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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mrs May has missed an opportunity and it could be costly

It was Abba Eban who said of the Palestinians that “they never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.” However true this may or may not be of the Palestinians, it is certainly true of Mrs May. One Cabinet resignation does not have to lead to a full-scale reshuffle, of course, particularly if the PM cannot be certain how many of the possible candidates have been guilty of knee touching, knee tremblers or any other variety of sexual activity. But however fearful she may have been of instigating a reshuffle, when presented with the opportunity for one, why the craven timidity? Well, we can all guess why: fear for her job, a loss of confidence ever since her ill-fated General Election gamble, an unwillingness to trust outside a small circle and, probably most important of all, a failure to grasp two important lessons from the election.

Read the full story here

Beverley_C

First!

RobD

Second!

TheScreamingEagles

You had me at Abba.

TOPPING

Careful - mention of Abba Eban without concomitant condemnation will bring @Roger out in a muck sweat.

RobD

Great header, thanks!

Beverley_C

I find myself amazed at thinking that Marx may well have had a point. In its current state, I am not sure our political system is fixable. It may very well need to be destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up.

Cyclefree

TheScreamingEagles said:

You had me at Abba.

S.O.S? Or "Lay all your love on me"?

Beverley_C

Cyclefree said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

You had me at Abba.

S.O.S? Or "Lay all your love on me"?

The 2nd one is now banned. Kindly report yourself to Purity Control

TheScreamingEagles

Cyclefree said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

You had me at Abba.

S.O.S? Or "Lay all your love on me"?

Waterloo or Dancing Queen.

Cyclefree

Beverley_C said:

Cyclefree said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

You had me at Abba.

S.O.S? Or "Lay all your love on me"?

The 2nd one is now banned. Kindly report yourself to Purity Control

Ah.... Take a Chance on Me.

Cyclefree

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

You had me at Abba.

S.O.S? Or "Lay all your love on me"?

Waterloo or Dancing Queen.

Love isn't Easy (But it Sure is Hard Enough). Coming to a Parliament near you.

Big_G_NorthWales

Very good article and I was really hoping that Fallon and even Green going would open a window for inspired choice of successors. TM failed the test and, as generally a sympathetic supporter in all her troubles, this has disappointed me

Beverley_C

Cyclefree said:

Beverley_C said:

Cyclefree said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

You had me at Abba.

S.O.S? Or "Lay all your love on me"?

The 2nd one is now banned. Kindly report yourself to Purity Control

Ah.... Take a Chance on Me.

When All Is Said And Done, you will soon be Under Attack

tpfkar

Is that David Lidington with the awesome nose? I'd never noticed it in profile.

Pong

It would be interesting to have some polling on this new sexual puritanism.

Yorkcity

Cyclefree said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

You had me at Abba.

S.O.S? Or "Lay all your love on me"?

Waterloo or Dancing Queen.

Love isn't Easy (But it Sure is Hard Enough). Coming to a Parliament near you.

I think the ones in trouble are knowing me knowing you.

rpjs

Beverley_C said:

I find myself amazed at thinking that Marx may well have had a point. In its current state, I am not sure our political system is fixable. It may very well need to be destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up.

This does feel like the farcical repeat of the Major administration, although I recall that as being pretty farcical too.

kle4

Pulpstar said:

kle4 said:

Quick braintrust question - how much is a decent amount of spending money for someone of modest means about to go on holiday in China for 10 days?

Whereabouts in China are you going ?

You'll need more in a 5* hotel in Hong Kong compared to a hostel in Kunming..

It's a standard tour deal to beking, shanghai and xian, nice but not fancy hotels I imagine. I'm thinking just how much cash is generally advisable.

PeterMannion said:

brendan16 said:

Yorkcity said:

It was much easier in the last parliament , when you could sack someone for a tweet showing a picture of an England flag.

I think the point in that case was that the shadow foreign secretary was sneering and looking down her nose at people who displayed England flags on their homes.

Or was she?

I think she was, although I didn't think she deserved the sack for it.

stevef said:

I believe there is a massive reconstruction of parties that will come if Corbyn gets his hands on power. It will be the end of the Labour Party. And no, it will not be a rebirth of the Lib Dems -they toxified themselves tenfold in the coalition. But there will be a new party.

People predicting a reconstruction like that, well, it sounds a good idea but I just cannot see it.

Sean_F

Pong said:

It would be interesting to have some polling on this new sexual puritanism.

There's a poll up on the Yougov website, which shows very big differences in peoples' views over what constitutes some forms of sexual harassment.

Sean_F

I wonder how Abba Eban would have fared today, with his jokes, such as "There's no business like Shoah business."

kle4

How much of the tory vote is a not Corbyn vote? Important question. My total guess is it is worth a few percent, but in the right place that can be crucial.

anothernick

Beverley_C said:

I find myself amazed at thinking that Marx may well have had a point. In its current state, I am not sure our political system is fixable. It may very well need to be destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up.

Which is what the Brexiteer Leninists are clearly about. Destroy everything in the hope that something better will arise in its place.

oxfordsimon

kle4 said:

How much of the tory vote is a not Corbyn vote? Important question. My total guess is it is worth a few percent, but in the right place that can be crucial.

I suspect another key factor will be how the LDs and SNP react to the question of whether they would support Corbyn in minority situation.

Vote Cable/Sturgeon, Get Corbyn might well swing some votes.

Yorkcity

Can you be reported now for listening to Rock and Roll ( part 1 & 2 ) ?

Beverley_C

anothernick said:

Beverley_C said:

I find myself amazed at thinking that Marx may well have had a point. In its current state, I am not sure our political system is fixable. It may very well need to be destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up.

Which is what the Brexiteer Leninists are clearly about. Destroy everything in the hope that something better will arise in its place.

It is not necessarily Brexit, although that plays its part. The internal devolution mess is not really sorted out either, the Boundary Reviews mess, the Upper House needs sorting, etc.

We seem to have a collection of shambles.

rottenborough

Good header CycleFree:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/926459965358903301

rottenborough

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

TheScreamingEagles

Yorkcity said:

Can you be reported now for listening to Rock and Roll ( part 1 & 2 ) ?

I wonder about the literally seminal song 'I Touch Myself' by The Divinyls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv-34w8kGPM

I had no idea about this song until it was mentioned on Buffy: The Vampire Slayer.

Beverley_C

Pong said:

It would be interesting to have some polling on this new sexual puritanism.

It is not really Sexual Puritanism. It is more like "Can you please stop sexually harrassing me?"

Cyclefree

rottenborough said:

Good header CycleFree:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/926459965358903301

Blimey: I'm being quoted by journalists now....... I need to lie down.

TheScreamingEagles

Cyclefree said:

rottenborough said:

Good header CycleFree:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/926459965358903301

Blimey: I'm being quoted by journalists now....... I need to lie down.

During my first stint as guest editor back in 2012, I had no idea how well I was doing, then John Rentoul tweeted a few of my pieces, and I thought, yup, I'm doing well.

kinabalu

And yet and yet. If they can keep the show on the road somehow, play the long game, get past Brexit without imploding and then select a leader with some popular appeal, I can quite see the tories winning the next GE. They only need a dozen more seats and they will probably be facing someone who I got the strong sense was peaking when he headlined Glastonbury. On the betting, you can lay JC at 5/1 on BF for 'next PM after May' and that IMO is a great trade. You lose only if (i) May leads the tories into the next GE and (ii) she loses it to Corbyn. That double I make more like 12/1.

oxfordsimon

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

That is slightly over-stating things by the Greens (quelle surprise)

At 16 you can't get married in England without parental consent. The same applies to joining the Army.

So the top two things on their list, you can't do without your parents agreeing.

Pong

Beverley_C said:

Pong said:

It would be interesting to have some polling on this new sexual puritanism.

It is not really Sexual Puritanism. It is more like "Can you please stop sexually harrassing me?"

I was being provocative

The polling is the interesting thing.

kyf_100

kinabalu said:

And yet and yet. If they can keep the show on the road somehow, play the long game, get past Brexit without imploding and then select a leader with some popular appeal, I can quite see the tories winning the next GE. They only need a dozen more seats and they will probably be facing someone who I got the strong sense was peaking when he headlined Glastonbury. On the betting, you can lay JC at 5/1 on BF for 'next PM after May' and that IMO is a great trade. You lose only if (i) May leads the tories into the next GE and (ii) she loses it to Corbyn. That double I make more like 12/1.

Good betting post.

Rhubarb

kinabalu said:

And yet and yet. If they can keep the show on the road somehow, play the long game, get past Brexit without imploding and then select a leader with some popular appeal, I can quite see the tories winning the next GE. They only need a dozen more seats and they will probably be facing someone who I got the strong sense was peaking when he headlined Glastonbury. On the betting, you can lay JC at 5/1 on BF for 'next PM after May' and that IMO is a great trade. You lose only if (i) May leads the tories into the next GE and (ii) she loses it to Corbyn. That double I make more like 12/1.

Matt Singh posted some interesting graphs of approval this morning.

https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/926423815478968322

https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/926428161482592258

Scott_P

kinabalu said:

And yet and yet. If they can keep the show on the road somehow, play the long game, get past Brexit without imploding

Hold on, I think I see a problem. Yes, right there...

tlg86

oxfordsimon said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

That is slightly over-stating things by the Greens (quelle surprise)

At 16 you can't get married in England without parental consent. The same applies to joining the Army.

So the top two things on their list, you can't do without your parents agreeing.

So perhaps they should get the vote, but only if their parents agree?

anothernick

kinabalu said:

And yet and yet. If they can keep the show on the road somehow, play the long game, get past Brexit without imploding and then select a leader with some popular appeal, .

But the chances of them being able to do any of those things, let alone all of them, is very slim indeed.

surbiton

oxfordsimon said:

kle4 said:

How much of the tory vote is a not Corbyn vote? Important question. My total guess is it is worth a few percent, but in the right place that can be crucial.

I suspect another key factor will be how the LDs and SNP react to the question of whether they would support Corbyn in minority situation.

Vote Cable/Sturgeon, Get Corbyn might well swing some votes.

They tried it last time and more. In Scotland, in many seats, the Tories will be hoping that those voting SNP keep on voting SNP. About 20 seats could go Labour from the SNP with 3.5% swing.

kyf_100

Scott_P said:

kinabalu said:

And yet and yet. If they can keep the show on the road somehow, play the long game, get past Brexit without imploding

Hold on, I think I see a problem. Yes, right there...

What's to stop Labour imploding over the same issue? Fact is, a heck of a lot of Labour voters voted to Leave. Corbyn knows he has to keep them on side to win the next election, even if it means going against the wishes of most of his core of supporters and wider party membership.

oxfordsimon

tlg86 said:

oxfordsimon said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

That is slightly over-stating things by the Greens (quelle surprise)

At 16 you can't get married in England without parental consent. The same applies to joining the Army.

So the top two things on their list, you can't do without your parents agreeing.

So perhaps they should get the vote, but only if their parents agree?

Let's just move everything up to 18 - much easier then.

oxfordsimon

surbiton said:

oxfordsimon said:

kle4 said:

How much of the tory vote is a not Corbyn vote? Important question. My total guess is it is worth a few percent, but in the right place that can be crucial.

I suspect another key factor will be how the LDs and SNP react to the question of whether they would support Corbyn in minority situation.

Vote Cable/Sturgeon, Get Corbyn might well swing some votes.

They tried it last time and more. In Scotland, in many seats, the Tories will be hoping that those voting SNP keep on voting SNP. About 20 seats could go Labour from the SNP with 3.5% swing.

It would have to be a more nuanced approach - constituency by constituency. But as the Corbyn threat is now greater than it was - given the exceeding of expectations this year - we will see action in this sort of way.

RochdalePioneers

TheScreamingEagles said:

I had no idea about this song until it was mentioned on Buffy: The Vampire Slayer.

"It was terrible. I moped over you for months. Sitting in my room listening to that Divinyls song "I Touch Myself". Of course, I had no idea what it was about"

Morris_Dancer

Indeed, Miss Cyclefree. May, yet again, had an opportunity and screwed it up.

Scott_P

kyf_100 said:

What's to stop Labour imploding over the same issue? Fact is, a heck of a lot of Labour voters voted to Leave. Corbyn knows he has to keep them on side to win the next election, even if it means going against the wishes of most of his core of supporters and wider party membership.

That's a reasonable question, except Labour should have imploded multiple times since Corbyn took over and hasn't.

Members will keep voting for the myth they have invested in the man, and voters will keep voting for the brand.

Neither of them need to measure up to reality, apparently.

Independent_Colin

If I may point out to the Green Party that 5 year olds spending their pocket money on chocolate or ice cream or crisps pay tax.

Pong

Sean_F said:

Pong said:

It would be interesting to have some polling on this new sexual puritanism.

There's a poll up on the Yougov website, which shows very big differences in peoples' views over what constitutes some forms of sexual harassment.

Thanks. Really interesting.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/6use40wjdi/SexualHarassment_Oct17.pdf

It's frustratingly heterosexual. Female on male harassment questions are absent, too.

Pong wantz proppa data.

A full UK sexual attitudes survey would be awesome.

DecrepitJohnL

Beverley_C said:

I find myself amazed at thinking that Marx may well have had a point. In its current state, I am not sure our political system is fixable. It may very well need to be destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up.

Two days from November the Fifth and you use Marx to exemplify radical parliamentary reform!! Did Michael Gove's reform of the history syllabus die in vain?

anothernick

kyf_100 said:

Scott_P said:

kinabalu said:

And yet and yet. If they can keep the show on the road somehow, play the long game, get past Brexit without imploding

Hold on, I think I see a problem. Yes, right there...

What's to stop Labour imploding over the same issue? Fact is, a heck of a lot of Labour voters voted to Leave. Corbyn knows he has to keep them on side to win the next election, even if it means going against the wishes of most of his core of supporters and wider party membership.

Labour voters are not generally as obsessive about the EU as many Tories. To many Labour leavers their loyalty to Labour trumps their support for leave. It's hardly the world's most closely guarded secret that :Labour favours a much softer approach to Brexit than the Tories.

Independent_Colin

Independent_Colin said:

If I may point out to the Green Party that 5 year olds spending their pocket money on chocolate or ice cream or crisps pay tax.

Perhaps I ought to tell my 5 year old nephew that a "Mars a day helps you work, rest and pay for your education."

Beverley_C

DecrepitJohnL said:

Beverley_C said:

I find myself amazed at thinking that Marx may well have had a point. In its current state, I am not sure our political system is fixable. It may very well need to be destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up.

Two days from November the Fifth and you use Marx to exemplify radical parliamentary reform!! Did Michael Gove's reform of the history syllabus die in vain?

Michael Gove was probably still in short trousers when I last did history in school....

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Pong, that's unsurprising, yet also rather depressing.

Beverley_C

Cyclefree said:

rottenborough said:

Good header CycleFree:

twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/926459965358903301

Blimey: I'm being quoted by journalists now....... I need to lie down.

You are one of the Establishment now. We may need to start attacking you......

Tissue_Price

tlg86 said:

oxfordsimon said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

That is slightly over-stating things by the Greens (quelle surprise)

At 16 you can't get married in England without parental consent. The same applies to joining the Army.

So the top two things on their list, you can't do without your parents agreeing.

So perhaps they should get the vote, but only if their parents agree?

This is part of my proposal (or at least option for discussion). Give everyone a vote, but have parents exercise it on their behalf until 18/16 (a half-vote each guardian - a full vote if sole custody).

kyf_100

Scott_P said:

kyf_100 said:

What's to stop Labour imploding over the same issue? Fact is, a heck of a lot of Labour voters voted to Leave. Corbyn knows he has to keep them on side to win the next election, even if it means going against the wishes of most of his core of supporters and wider party membership.

That's a reasonable question, except Labour should have imploded multiple times since Corbyn took over and hasn't.

Members will keep voting for the myth they have invested in the man, and voters will keep voting for the brand.

Neither of them need to measure up to reality, apparently.

Fair point.

oxfordsimon

Tissue_Price said:

tlg86 said:

oxfordsimon said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

That is slightly over-stating things by the Greens (quelle surprise)

At 16 you can't get married in England without parental consent. The same applies to joining the Army.

So the top two things on their list, you can't do without your parents agreeing.

So perhaps they should get the vote, but only if their parents agree?

This is part of my proposal (or at least option for discussion). Give everyone a vote, but have parents exercise it on their behalf until 18/16 (a half-vote each guardian - a full vote if sole custody).

Are you serious? I do not believe giving parents/guardians an extra vote is the way to improve democracy.

18 is a perfectly acceptable age to take on adult responsibilities. I would be quite content to see that extend to most if not all of the things in the Green list.

Pulpstar

Tissue_Price said:

tlg86 said:

oxfordsimon said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

That is slightly over-stating things by the Greens (quelle surprise)

At 16 you can't get married in England without parental consent. The same applies to joining the Army.

So the top two things on their list, you can't do without your parents agreeing.

So perhaps they should get the vote, but only if their parents agree?

This is part of my proposal (or at least option for discussion). Give everyone a vote, but have parents exercise it on their behalf until 18/16 (a half-vote each guardian - a full vote if sole custody).

Wait, that gives parents too many votes

Yorkcity

Morris_Dancer said:

Indeed, Miss Cyclefree. May, yet again, had an opportunity and screwed it up.

How so Morris ? I think upto now May has done very well over all the current allegations.It must be difficult to ascertain the veracity of all the allegations.

Morris_Dancer

Betting Post

F1: for what it's worth, I've made some early bets with small stakes.

My view is that the Renault engine is critical. If it's on song next year then Alonso at 12 each way (Ladbrokes, odds boosted [weirdly, this is also working for each way bets]) is the best value by a mile. Also backed Vandoorne at 81 each way on the basis that Australia tends to be good for McLaren and whilst he's unlikely to be on terms with Alonso, that equates to 17 to be top 3, which is possible.

I've also backed Bottas at 16 each way. If it's Mercedes versus Ferrari, or if reliability of the Renault is as poor as this year, he's almost nailed on to be top 3 at 4 (as with Vandoorne, that's fifth the odds for top 3).

The short odds on Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen and Ricciardo do not appeal. If Hamilton wins, the Bottas bet is likely to come off at better odds. If Renault step up their game, McLaren are far better value than Red Bull.

If/when the Constructors' comes up I'll look at Red Bull, as their driver pairing is the most balanced. It'll be them or Mercedes, in my view.

logical_song

https://twitter.com/garystreeterSWD/status/925751265027600384?t=1+1509722243204&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email&iid=6649c6ba78f84ab1934436708af01f9b&uid=257829483&nid=244+272699400

Morris_Dancer

Mr. City, there's a need for fresh blood.

Sandpit

oxfordsimon said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

That is slightly over-stating things by the Greens (quelle surprise)

At 16 you can't get married in England without parental consent. The same applies to joining the Army.

So the top two things on their list, you can't do without your parents agreeing.

Can’t pilot a glider without parental consent either, if under 18.

3/5 they’ve got wrong.

As well as vote, you can’t buy cigarettes, alcohol or knives, enter a nightclub, a sex shop or a bookmakers, or sign a contact or take out a mortgage until you’re 18.

logical_song

Yorkcity said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Indeed, Miss Cyclefree. May, yet again, had an opportunity and screwed it up.

How so Morris ? I think upto now May has done very well over all the current allegations.It must be difficult to ascertain the veracity of all the allegations.

That misses the point. She had a Minister to appoint and chose the wrong one.

The_Apocalypse

https://twitter.com/richardjgodwin/status/926426315569483776
Reminds me of Edwina Currie on This Week yesterday.

TonyE

tlg86 said:

oxfordsimon said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

That is slightly over-stating things by the Greens (quelle surprise)

At 16 you can't get married in England without parental consent. The same applies to joining the Army.

So the top two things on their list, you can't do without your parents agreeing.

So perhaps they should get the vote, but only if their parents agree?

Or only if they're married soldiers.

Yorkcity

logical_song said:

Yorkcity said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Indeed, Miss Cyclefree. May, yet again, had an opportunity and screwed it up.

How so Morris ? I think upto now May has done very well over all the current allegations.It must be difficult to ascertain the veracity of all the allegations.

That misses the point. She had a Minister to appoint and chose the wrong one.

Maybe I do not know.However Michael Portillo said he still has close contact with the conservative party and they told him they were impressed with the new defence secretary.

DavidL

In fairness this article may prove to be a little premature. We need to wait to see what the Sunday papers have to say before we conclude that the cabinet is going to be largely unchanged. If May gets past that with no more collateral damage then she can probably struggle on a bit longer.

Yorkcity

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. City, there's a need for fresh blood.

Morris true but the new defence secretary from what I have seen and heard , seems a bright clever person.

YellowSubmarine

It's an interesting header by Cyclefree but Gavin Williamson ticks nearly all of the suggested boxes. He's 41, only entered parliament 7 years ago, sits for a Staffordshire seat, went to a comprehensive school then a northern redbrick University and study Social Science. Superficially he is exactly the sort of demographic and fresh face Ms Cyclefree thinks should be promoted. He has been and has gone down like the Hindenberg is some quarters. So clearly demographic change alone isn't enough.

Cyclefree

The_Apocalypse said:

https://twitter.com/richardjgodwin/status/926426315569483776
Reminds me of Edwina Currie on This Week yesterday.

I am much older than Ms Irwin and I don't give a shrug and ignore this stuff. It's too pat to put it like that. Women who worked in the 1960's and 1970's and 1980's had to put up with a lot and there were lots of battles to fight. It is as a result of those battles that women now are in a better position to fight against this sort of stuff because the climate has changed. Those older women also did their bit to change the climate.

I think it's also true that because you had to put up with stuff that you would not tolerate now you developed a thicker skin and got on with it. Choose your battles is wise advice in lots of walks of life. And in calling out the bad behaviour of others, it's important, IMO, not to let the boundaries of your own life be limited by the word "victim" and all that that entails. It's the actions of those who behave badly who should be constrained not your own life.

anothernick

logical_song said:

https://twitter.com/garystreeterSWD/status/925751265027600384?t=1+1509722243204&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email&iid=6649c6ba78f84ab1934436708af01f9b&uid=257829483&nid=244+272699400

The Tories have been split over Europe for decades. They could have resolved it by fighting it out amonsgt themselves but no leader had the courage to lead the charge so they decided to split the country instead.

PeterMannion

The_Apocalypse said:

https://twitter.com/richardjgodwin/status/926426315569483776
Reminds me of Edwina Currie on This Week yesterday.

She was wearing someone else's teeth IIRC

Tissue_Price

oxfordsimon said:

Tissue_Price said:

tlg86 said:

oxfordsimon said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

That is slightly over-stating things by the Greens (quelle surprise)

At 16 you can't get married in England without parental consent. The same applies to joining the Army.

So the top two things on their list, you can't do without your parents agreeing.

So perhaps they should get the vote, but only if their parents agree?

This is part of my proposal (or at least option for discussion). Give everyone a vote, but have parents exercise it on their behalf until 18/16 (a half-vote each guardian - a full vote if sole custody).

Are you serious? I do not believe giving parents/guardians an extra vote is the way to improve democracy.

18 is a perfectly acceptable age to take on adult responsibilities. I would be quite content to see that extend to most if not all of the things in the Green list.

Well, serious about discussing it. The point of politics is to take decisions now for both the present and the future, informed by the past. The future seems to be underweighted in our present setup.

kle4

Cyclefree said:

rottenborough said:

Good header CycleFree:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/926459965358903301

Blimey: I'm being quoted by journalists now....... I need to lie down.

I'm certain Rentoul has quoted you before.

kle4

Independent_Colin said:

If I may point out to the Green Party that 5 year olds spending their pocket money on chocolate or ice cream or crisps pay tax.

Ice cream isn't exempt?!

More seriously the arguments are superficially very convincing.

Cyclefree

YellowSubmarine said:

It's an interesting header by Cyclefree but Gavin Williamson ticks nearly all of the suggested boxes. He's 41, only entered parliament 7 years ago, sits for a Staffordshire seat, went to a comprehensive school then a northern redbrick University and study Social Science. Superficially he is exactly the sort of demographic and fresh face Ms Cyclefree thinks should be promoted. He has been and has gone down like the Hindenberg is some quarters. So clearly demographic change alone isn't enough.

I think more changes were needed. Not just one. Maybe more will happen as @DavidL suggests. I think the Tories, when they think about the changes needed, are being very complacent indeed.

FrancisUrquhart

Labour activist 'felt isolated' over complaint made against MP

Good job corbyn dealt with this swiftly and didn't promote the guy and cover up the complaint....

YellowSubmarine

@Tissue_Price Some demographics have vastly more children that others. Some people can't have children or have lost their children. Your suggestion means some folk will have 10 votes and others 1. You might as well advocate bring back the Property and University franchises. Or weighting voting power by Gross tax contribution. Or age.

Nigelb

YellowSubmarine said:

It's an interesting header by Cyclefree but Gavin Williamson ticks nearly all of the suggested boxes. He's 41, only entered parliament 7 years ago, sits for a Staffordshire seat, went to a comprehensive school then a northern redbrick University and study Social Science. Superficially he is exactly the sort of demographic and fresh face Ms Cyclefree thinks should be promoted. He has been and has gone down like the Hindenberg is some quarters. So clearly demographic change alone isn't enough.

Yes, but being virtually unknown, and introduced to the public as a calculating backstabber (possibly one of the more polite things that's been said about him), isn't exactly the best of starts - and political reputations get set in stone quite rapidly.

AlastairMeeks

The Conservatives need to ask themselves what they stand for. Right now I can honestly say that I have no idea what they stand for other than hating the EU.

Tissue_Price

YellowSubmarine said:

It's an interesting header by Cyclefree but Gavin Williamson ticks nearly all of the suggested boxes. He's 41, only entered parliament 7 years ago, sits for a Staffordshire seat, went to a comprehensive school then a northern redbrick University and study Social Science. Superficially he is exactly the sort of demographic and fresh face Ms Cyclefree thinks should be promoted. He has been and has gone down like the Hindenberg is some quarters. So clearly demographic change alone isn't enough.

Ah, but this was not the promotion many were looking for. (Happy to reserve judgment myself!)

A very good header, @Cyclefree. We ought to be able to appeal to the younger generation who have grown up in a world full of technological innovation, new marketplaces and multiple careers. They're not hungering for 1970s style unionised jobs-for-life. True, Brexit is a cultural complication: we need to reassure people that we aren't seeking to re-enact the 1950s either.

But we have to communicate properly using the right people. The working assumption was that there would have been a relatively substantial reshuffle, post-May winning a 50+ majority. It can't be postponed much longer, but the present unedifying spectacle may need to be played out first.

FF43

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

I flew the votes at 16 idea past PB some some months ago and was astonished by the general hostility to the idea. It's in situ and completely uncontroversial in Scotland with even the Conservatives on board.

calum

kle4 said:

Independent_Colin said:

If I may point out to the Green Party that 5 year olds spending their pocket money on chocolate or ice cream or crisps pay tax.

Ice cream isn't exempt?!

More seriously the arguments are superficially very convincing.

How about 16 to vote in Local & Devolved - then 18 for GE

Richard_Nabavi

YellowSubmarine said:

@Tissue_Price Some demographics have vastly more children that others. Some people can't have children or have lost their children. Your suggestion means some folk will have 10 votes and others 1. You might as well advocate bring back the Property and University franchises. Or weighting voting power by Gross tax contribution. Or age.

Four excellent suggestions!

Tissue_Price

YellowSubmarine said:

@Tissue_Price Some demographics have vastly more children that others. Some people can't have children or have lost their children. Your suggestion means some folk will have 10 votes and others 1. You might as well advocate bring back the Property and University franchises. Or weighting voting power by Gross tax contribution. Or age.

I don't think your comparisons are like-for-like at all (age comes closest). I am simply advocating one person = one vote.

MarkHopkins

Perhaps 16/17 year olds who go out to work and pay tax should get a vote?

RobD

Richard_Nabavi said:

YellowSubmarine said:

@Tissue_Price Some demographics have vastly more children that others. Some people can't have children or have lost their children. Your suggestion means some folk will have 10 votes and others 1. You might as well advocate bring back the Property and University franchises. Or weighting voting power by Gross tax contribution. Or age.

Four excellent suggestions!

Missing gender, but you can’t win them all I suppose...

rkrkrk

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

I flew the votes at 16 idea past PB some some months ago and was astonished by the general hostility to the idea. It's in situ and completely uncontroversial in Scotland with even the Conservatives on board.

Cocky of Cameron not to use it in the EU referendum. Obviously thought he would win anyway.

FrancisUrquhart

Radio r5 introduced their phone in this morning on this with hilarious impartiality...Do you think 16 years should get the vote? Are you a 16 year old who thinks they are being denied their human right by not being allowed to vote...call us now...

Any mention of the other side of the argument in the preamble...Don't be silly.

tlg86

MarkHopkins said:

Perhaps 16/17 year olds who go out to work and pay tax should get a vote?

Or perhaps they shouldn't pay tax.

surbiton

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

I flew the votes at 16 idea past PB some some months ago and was astonished by the general hostility to the idea. It's in situ and completely uncontroversial in Scotland with even the Conservatives on board.

You cannot vote but you can die for your country!

RobD

FrancisUrquhart said:

Radio r5 introduced their phone in this morning on this with hilarious impartiality...Do you think 16 years should get the vote? Are you a 16 year old who thinks they are being denied their human right by not being allowed to vote...call us now in..

Think of those poor 14 year olds who are being denied their human rights...

Richard_Nabavi

FF43 said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

I flew the votes at 16 idea past PB some some months ago and was astonished by the general hostility to the idea. It's in situ and completely uncontroversial in Scotland with even the Conservatives on board.

But Scotland - almost alone in the world - has always recognised 16 as the age of majority. Almost all other countries have it at 18 (or occasionally more). If they are too young to execute legally-binding contracts, they are too young to vote, it seems to me.

GIN1138

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

They can't drink and smoke?

RobD

GIN1138 said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/TheGreenParty/status/926391000393703424

They can't drink and smoke?

Can’t watch the other kind of AV...

TOPPING

AlastairMeeks said:

The Conservatives need to ask themselves what they stand for. Right now I can honestly say that I have no idea what they stand for other than hating the EU.

The things they are supposed to stand for (small state, individual responsibility) are very much out of favour right now and have been since 2008.

Richard_Nabavi

RobD said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

YellowSubmarine said:

@Tissue_Price Some demographics have vastly more children that others. Some people can't have children or have lost their children. Your suggestion means some folk will have 10 votes and others 1. You might as well advocate bring back the Property and University franchises. Or weighting voting power by Gross tax contribution. Or age.

Four excellent suggestions!

Missing gender, but you can’t win them all I suppose...

It is true that Britain's decline in the world dates from the enfranchisement of women.

[...ducks for cover...]

FrancisUrquhart

Rogers mate is in more trouble...

Kevin Spacey: UK police 'investigate sexual assault claim'

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41857327

williamglenn

rkrkrk said:

Cocky of Cameron not to use it in the EU referendum. Obviously thought he would win anyway.

Tactically, a big row about the franchise (particularly relating to EU citizens) would have brought to the fore some important issues much earlier and given the campaigns a different complexion, even if ultimately they'd stuck to the current GE format.