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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A move against TMay needs to happen in next few days if a succ

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  • Options
    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    @Casino - may I ask why?

    The organs are not harvested by or for the state. But for other individuals who will need them
    More than you, after death.

    I'm very pleased someone has done this. As with the gay marriage legalisation, it is about time.

    Surely the organs should be auctioned off on the free market, and the revenues used to lower the top rate of income tax.
    Well , I know of someone whas already decided to opt out for the simple reason of having no wish to donate organs to Tory voters!
    They sound like the family of racists who wanted their organs to only to go white people.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sean_F said:

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    @Casino - may I ask why?

    The organs are not harvested by or for the state. But for other individuals who will need them
    More than you, after death.

    I'm very pleased someone has done this. As with the gay marriage legalisation, it is about time.

    Surely the organs should be auctioned off on the free market, and the revenues used to lower the top rate of income tax.
    ;)

    I'd missed your free market dogma.
    Poor people should have payment of their benefits made contingent upon organ donation.
    Smokers and drinkers have poor quality organs
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Pulpstar said:

    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    @Casino - may I ask why?

    The organs are not harvested by or for the state. But for other individuals who will need them
    More than you, after death.

    I'm very pleased someone has done this. As with the gay marriage legalisation, it is about time.

    Surely the organs should be auctioned off on the free market, and the revenues used to lower the top rate of income tax.
    Well , I know of someone whas already decided to opt out for the simple reason of having no wish to donate organs to Tory voters!
    Is it you ?
    No
  • Options
    NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 707
    edited October 2017

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294
    edited October 2017
    Kane fluked it
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    @Casino - may I ask why?

    The organs are not harvested by or for the state. But for other individuals who will need them
    More than you, after death.

    I'm very pleased someone has done this. As with the gay marriage legalisation, it is about time.

    Surely the organs should be auctioned off on the free market, and the revenues used to lower the top rate of income tax.
    Well , I know of someone whas already decided to opt out for the simple reason of having no wish to donate organs to Tory voters!
    Unnecessary Justin
    It is not my view!
  • Options
    I was going to do a gag about similarities between tory party conference and england game..Then harry Kane scores...
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections.
    You wouldn't have to - people can just opt out, it surely cannot be beyond people to do that - and there's therefore no confusion over what the recently deceased person wanted.
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    @Casino - may I ask why?

    The organs are not harvested by or for the state. But for other individuals who will need them
    More than you, after death.

    I'm very pleased someone has done this. As with the gay marriage legalisation, it is about time.

    Surely the organs should be auctioned off on the free market, and the revenues used to lower the top rate of income tax.
    Well , I know of someone whas already decided to opt out for the simple reason of having no wish to donate organs to Tory voters!
    Unnecessary Justin
    It is not my view!
    It says more about you and your sad attitude
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    We did great out of the EU, didn't we?
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    @Casino - may I ask why?

    The organs are not harvested by or for the state. But for other individuals who will need them
    More than you, after death.

    I'm very pleased someone has done this. As with the gay marriage legalisation, it is about time.

    Surely the organs should be auctioned off on the free market, and the revenues used to lower the top rate of income tax.
    Well , I know of someone whas already decided to opt out for the simple reason of having no wish to donate organs to Tory voters!
    They sound like the family of racists who wanted their organs to only to go white people.
    To be honest he did say he would rather give them to the cat!
  • Options

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am surprised. Welsh labour have introduced it successfully here
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    If you have a moment take a look at Hansa Medical. Expensive but cool technology
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    @Casino - may I ask why?

    The organs are not harvested by or for the state. But for other individuals who will need them
    More than you, after death.

    I'm very pleased someone has done this. As with the gay marriage legalisation, it is about time.

    Surely the organs should be auctioned off on the free market, and the revenues used to lower the top rate of income tax.
    Well , I know of someone whas already decided to opt out for the simple reason of having no wish to donate organs to Tory voters!
    Unnecessary Justin
    It is not my view!
    It says more about you and your sad attitude
    But it is NOT my view - though it did amuse me.
  • Options
    NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 707

    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    We did great out of the EU, didn't we?
    Weren’t France in the EU too?
  • Options
    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    @Casino - may I ask why?

    The organs are not harvested by or for the state. But for other individuals who will need them
    More than you, after death.

    I'm very pleased someone has done this. As with the gay marriage legalisation, it is about time.

    Surely the organs should be auctioned off on the free market, and the revenues used to lower the top rate of income tax.
    Well , I know of someone whas already decided to opt out for the simple reason of having no wish to donate organs to Tory voters!
    Not sure who's more reprehensible, the person concerned for saying it or you for broadcasting it. The person you know has a serious shortage of humanity.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    John won't be interested in facts; there is so much to do to ready the country for the socialist revolution.
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    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    We did great out of the EU, didn't we?
    No we did great in spite of the EU. Mostly thanks to Thatcherite reforms.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    NeilVW said:

    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    We did great out of the EU, didn't we?
    Weren’t France in the EU too?
    yes, they did very well out of their first 40 years.

    The Germans out did us both.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    We did great out of the EU, didn't we?
    No we did great in spite of the EU. Mostly thanks to Thatcherite reforms.
    Such as forming the Single Market.
  • Options
    NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 707

    NeilVW said:

    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    We did great out of the EU, didn't we?
    Weren’t France in the EU too?
    yes, they did very well out of their first 40 years.

    The Germans out did us both.
    Helped by an undervalued currency locked in from 1999?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,612

    You see that episode of The Thick of It? Where they spend all night trying to come up with someone - *anyone* - less shit to be Prime Minister? Where they scrape through the bottom of the barrel and consider absolutely anyone as PM?

    That's the Tories right now. No matter how shit, how deranged, how repulsive the MP May be, they are better than the PM or the anointed successor.

    The Thick of It now has its own dedicated channel. It's called BBC Parliament.
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    France and the UK seem to have almost the same GDP/capita (PPP). They lag behind most of the other original EU members: Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Austria.

    Eastern and southern Europe haven't caught up with us, but most of the east is doing so. The Czech Republic is ahead on GDP/capita of poor UK regions, like Wales.

    One thing that unites the UK and France?

    1 they both had empires
    2 they believe they are still very important on the world stage.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am surprised. Welsh labour have introduced it successfully here
    A healthy person's organs should absolutely be used to save others...consent shouldn't be an issue. It should be a given. Shame on anyone who would think otherwise.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,432
    edited October 2017
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    tyson said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am surprised. Welsh labour have introduced it successfully here
    A healthy person's organs should absolutely be used to save others...consent shouldn't be an issue. It should be a given. Shame on anyone who would think otherwise.
    Nah, not shame on anyone who disagrees.

    We don't live under a liberal jackboot. That is why an opt out is entirely necessary.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965
    tyson said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am surprised. Welsh labour have introduced it successfully here
    A healthy person's organs should absolutely be used to save others...consent shouldn't be an issue. It should be a given. Shame on anyone who would think otherwise.
    Exception for genuine religious reasons though.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    Interesting that the Guardian's headline on Clegg's comments is:

    Nick Clegg urges voters to join Labour or Tories to keep UK in EU

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/05/nick-clegg-urges-voters-to-join-labour-or-tories-to-keep-uk-in-eu

    While the BBC's is:

    Nick Clegg suggests people join Labour to stop Brexit

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41510253

    I'm not a one for conspiracy theories, but it is interesting how different outlets can find subtle differences in report summaries.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tyson said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am surprised. Welsh labour have introduced it successfully here
    A healthy person's organs should absolutely be used to save others...consent shouldn't be an issue. It should be a given. Shame on anyone who would think otherwise.
    They should be used, but it is a principle of medical consent that it has to be freely given, not presumed or coerced.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    tyson said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am surprised. Welsh labour have introduced it successfully here
    A healthy person's organs should absolutely be used to save others...consent shouldn't be an issue. It should be a given. Shame on anyone who would think otherwise.
    They should be used, but it is a principle of medical consent that it has to be freely given, not presumed or coerced.
    Apparently not a universal principle given its implementation in other areas.
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    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    We did great out of the EU, didn't we?
    No we did great in spite of the EU. Mostly thanks to Thatcherite reforms.
    Such as forming the Single Market.
    Nope, the reforms at home. France was just as much a part of the EU and Single Market as we were so the fact we overtook them so comprehensively shows that EU or Single Market membership had nothing to do with it.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    tyson said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am surprised. Welsh labour have introduced it successfully here
    A healthy person's organs should absolutely be used to save others...consent shouldn't be an issue. It should be a given. Shame on anyone who would think otherwise.
    They should be used, but it is a principle of medical consent that it has to be freely given, not presumed or coerced.
    If we have an opt-out system then the family should still be allowed to opt out after death but I think most families, if they knew their loved one had the opportunity to opt out but didn't would be happy to allow the organ donation to go ahead.

    I would be interested to know how many organs are 'lost' from cases where the deceased wasn't on the register and the family refused consent when asked. I can't imagine its that big a number.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am pleased we are on the same side of the argument for once.

    Good man.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    We did great out of the EU, didn't we?
    No we did great in spite of the EU. Mostly thanks to Thatcherite reforms.
    Such as forming the Single Market.
    Nope, the reforms at home. France was just as much a part of the EU and Single Market as we were so the fact we overtook them so comprehensively shows that EU or Single Market membership had nothing to do with it.
    It demonstrates how we had the sovereignty and ability to implement our own policies within the EU single market, getting a competitive advantage within it.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am pleased we are on the same side of the argument for once.

    Good man.
    I do not see this as a political issue, but rather one of ethics.

    I oppose euthanasia for similar reasons.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332

    GIN1138 said:

    I'm furious about this opt-out for organs. A Conservative Government nationalising our bodies after we die.

    I only expect that sort of shit from the Left.

    That alone should be reason to topple May.


    I actually agree with the opt-out. We need more organ donors and, after all, the deceased has no need for them any more.



    I hear that people/relatives are reluctant to donate but I suspect the main problem (and it's not a problem at all, it's actually a good thing) is that there just aren't as many people dying in scenario's that make organ donations viable?

    For example due to advances in car design, emergency care, trauma care, intensive care, etc. There are fewer people dying in car crashes these days.

    So the gain on the guy who crashes his car at 60mph and lives is the loss of the guy who might have received his heart...
    There are still 17,000 accidental deaths a year in the UK. Yet there are only 3700organ donations after death a year. There is a huge gap to be closed there and I think the opt out idea is perfectly reasonable.

    When you are dead you are dead. The idea that someone else - or even multiple people - might live on because of your organs should be a source of great pride. The fact they might miss out and your organs would rot because you didn't sign a piece of paper seems the ultimate in futility and waste.

    Following a life well lived with a death well died seems a perfect closure.
    Which is a perfectly good argument for asking if more people should opt-in, but not to necessitate an opt-out just to close the numbers.

    There are millions of adults in the UK. And hundreds of thousands who die each year. A well targeted campaign could address this. And it should be the individual's proactive choice.

    Disappointing from you Richard, I thought you were a libertarian.
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    NeilVW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    It's a fascinating battle; the UK, Germany and Spain have all deregulated the labour markets in the last 30 years, and it's been hugely positive for their economies.

    France has resisted every effort at reform, and it's brought successive administrations to a halt. Will Macron succeed where Sarkozy and even Hollande failed?
    And yet France is still about the same as us, economy-wise, and we both lag behind Germany despite that country's workers' councils and state ownership of industry (often partial).
    Our GDP per capita was 80% of France’s in 1979, now about 108%.

    Unemployment is 9.8% in France and 4.3% here.
    We did great out of the EU, didn't we?
    No we did great in spite of the EU. Mostly thanks to Thatcherite reforms.
    Such as forming the Single Market.
    Nope, the reforms at home. France was just as much a part of the EU and Single Market as we were so the fact we overtook them so comprehensively shows that EU or Single Market membership had nothing to do with it.
    It demonstrates how we had the sovereignty and ability to implement our own policies within the EU single market, getting a competitive advantage within it.
    Nope. It simply demonstrates that we had a better government at the time who were able to recognise what reforms were needed. Sovereignty had nothing to do with it at that point. Unfortunately it was after Maastricht that we started to lose control of our ability to decide our own industrial policy. Otherwise we would probably be even further ahead of France.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332

    I will deliberately opt-out on principle.

    Nice one! That'll really stick it to those dying people on the waiting list. Next time they'll certainly think twice about living in a country with a government that offends your principles.

    I think you make my point for me.

    Not only will I do that, I'll encourage everyone I know to opt-out.

    Hmm. "After you die, would you like others to continue to suffer needlessly?"

    I think you're making too much of this (or just trolling us all like RCS's comment).


    I'm deadly serious. This is a high principle to me.

    All the arguments I've seen on here tonight are why people feel strongly more should choose to donate. But that isn't an argument for presuming consent.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    I'm furious about this opt-out for organs. A Conservative Government nationalising our bodies after we die.

    I only expect that sort of shit from the Left.

    That alone should be reason to topple May.

    Worse than that - like the death penalty - it makes the State superior to rather than subordinate to the citizens

    But they're not taken by the state - they're given to your fellow citizens.

    And you can still opt out.

    Nah, I don't buy that. The policy is being advocated purely on the basis that the Government knows that it will automatically increase donations, because people won't be aware or making a conscious decision about it, so their organs will default back to the State. Also, that they can exploit people's psychology over the guilt of opting-out.

    I find that devious and reprehensible.
    I know people who are on dialysis, and it sucks big time. I do see your point, though. This is a case for nudging and offering carrots. National "awareness" days and such are the work of the devil, but I can see a case for an annual push to enrol donors, on the scale of Remembrance day, gay pride week (is it a week?) etc to make it cool to donate.
    Thank you for at least acknowledging my point.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060
    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2017
    I'm with @Casino_Royale on the presumption that your body is a source of spare parts. That is going too far.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332
    edited October 2017

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am pleased we are on the same side of the argument for once.

    Good man.
    I do not see this as a political issue, but rather one of ethics.

    I oppose euthanasia for similar reasons.
    I agree it's an ethical issue. And I agree with you on euthanasia.

    I have slightly conflicted views on the terminally/gravely ill, however, where there is prolonged suffering.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332

    I'm with @Casino_Royale on the presumption that your body is a source of spare parts. That is going too far.

    Thank you.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited October 2017
    tyson said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    I am surprised. Welsh labour have introduced it successfully here
    A healthy person's organs should absolutely be used to save others...consent shouldn't be an issue. It should be a given. Shame on anyone who would think otherwise.
    Presumed consent exists in Wales. Seems uncontroversial here. I don’t have an issue personally at all.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332

    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
    Are we going to spend all night with various pb'ers sticking their oar in on dreadful puns?
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    I expect you could find pictures of most politicians looking like they are making Nazi salutes - or perhaps they are just waving at people in the crowd?
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2017
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lee-nelson-theresa-may-prank-p45-simon-brodkin-should-have-been-stopped-vetting-tories-conservative-a7985511.html

    The key point is that the tory conference security was fine.

    He got in because he was only a harmless prankster.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2017

    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
    Are we going to spend all night with various pb'ers sticking their oar in on dreadful puns?
    It May be. They'll be Hamming it up as the Hunt intensifies for someone to grab the Rudder.

    Are those dreadful enough?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,590
    Charles said:

    Macron tells french workers theyre lazy bastards

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/emmanuel-macron-sparks-furore-telling-protesting-workers-stop/

    have to agree, I used to own the factory !

    Higher productivity than here though.
    What is your view on the organ donor scheme
    I am opposed to the proposal.

    Organ donation is an altruistic act, but the state presuming ownership is a different matter.

    I also do not want to take organs over relatives objections, and if the relatives approve there is no need for a change in the law. The last time organs were taken without consent an masse resulted in the Alder Hey organ scandal.
    If you have a moment take a look at Hansa Medical. Expensive but cool technology
    Interesting company.
    What do you make of Ablynx ?

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    I said the other day, keep your eye on Grant Shapps.


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/916049025299832832
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
    Are we going to spend all night with various pb'ers sticking their oar in on dreadful puns?
    Total and utter rowlocks
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294
    edited October 2017
    Sky poll tonight

    Theresa May -

    52% is weak - 44% is strong

    Those figures are closer than I expected after the hammering she has taken this week

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    Also some are telling Mrs May to sack Boris.
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    Also some are telling Mrs May to sack Boris.

    She could do both, of course.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    Scott_P said:
    You do wonder why she wants to put herself through this all when she could retire to her nice house in Sonning with her husband and live a comfortable retirement - maybe supplemented by the odd job on a company board or two or an international body and some money on the speech circuit
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    Sky poll tonight

    Theresa May -

    52% is weak - 44% is strong

    Those figures are closer than I expected after the hammering she has taken this week

    No kidding - what were they before?!
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332

    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
    Are we going to spend all night with various pb'ers sticking their oar in on dreadful puns?
    It May be. They'll be Hamming it up as the Hunt intensifies for someone to grab the Rudder.

    Are those dreadful enough?
    Nah, you haven't pushed the boat out far enough.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332
    welshowl said:

    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
    Are we going to spend all night with various pb'ers sticking their oar in on dreadful puns?
    Total and utter rowlocks
    Such efforts are likely to earn a stern rebuke.
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    kle4 said:

    Sky poll tonight

    Theresa May -

    52% is weak - 44% is strong

    Those figures are closer than I expected after the hammering she has taken this week

    No kidding - what were they before?!
    I am not sure if they have polled before

    -8 is remarkable - would like to see if 44% thought Corbyn was strong
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    brendan16 said:

    Scott_P said:
    You do wonder why she wants to put herself through this all when she could retire to her nice house in Sonning with her husband and live a comfortable retirement - maybe supplemented by the odd job on a company board or two or an international body and some money on the speech circuit
    If she considers the alternative worse for the country - even in the good times it is not as though being PM is a cushy, no pressure job, when many people who have held the position could have earned a lot more and had easier lives by avoiding it.

    Of course, parties and their leaders often get to the point where they justify anything, any u-turn or cock up, on the grounds the alternative would be worse, but sometimes it is true, though May is so lacking in authority it is hard to see.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2017
    A nephrologist friend who had been attending a conference in India told me an anecdote. He caught a taxi in Chennai, and when the driver learned he was a nephrologist told a tale.

    The driver had been an impoverished rickshaw driver, renting his rickshaw. He sold a kidney to buy his own taxi, and now earned enough to send his kids to school, and clothed and fed. He now had a life and business.

    This gave my friend much pause for thought. Such an act would be illegal here, but should it be?

    Paid for living kidney recipients are not unusual in Leicester. People travel to India then return. The surgery is often well done, the tissue matching and immunosuppression much less so. The rate of renal failure in British Asians is a lot higher than white British, mostly from diabetes.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    I'm with @Casino_Royale on the presumption that your body is a source of spare parts. That is going too far.

    Or in practical terms, you would rather that people die than a dead body be deprived of something for which it has no further use.

    I wholeheartedly support this reform, and think that those who opt out should go to the back of the queue for transplants.

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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
    Are we going to spend all night with various pb'ers sticking their oar in on dreadful puns?
    Total and utter rowlocks
    Such efforts are likely to earn a stern rebuke.
    Take a bow for that one.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    brendan16 said:

    Scott_P said:
    You do wonder why she wants to put herself through this all when she could retire to her nice house in Sonning with her husband and live a comfortable retirement - maybe supplemented by the odd job on a company board or two or an international body and some money on the speech circuit
    The speech circuit!?
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
    Are we going to spend all night with various pb'ers sticking their oar in on dreadful puns?
    It May be. They'll be Hamming it up as the Hunt intensifies for someone to grab the Rudder.

    Are those dreadful enough?
    Nah, you haven't pushed the boat out far enough.

    I'm not going to join in, but if I did mine would be masterful.

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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Scott_P said:
    Sounds like they don't have the numbers and are trying to be smoke her out.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    Cyclefree said:

    brendan16 said:

    Scott_P said:
    You do wonder why she wants to put herself through this all when she could retire to her nice house in Sonning with her husband and live a comfortable retirement - maybe supplemented by the odd job on a company board or two or an international body and some money on the speech circuit
    The speech circuit!?
    Well, perhaps the offers wouldn't be flooding in right at this moment, but these bankers and financiers and the rest seem to adore paying absurd amounts of money to hear mediocre public speakers talk at them for an hour, so I'm sure she could get some bookings.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    edited October 2017
    May should announce a party confidence motion

    Williamson should know if they have the numbers or not.
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    RoyalBlue said:

    Or in practical terms, you would rather that people die than a dead body be deprived of something for which it has no further use.

    Might as well mince up the dead and use them as catfood, then. That would be a carbon-efficient recycling for those chunks of organic compounds which the former owner no longer needs.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965

    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
    Are we going to spend all night with various pb'ers sticking their oar in on dreadful puns?
    It May be. They'll be Hamming it up as the Hunt intensifies for someone to grab the Rudder.

    Are those dreadful enough?
    Only if she were to Fallon her sword.
    Coat, please!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    RoyalBlue said:

    Or in practical terms, you would rather that people die than a dead body be deprived of something for which it has no further use.

    Might as well mince up the dead and use them as catfood, then. That would be a carbon-efficient recycling for those chunks of organic compounds which the former owner no longer needs.
    Ah, we have found that slippery slope.
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    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    Mortimer said:

    Scott_P said:
    Sounds like they don't have the numbers and are trying to be smoke her out.
    Graham Brady's deputy (name escapes me) more or less told Sky News that they don't have the numbers.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    Or in practical terms, you would rather that people die than a dead body be deprived of something for which it has no further use.

    Might as well mince up the dead and use them as catfood, then. That would be a carbon-efficient recycling for those chunks of organic compounds which the former owner no longer needs.
    That's a ridiculous comparison. We are not short of catfood; we are short of viable organs for transplant.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
    Are we going to spend all night with various pb'ers sticking their oar in on dreadful puns?
    It May be. They'll be Hamming it up as the Hunt intensifies for someone to grab the Rudder.

    Are those dreadful enough?
    Priti terrible....
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817

    I said the other day, keep your eye on Grant Shapps.


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/916049025299832832


    What's Michael Green doing now?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965

    RoyalBlue said:

    Or in practical terms, you would rather that people die than a dead body be deprived of something for which it has no further use.

    Might as well mince up the dead and use them as catfood, then. That would be a carbon-efficient recycling for those chunks of organic compounds which the former owner no longer needs.
    Think we have a philosophical argument here. I would be happy to be cat food. I would have a sky burial. I see my body as a complex series of organic compounds I temporarily utilise.
    I realise others may differ.
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    RoyalBlue said:

    That's a ridiculous comparison. We are not short of catfood; we are short of viable organs for transplant.

    The end justifies the means, eh?
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2017
    May & Hammond f*cked.

    See the FT.

    Odds on she'll be gone by xmas, IMO.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    RoyalBlue said:

    That's a ridiculous comparison. We are not short of catfood; we are short of viable organs for transplant.

    The end justifies the means, eh?
    Often, yes. But it doesn't mean always, there's a balance. We're just arguing over where the line is.
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    Pong said:

    May & Hammond f*cked.

    See the FT.

    Odds on she'll be gone by xmas, IMO.

    The FT have been anti May all along - they do not want Brexit
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    "The only question being asked that matters in British - nay European - politics tonight: does Mrs May survive?"

    No wonder the Europeans get pissed of with us from time to time. Does Mr Neil not consider that "WTF is going to happen in Catalonia that we'll be forced to take a position on sooner or later even though we really really wish it would just go away?" might matter a bit more to Europeans other than those living on these sceptered isles?
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    You should see the puns I've got planned if Ruth Davidson becomes PM.

    Which reminds me, you can be said to be ruthless, but can you be ruth?
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359

    A nephrologist friend who had been attending a conference in India told me an anecdote. He caught a taxi in Chennai, and when the driver learned he was a nephrologist told a tale.

    The driver had been an impoverished rickshaw driver, renting his rickshaw. He sold a kidney to buy his own taxi, and now earned enough to send his kids to school, and clothed and fed. He now had a life and business.

    This gave my friend much pause for thought. Such an act would be illegal here, but should it be?

    Paid for living kidney recipients are not unusual in Leicester. People travel to India then return. The surgery is often well done, the tissue matching and immunosuppression much less so. The rate of renal failure in British Asians is a lot higher than white British, mostly from diabetes.

    The internet tells me that the cost of an Indian kidney is about $5k against a median income of about $1.5k. I can see the attraction for a poorer Indian but, at $5k, I'm not sure that there would be that many willing donors here.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    I'm certain Philip and Tezza will reach the decision together. Don't think there will be any need for blood-letting to try and get her out... She'll stand down and that'll be it.

    The blood-letting will be in the contest that follows.
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    DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093

    welshowl said:

    dr_spyn said:

    If the PM sacks her, will it be a rudderless government?
    You can imagine the conversations in cabinet. "Will you tiller or shall I?"
    Are we going to spend all night with various pb'ers sticking their oar in on dreadful puns?
    Total and utter rowlocks
    Such efforts are likely to earn a stern rebuke.
    Take a bow.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    RoyalBlue said:

    Or in practical terms, you would rather that people die than a dead body be deprived of something for which it has no further use.

    Might as well mince up the dead and use them as catfood, then. That would be a carbon-efficient recycling for those chunks of organic compounds which the former owner no longer needs.
    It's much more betterer for the environment if the carbon is locked in place by burial.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Nice subliminal cover on the Times.
This discussion has been closed.