquidity is draining out of our banking system as those who used to be ready sources of credit such as major commodity providers fall into deficit and look to sell down their existing holdings. Without going all @hunchman about it I think the financial outlook is as bad as it has been for at least 4 years, possibly longer.

    Watch this space. Nurse just might start to look more attractive.

    In order to not sign off he really needs to be able to explain how it's worse than the deal he has said is OK? Or can he say "That was a promising draft but the positions of our partners have not moved in the way we need them to?"
    He's a politician and a clever one at that. He can find something aspirational that he has been unable to tie down to his satisfaction.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Fantastic... the fav politrican of my Dad and myself, although Dad had him down as 60 when trying to describe who he was!
    Particularly enjoyable is the way that JR-M invalidates Stephen Pound's boast without even trying.
    "I'm not a racist, but if my daughter came home ..."
    The phrase "if my daughter came home" has a weirdly patriarchal ring anyway.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    rcs1000 said:

    Re doctors' pay, I was at a party this weekend and was chatting to a registrar neurologist. She explained to me that the big problem with the Hunt programme was that it was effectively a massive pay cut for certain specialities (such as A&E), while a massive pay rise for others. (Those who work in specialities with lots of night-time and weekend working are going to get less, while those who are almost entirely in elective, and non-emergency areas, are going to get more.)

    She was particularly critical given that - apparently - A&E is already the department where it is hardest to recruit and keep doctors.

    So she confirmed the strike was all about money then?
    She hasn't gone on strike, and isn't a BMA member.

    But I do wonder if the whole thing could have been avoided if they'd divided it up by specialities and had variable payrises between 3% and 18%, and then eliminated overtime and the like.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    If Cameron does not get a deal next month he doesn't have a package to offer the British Public so the referendum gets postponed, he looks marginally tougher, there is time to cobble together a more credible package and for the polls to move more favourably again.

    Maybe I am getting too cynical but I think the prospects of him signing off a deal are falling by the hour.

    I have been thinking what could change my mind. One possibility is that things get really bad again. If they do then whatever the long term benefits the argument that this is not the time to jump out of the lifeboat (or sinking ship of course, depending on how the crisis shows itself) into the uncertainty of deals still to be negotiated may become compelling.

    I linked a couple of times to a chart last week showing the very rapidly increasing cost of insuring against the default of investment grade bank debt. Liquidity is draining out of our banking system as those who used to be ready sources of credit such as major commodity providers fall into deficit and look to sell down their existing holdings. Without going all @hunchman about it I think the financial outlook is as bad as it has been for at least 4 years, possibly longer.

    Watch this space. Nurse just might start to look more attractive.

    I already used the lifeboat analogy a day or so ago. I believe I was more accurate in saying that we are standing on the deck of the Titanic and being told not to leave because we can't decide which colour lifeboats to use.

    The EU is not going to get better for the UK. As the financial climate worsens problems we saw a few years ago will return. Things can only get worse as long as we remain onboard. Either we take the lifeboat now or we suffer far more when we are forced to swim for it later.

  • Options
    Pleased that we are once more on course to Leave the EU.

    I can only imagine that this will mean the Prime Minister will delay the referendum to next year.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    edited February 2016

    Every couple of days there's another conviction for terrorism.

    Religion of Peace, my arse.

    And another one

    Breaking: Kristen Brekke, Adeel Ulhaq and Forhad Rahman, who helped youth join IS in Syria, jailed for 4 and a half years, 6 years & 5 years

    "helping a 17-year-old boy to join Islamic State by supplying him with money, equipment, expertise and contacts"

    Assisting in manslaughter.
    I always wonder why a 17 year old cannot find a real virgin, rather than be sold myths of them. (Not that I saw much attraction in virgins when I was 17.....)
    72 year old virgins? :lol:
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Boo hoo, yet another one.

    Jihadist who deserted IS and returned to the UK after becoming complaining of a lack of hot water and other comforts jailed. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article4687560.ece
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited February 2016
    Complete nerdiness, but if one were to fancy backing LEAVE, backing

    REMAIN 45%-50% at 4s
    REMAIN 40%-45% at 14s
    and
    REMAIN 40% and under at 28s

    is marginally better (3.32) than the best price of 9/4

    EDIT: and you get the dead heat!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    DavidL said:

    If Cameron does not get a deal next month he doesn't have a package to offer the British Public so the referendum gets postponed, he looks marginally tougher, there is time to cobble together a more credible package and for the polls to move more favourably again.

    Maybe I am getting too cynical but I think the prospects of him signing off a deal are falling by the hour.

    I have been thinking what could change my mind. One possibility is that things get really bad again. If they do then whatever the long term benefits the argument that this is not the time to jump out of the lifeboat (or sinking ship of course, depending on how the crisis shows itself) into the uncertainty of deals still to be negotiated may become compelling.

    I linked a couple of times to a chart last week showing the very rapidly increasing cost of insuring against the default of investment grade bank debt. Liquidity is draining out of our banking system as those who used to be ready sources of credit such as major commodity providers fall into deficit and look to sell down their existing holdings. Without going all @hunchman about it I think the financial outlook is as bad as it has been for at least 4 years, possibly longer.

    Watch this space. Nurse just might start to look more attractive.

    As the resident optimist here, I would point out that - in Europe at least - both consumer and corporate debt have shrunk dramatically since 2007. Outstanding loans at Europe's top 20 banks are down 18% since 2008, and that understates the drop, because those 20 have taken massive market share. (I.e. there are a whole bunch of banks that don't exist any more.)

    If you take the net debt of the 500 largest companies in Europe (the Bloomberg 500), and sum up the net debt of non-banks, you see it fell from EUR2.0trillion in 2007, to EUR1.5trn in 2008.

    Plus the banks have massively more capital than in 2007/8. RBS had core tier one of - what - 3.5% in 2007/8. It's now (what) 12%.

    So, banks are owed much less, and have 3-4x the loss absorbing capacity that they used to.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re doctors' pay, I was at a party this weekend and was chatting to a registrar neurologist. She explained to me that the big problem with the Hunt programme was that it was effectively a massive pay cut for certain specialities (such as A&E), while a massive pay rise for others. (Those who work in specialities with lots of night-time and weekend working are going to get less, while those who are almost entirely in elective, and non-emergency areas, are going to get more.)

    She was particularly critical given that - apparently - A&E is already the department where it is hardest to recruit and keep doctors.

    So she confirmed the strike was all about money then?
    She hasn't gone on strike, and isn't a BMA member.

    But I do wonder if the whole thing could have been avoided if they'd divided it up by specialities and had variable payrises between 3% and 18%, and then eliminated overtime and the like.
    Maybe Jeremy Hunt just hasn't thought of this yet ? Or the Doctors ?

    Certainly if it makes A&E harder for recruitment and retention that isn't a good thing.

    Suggest it to ACAS :D (If it is on a cost neutral basis it is no loss for the Gov't)
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re doctors' pay, I was at a party this weekend and was chatting to a registrar neurologist. She explained to me that the big problem with the Hunt programme was that it was effectively a massive pay cut for certain specialities (such as A&E), while a massive pay rise for others. (Those who work in specialities with lots of night-time and weekend working are going to get less, while those who are almost entirely in elective, and non-emergency areas, are going to get more.)

    She was particularly critical given that - apparently - A&E is already the department where it is hardest to recruit and keep doctors.

    So she confirmed the strike was all about money then?
    She hasn't gone on strike, and isn't a BMA member.

    But I do wonder if the whole thing could have been avoided if they'd divided it up by specialities and had variable payrises between 3% and 18%, and then eliminated overtime and the like.
    Yes some basic laws of the market would have fixed this and I wonder why the socialist nhs did not go down that path?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    FPT:
    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I'm convinced the polls are still understating Leave - yet to find anyone enthusiastic for the EU.

    Just like Ed Miliband's Labour....

    I was just in a meeting with a very enthusiastic young lady from Manchester (who supports Man City), and who unprompted shared her view that Britain would be mad to leave the EU.
    There is one, remain are saved!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re doctors' pay, I was at a party this weekend and was chatting to a registrar neurologist. She explained to me that the big problem with the Hunt programme was that it was effectively a massive pay cut for certain specialities (such as A&E), while a massive pay rise for others. (Those who work in specialities with lots of night-time and weekend working are going to get less, while those who are almost entirely in elective, and non-emergency areas, are going to get more.)

    She was particularly critical given that - apparently - A&E is already the department where it is hardest to recruit and keep doctors.

    So she confirmed the strike was all about money then?
    She hasn't gone on strike, and isn't a BMA member.

    But I do wonder if the whole thing could have been avoided if they'd divided it up by specialities and had variable payrises between 3% and 18%, and then eliminated overtime and the like.
    Yes some basic laws of the market would have fixed this and I wonder why the socialist nhs did not go down that path?
    Can't disagree with that...
  • Options
    CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited February 2016
    "I'm the least sectarian of people..."

    I often find that Labour supporters are actually the most sectarian. They are brought up to believe, continue to believe, and teach to their children the belief, that Tories = Scum.

    Proved again by this pathetic MP.
  • Options

    Every couple of days there's another conviction for terrorism.

    Religion of Peace, my arse.

    And another one

    Breaking: Kristen Brekke, Adeel Ulhaq and Forhad Rahman, who helped youth join IS in Syria, jailed for 4 and a half years, 6 years & 5 years

    "helping a 17-year-old boy to join Islamic State by supplying him with money, equipment, expertise and contacts"

    Assisting in manslaughter.
    I always wonder why a 17 year old cannot find a real virgin, rather than be sold myths of them. (Not that I saw much attraction in virgins when I was 17.....)
    72 year old virgins? :lol:
    If only the Imans preached that outcome.
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    edited February 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    Re doctors' pay, I was at a party this weekend and was chatting to a registrar neurologist. She explained to me that the big problem with the Hunt programme was that it was effectively a massive pay cut for certain specialities (such as A&E), while a massive pay rise for others. (Those who work in specialities with lots of night-time and weekend working are going to get less, while those who are almost entirely in elective, and non-emergency areas, are going to get more.)

    She was particularly critical given that - apparently - A&E is already the department where it is hardest to recruit and keep doctors.

    So she confirmed the strike was all about money then?
    You never think this was a betting site and we're all supposed to be numerate.

    Hunt has said that no junior doctor will be paid less so it quite obviously is not about money.

    His stated aim is to have more junior doctors at weekends (why we'll have to speculate because he certainly needs more radiographers, pharmacists, nurses, consultants, pathologists, porters etc before he needs junior doctors). So if he has more juniors at weekends where will they have come from? The only place is by denuding the weekday rotas to make weekday care less safe.

    This strike is about safety, not money.
  • Options
    Interesting from Nick Cohen - anyone care to guess what Galloway will actually poll? 3%?

    Khan’s supporters dismiss Galloway’s political organisation as little more than a Twitter feed these days. But in their hearts they must be worried. Galloway is capable of winning a substantial vote. He came from nowhere to take parliamentary seats, first in Tower Hamlets and then in Bradford. His supporters are unlikely to make Khan their second preference, after Galloway has spent the campaign attacking Khan’s supposed treasons. More to the point Galloway’s prejudices are the prejudices of London’s Corbynites, the people Khan needs to campaign for him.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/would-jeremy-corbyn-prefer-george-galloway-to-be-mayor-of-london/
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    AndyJS said:

    Reflects the fact that many Labour supporters regard Tories as bad people whereas Tories think of Labour supporters as misguided.
    And that S Pound is unaware of the meaning of 'sectarian'
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    DavidL said:

    Wanderer said:

    DavidL said:

    If Cameron does not get a deal next month he doesn't have a package to offer the British Public so the referendum gets postponed, he looks marginally tougher, there is time to cobble together a more credible package and for the polls to move more favourably again.

    Maybe I am getting too cynical but I think the prospects of him signing off a deal are falling by the hour.

    I have been thinking what could change my mind. One possibility is that things get really bad again. If they do then whatever the long term benefits the argument that this is not the time to jump out of the lifeboat (or sinking ship of course, depending on how the crisis shows itself) into the uncertainty of deals still to be negotiated may become compelling.

    I linked a couple of times to a chart last week showing the very rapidly increasing cost of insuring against the default of investment grade bank debt. Liquidity is draining out of our banking system as those who used to be ready sources of credit such as major commodity providers fall into deficit and look to sell down their existing holdings. Without going all @hunchman about it I think the financial outlook is as bad as it has been for at least 4 years, possibly longer.

    Watch this space. Nurse just might start to look more attractive.

    In order to not sign off he really needs to be able to explain how it's worse than the deal he has said is OK? Or can he say "That was a promising draft but the positions of our partners have not moved in the way we need them to?"
    He's a politician and a clever one at that. He can find something aspirational that he has been unable to tie down to his satisfaction.
    I dare say that's right. Would be interesting to see how he did it though.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited February 2016

    Interesting from Nick Cohen - anyone care to guess what Galloway will actually poll? 3%?

    Khan’s supporters dismiss Galloway’s political organisation as little more than a Twitter feed these days. But in their hearts they must be worried. Galloway is capable of winning a substantial vote. He came from nowhere to take parliamentary seats, first in Tower Hamlets and then in Bradford. His supporters are unlikely to make Khan their second preference, after Galloway has spent the campaign attacking Khan’s supposed treasons. More to the point Galloway’s prejudices are the prejudices of London’s Corbynites, the people Khan needs to campaign for him.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/would-jeremy-corbyn-prefer-george-galloway-to-be-mayor-of-london/

    I reckon I am a buyer of 3%... he can go for the Muslim vote without pandering to the other parts of London
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    TGOHF said:

    Indigo said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Et voila

    @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 41% (-1)
    Leave: 42% (+3)
    (via ICM / 05 - 07 Feb)

    Remain led 44/38 with ICM at the start of January.
    The trend is entirely one way. In a month, LEAVE could be out of sight, with a 10-15 point lead, with all major ammo spent by both sides. How does the government stop it?
    I am rather interested by the somewhat curious idea that all the immigrants will wait patiently until after June before moving en-masse on the European borders. Given the trend towards governments closing borders and toughening legislation I can't see why the mass movement wont start as soon as the snows thaw, say some when in the next 6-8 weeks, to have a fighting chance of getting inside the key countries before those going before them force those borders closed.

    tl;dr: If Cameron thinks the news isn't going to be full of huge migrant movements every night well before his June referendum, he is dreaming.
    Good point if Brexit looks more likely then perhaps the Jungle inhabitants will redouble their efforts before the doors shut forever.
    You really think that if we leave, Ahmed is going to turn to Naseem and say right lads that's it we'd better pack up and go home. Our leaving the EU will not change this situation one jot.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Chris_A said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re doctors' pay, I was at a party this weekend and was chatting to a registrar neurologist. She explained to me that the big problem with the Hunt programme was that it was effectively a massive pay cut for certain specialities (such as A&E), while a massive pay rise for others. (Those who work in specialities with lots of night-time and weekend working are going to get less, while those who are almost entirely in elective, and non-emergency areas, are going to get more.)

    She was particularly critical given that - apparently - A&E is already the department where it is hardest to recruit and keep doctors.

    So she confirmed the strike was all about money then?
    You never think this was a betting site and we're all supposed to be numerate.

    Hunt has said that no junior doctor will be paid less so it quite obviously is not about money.

    His stated aim is to have more junior doctors at weekends (why we'll have to speculate because he certainly needs more radiographers, pharmacists, nurses, consultants, pathologists, porters etc than he needs junior doctors). So if he has more juniors at weekends where will they have come from? The only place is by denuding the weekday rotas to make weekday care less safe.

    This strike is about safety, not money.
    Probably quite a good idea to encourage the people who can afford it to take out private healthcare insurance then. Would you agree?

    Making it tax deductable would be a great Budget idea for Osbo.
  • Options
    Mr. H, perhaps he considers Labour his religion, and departure from it apostasy.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re doctors' pay, I was at a party this weekend and was chatting to a registrar neurologist. She explained to me that the big problem with the Hunt programme was that it was effectively a massive pay cut for certain specialities (such as A&E), while a massive pay rise for others. (Those who work in specialities with lots of night-time and weekend working are going to get less, while those who are almost entirely in elective, and non-emergency areas, are going to get more.)

    She was particularly critical given that - apparently - A&E is already the department where it is hardest to recruit and keep doctors.

    So she confirmed the strike was all about money then?
    She hasn't gone on strike, and isn't a BMA member.

    But I do wonder if the whole thing could have been avoided if they'd divided it up by specialities and had variable payrises between 3% and 18%, and then eliminated overtime and the like.
    Yes some basic laws of the market would have fixed this and I wonder why the socialist nhs did not go down that path?
    Can't disagree with that...
    There was a similar discussion this morning, regarding attracting teachers towards certain subjects with pay inducements. Unfortunately, one suspects that the unions would never allow it.

    Do you think the BMA would accept the same? Or would those not included sulk, and ultimately strike, because they felt left out.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    "I'm the least sectarian of people..."

    I often find that Labour supporters are actually the most sectarian. They are brought up to believe, continue to believe, and teach to their children the belief, that Tories = Scum.

    Proved again by this pathetic MP.
    For the least sectarian of people he does sound pretty damned sectarian doesn't he?
  • Options
    A very unsurprising poll. I've always been of the opinion that the very fact that these negotiations are taking place (regardless of their outcome) is damaging to REMAIN.

    Cameron is drawing vast attention to those aspects of the EU that he regards as unsatisfactory but he isn't saying a word about (let alone promoting) those that he's happy with.

    He's simultaneously alienating the soft LEAVERS, the soft REMAINERS, the undecided swing voters and even some of us firm REMAINERS!



  • Options
    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited February 2016

    I'm genuinely a swing voter on this. I will PROBABLY vote to remain but I am definitely not certain. In other news I might well be back posting with my real name as am on verge of leaving my employer.

    Good to see you back after a five month absence and an even longer absence before that.
    IIRC you were once one of PB's prolific posters and proved the old adage that "you can leave PB, you will also return". Incidentally I hope the same also applies to my near namesake who has gone AWOL for the last several months.
    If memory serves, I believe you were working for The Times group, but were looking to make a move to Ireland ..... or am I confusing you with someone else?

    P.S you're one of the few Tories on here who has gone public in stating that they appears intend to to vote for Remain .... has Ireland perhaps converted you into a Europhile?
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "Britain's manufacturing sector remains 9.8pc smaller than its 2008 peak, while the wider industrial sector is still 6.5pc smaller than its pre-crash size."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12149849/Shock-fall-in-UK-industrial-output-lays-bare-plight-of-sector.html

    Thank goodness we have our "near perfect" (tm Mr. Nabavi) chancellor looking after the economy (when he can be bothered to turn away from political stunts) otherwise we might also still have a large structural deficit and a massive current account imbalance.
  • Options
    philiph said:

    AndyJS said:

    Reflects the fact that many Labour supporters regard Tories as bad people whereas Tories think of Labour supporters as misguided.
    And that S Pound is unaware of the meaning of 'sectarian'
    Has it been confirmed his was not a joke? It sounds like the sort of thing people say about football clubs.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Chris_A said:

    TGOHF said:

    Indigo said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Et voila

    @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 41% (-1)
    Leave: 42% (+3)
    (via ICM / 05 - 07 Feb)

    Remain led 44/38 with ICM at the start of January.
    The trend is entirely one way. In a month, LEAVE could be out of sight, with a 10-15 point lead, with all major ammo spent by both sides. How does the government stop it?
    I am rather interested by the somewhat curious idea that all the immigrants will wait patiently until after June before moving en-masse on the European borders. Given the trend towards governments closing borders and toughening legislation I can't see why the mass movement wont start as soon as the snows thaw, say some when in the next 6-8 weeks, to have a fighting chance of getting inside the key countries before those going before them force those borders closed.

    tl;dr: If Cameron thinks the news isn't going to be full of huge migrant movements every night well before his June referendum, he is dreaming.
    Good point if Brexit looks more likely then perhaps the Jungle inhabitants will redouble their efforts before the doors shut forever.
    You really think that if we leave, Ahmed is going to turn to Naseem and say right lads that's it we'd better pack up and go home. Our leaving the EU will not change this situation one jot.
    Don't be a fool. People migrating are making a risk/reward calculation. If it suddenly gets a lot harder to get into the UK, or much less profitable to be in the UK, they will look at other countries that are less hard work or have better prospects. In addition if they hear that the chance of getting into the UK is going to drop dramatically in a few weeks its just possible they might made a rather more stringent attempt in the intervening period.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    "Britain's manufacturing sector remains 9.8pc smaller than its 2008 peak, while the wider industrial sector is still 6.5pc smaller than its pre-crash size."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12149849/Shock-fall-in-UK-industrial-output-lays-bare-plight-of-sector.html

    Thank goodness we have our "near perfect" (tm Mr. Nabavi) chancellor looking after the economy (when he can be bothered to turn away from political stunts) otherwise we might also still have a large structural deficit and a massive current account imbalance.

    I know Sir Alan Brooke of this parish bangs on about manufacturing, but given our success in the service sector, does it really matter?

    Britain is presumably a bladdy expensive place to manufacture stuff....
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited February 2016
    Derek Johnson ITV
    Coroner criticises Maidstone and Tunbridge NHS Trust over death of woman denied a CT scan at the weekend because of hospital policy

    Coroner Roger Hatch said Trust policy over weekend CT scans "highly unsatisfactory" and "proved critical" in case of Sandra Wood's death
  • Options

    I'm genuinely a swing voter on this. I will PROBABLY vote to remain but I am definitely not certain. In other news I might well be back posting with my real name as am on verge of leaving my employer.

    Good to see you back after a five month absence and an even longer absence before that.
    IIRC you were once one of PB's prolific posters and proved the old age that "you can leave PB, you will also return. incidentally I hope the same also applies to my near namesake who has gone AWOL for the last several months.
    If memory serves, I believe you were working for The Times group, but were looking to make a move to Ireland ..... or am I confusing you with someone else?

    P.S you're one of the few Tories on here who has gone public in stating that they appears intend to to vote for Remain .... has Ireland perhaps converted you into a Europhile?
    We are a growing number.... a new recruit to the new Tory not obsessed etc party
  • Options
    OT someone tipped White Dog e/w in the 5.25 -- third at 50/1
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Chris_A said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re doctors' pay, I was at a party this weekend and was chatting to a registrar neurologist. She explained to me that the big problem with the Hunt programme was that it was effectively a massive pay cut for certain specialities (such as A&E), while a massive pay rise for others. (Those who work in specialities with lots of night-time and weekend working are going to get less, while those who are almost entirely in elective, and non-emergency areas, are going to get more.)

    She was particularly critical given that - apparently - A&E is already the department where it is hardest to recruit and keep doctors.

    So she confirmed the strike was all about money then?
    You never think this was a betting site and we're all supposed to be numerate.

    Hunt has said that no junior doctor will be paid less so it quite obviously is not about money.

    His stated aim is to have more junior doctors at weekends (why we'll have to speculate because he certainly needs more radiographers, pharmacists, nurses, consultants, pathologists, porters etc before he needs junior doctors). So if he has more juniors at weekends where will they have come from? The only place is by denuding the weekday rotas to make weekday care less safe.

    This strike is about safety, not money.
    With patient safety in mind, do you agree that junior doctors working shorter hours and subsequently gaining less experience, should take longer to progress along the career ladder?
This discussion has been closed.