For me the most surprising point in these tables is that Labour doesn't draw more of its members from London - the same percentage (12%) as the Conservatives.
More generally, what the survey shows is that party members don't reflect the views of those who vote
Yes, while support hovers around 50% for the death penalty for murder that rises to 69% supporting the death penalty for serial killers
The only knockdown argument against the death penalty that I can see is the han prisons.
Personally I would only consider it for serial killers which also reduces the error rate and focuses on the most calculating killers and then only lethal injection
The drugs industry works hard to prevent its products being used in lethal injections
Most US states still execute by lethal injection though firing squad would be equally acceptable as in Utah where it is an option for death row prisoners
They struggle to get product, resulting in dodgy combinations are regular fuckups
They increasingly get them from abroad, showing the US drugs industry approach is counterproductive
Do you actual know fuck all about what you post on?
The constraints started with the European companies and spread to the US and India. They still get grey market Chinese sedatives - which is what causes the issues (and arguably breaks the law as they are being purchased without prescription for an non approved purpose)
So as I said the reluctance of US drugs companies to get involved just creates more problematic issues
That isn't what you said though is it. You said that US companies started the boycott causing the drugs to be imported. In fact it was the bona fide exporters who started the boycott which pressured the US suppliers to follow suit.
No I did not say the US companies started the boycott I said their approach was counterproductive ie the 31 states which use lethal injection get them from abroad e.g. China where they are more likely to be dodgy.
Though the end result is still to kill the prisoner as the penalty set regardless
These maps put the odd poll finding 1% of Kippers wanting to Remain in context:
Some people have an appalling grasp of geography.
Years ago, when I worked in Leeds, and Sat Navs were all the rage, one of my colleagues had to go to South Shields, she asked me for directions, I said jump on the A1 and about 2 hrs later you'll get there.
The next day I get a phone call from her saying
Her - 'I've driven 2 hrs on the A1 and I can't find any signs for South Shields'
Me - 'What's the last junction you saw?'
Her - 'Stevenage'
Me - 'What the eff?, you're near London, you need to be near Newcastle'
Her - 'I thought South Shields meant it was down South'
The thing in The Sun today about postage stamps was a bit creepy. It's like living under occupation where the occupiers insist on ramming symbols of their Supreme Victory down the population's throats. What next: a monument to Brexit on every street corner? Thankfully the Royal Mail refused to get involved in divisive politics and told them where to stick it.
I assume the Sun will not want commemorative stamps of Corbyn if he ever becomes PM?
The Sun will want commemorative stamps on Rupert's passing, while over at the Mail, the celebration of Dacre's retirement....
What papers want to commeorate depends entirely on their ideological bent
Have you read the tweet correctly? It implies around 80% don't want to be northerners.
The regions are so big that the results are pretty meaningless IMO. The East Midlands stretches from the coalfield of north Derbyshire right down to Northampton. That Chesterfield and Bolsover most likely identify as northern is hardly a surprise, whilst Northants is borderline home counties.
My rule of thumb has always been that Doncaster is in the North, Nottingham is in the Midlands.
Nottingham is midlands but the coalfield in the north of the county (Mansfield etc) is definitely north in a cultural sense. Richard is right I think that the boundary is approximately the Trent, though most of the city of Nottingham is north of it.
Yet walk the Viking Way from Rutland to the Humber, and you do not see much difference in landscape or peoples - in many parts you could be in Surrey or Suffolk. Cross that two kilometres of water and it feels very different. To me, the Humber feels much more of a delineation than the Trent.
Since the Trent runs up into the Humber then that is the natural extension of the boundary. Historically Lincolnshire was considered the South.
Indeed. However that part of the Trent runs essentially south to north, making it more of a west-east boundary than a north-south one. And on the other side of the country, what about Cheshire? Southern or northern?
Definitely Northern. Follow the Trent rule and you can't go much wrong.
Have you read the tweet correctly? It implies around 80% don't want to be northerners.
The regions are so big that the results are pretty meaningless IMO. The East Midlands stretches from the coalfield of north Derbyshire right down to Northampton. That Chesterfield and Bolsover most likely identify as northern is hardly a surprise, whilst Northants is borderline home counties.
My rule of thumb has always been that Doncaster is in the North, Nottingham is in the Midlands.
Nottingham is midlands but the coalfield in the north of the county (Mansfield etc) is definitely north in a cultural sense. Richard is right I think that the boundary is approximately the Trent, though most of the city of Nottingham is north of it.
Yet walk the Viking Way from Rutland to the Humber, and you do not see much difference in landscape or peoples - in many parts you could be in Surrey or Suffolk. Cross that two kilometres of water and it feels very different. To me, the Humber feels much more of a delineation than the Trent.
That's perhaps true of north east Notts around Newark, and rural Lincolnshire. But I struggle to see how eg Doncaster and Scunthorpe resemble Surrey.
Ever been to Croydon?
Yes, I lived there about 20 years ago. Aside from being generally not a very nice place, it doesn't have much in common with Doncaster or Scunthorpe though.
Have you read the tweet correctly? It implies around 80% don't want to be northerners.
The regions are so big that the results are pretty meaningless IMO. The East Midlands stretches from the coalfield of north Derbyshire right down to Northampton. That Chesterfield and Bolsover most likely identify as northern is hardly a surprise, whilst Northants is borderline home counties.
My rule of thumb has always been that Doncaster is in the North, Nottingham is in the Midlands.
Nottingham is midlands but the coalfield in the north of the county (Mansfield etc) is definitely north in a cultural sense. Richard is right I think that the boundary is approximately the Trent, though most of the city of Nottingham is north of it.
Yet walk the Viking Way from Rutland to the Humber, and you do not see much difference in landscape or peoples - in many parts you could be in Surrey or Suffolk. Cross that two kilometres of water and it feels very different. To me, the Humber feels much more of a delineation than the Trent.
Since the Trent runs up into the Humber then that is the natural extension of the boundary. Historically Lincolnshire was considered the South.
Indeed. However that part of the Trent runs essentially south to north, making it more of a west-east boundary than a north-south one. And on the other side of the country, what about Cheshire? Southern or northern?
Have you read the tweet correctly? It implies around 80% don't want to be northerners.
The regions are so big that the results are pretty meaningless IMO. The East Midlands stretches from the coalfield of north Derbyshire right down to Northampton. That Chesterfield and Bolsover most likely identify as northern is hardly a surprise, whilst Northants is borderline home counties.
My rule of thumb has always been that Doncaster is in the North, Nottingham is in the Midlands.
Nottingham is midlands but the coalfield in the north of the county (Mansfield etc) is definitely north in a cultural sense. Richard is right I think that the boundary is approximately the Trent, though most of the city of Nottingham is north of it.
Yet walk the Viking Way from Rutland to the Humber, and you do not see much difference in landscape or peoples - in many parts you could be in Surrey or Suffolk. Cross that two kilometres of water and it feels very different. To me, the Humber feels much more of a delineation than the Trent.
Since the Trent runs up into the Humber then that is the natural extension of the boundary. Historically Lincolnshire was considered the South.
Indeed. However that part of the Trent runs essentially south to north, making it more of a west-east boundary than a north-south one. And on the other side of the country, what about Cheshire? Southern or northern?
When you turn out of the A92 onto the M90 you are given then option of going NORTH - or SOUTH to Edinburgh and beyond. Is this the most northerly NORTH sign?
Incidentally if you have spent all day driving from London to Edinburgh, you are still only half way to the north coast. Leeds is a quarter of the way.
When you turn out of the A92 onto the M90 you are given then option of going NORTH - or SOUTH to Edinburgh and beyond. Is this the most northerly NORTH sign?
Incidentally if you have spent all day driving from London to Edinburgh, you are still only half way to the north coast. Leeds is a quarter of the way.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
Have you read the tweet correctly? It implies around 80% don't want to be northerners.
The regions are so big that the results are pretty meaningless IMO. The East Midlands stretches from the coalfield of north Derbyshire right down to Northampton. That Chesterfield and Bolsover most likely identify as northern is hardly a surprise, whilst Northants is borderline home counties.
My rule of thumb has always been that Doncaster is in the North, Nottingham is in the Midlands.
Nottingham is midlands but the coalfield in the north of the county (Mansfield etc) is definitely north in a cultural sense. Richard is right I think that the boundary is approximately the Trent, though most of the city of Nottingham is north of it.
Yet walk the Viking Way from Rutland to the Humber, and you do not see much difference in landscape or peoples - in many parts you could be in Surrey or Suffolk. Cross that two kilometres of water and it feels very different. To me, the Humber feels much more of a delineation than the Trent.
Since the Trent runs up into the Humber then that is the natural extension of the boundary. Historically Lincolnshire was considered the South.
Indeed. However that part of the Trent runs essentially south to north, making it more of a west-east boundary than a north-south one. And on the other side of the country, what about Cheshire? Southern or northern?
I've lived in Cheshire, definitely the North.
Derbyshire is the curious one though.
I'm with River drainage as the main arbiter, as already alluded..
Drained into the Ouse/Humber (e.g. Chesterfield) = North, drained into the Mersey (e.g. much of High Peak) = North, drained into the Derwent/Trent (e.g. most of Buxton and southwards) = Midlands
Have you read the tweet correctly? It implies around 80% don't want to be northerners.
The regions are so big that the results are pretty meaningless IMO. The East Midlands stretches from the coalfield of north Derbyshire right down to Northampton. That Chesterfield and Bolsover most likely identify as northern is hardly a surprise, whilst Northants is borderline home counties.
My rule of thumb has always been that Doncaster is in the North, Nottingham is in the Midlands.
Nottingham is midlands but the coalfield in the north of the county (Mansfield etc) is definitely north in a cultural sense. Richard is right I think that the boundary is approximately the Trent, though most of the city of Nottingham is north of it.
Yet walk the Viking Way from Rutland to the Humber, and you do not see much difference in landscape or peoples - in many parts you could be in Surrey or Suffolk. Cross that two kilometres of water and it feels very different. To me, the Humber feels much more of a delineation than the Trent.
Since the Trent runs up into the Humber then that is the natural extension of the boundary. Historically Lincolnshire was considered the South.
Indeed. However that part of the Trent runs essentially south to north, making it more of a west-east boundary than a north-south one. And on the other side of the country, what about Cheshire? Southern or northern?
I've lived in Cheshire, definitely the North.
Derbyshire is the curious one though.
South Derbyshire, where I was born and raised, feels a very different country from (say) Matlock, just twenty miles away, yet alone the far north of the county such as Glossop.
Have you read the tweet correctly? It implies around 80% don't want to be northerners.
The regions are so big that the results are pretty meaningless IMO. The East Midlands stretches from the coalfield of north Derbyshire right down to Northampton. That Chesterfield and Bolsover most likely identify as northern is hardly a surprise, whilst Northants is borderline home counties.
My rule of thumb has always been that Doncaster is in the North, Nottingham is in the Midlands.
Nottingham is midlands but the coalfield in the north of the county (Mansfield etc) is definitely north in a cultural sense. Richard is right I think that the boundary is approximately the Trent, though most of the city of Nottingham is north of it.
Yet walk the Viking Way from Rutland to the Humber, and you do not see much difference in landscape or peoples - in many parts you could be in Surrey or Suffolk. Cross that two kilometres of water and it feels very different. To me, the Humber feels much more of a delineation than the Trent.
Since the Trent runs up into the Humber then that is the natural extension of the boundary. Historically Lincolnshire was considered the South.
Indeed. However that part of the Trent runs essentially south to north, making it more of a west-east boundary than a north-south one. And on the other side of the country, what about Cheshire? Southern or northern?
Definitely Northern. Follow the Trent rule and you can't go much wrong.
The Trent rises in Staffordshire, not Cheshire.
Rory Stewart did an interesting couple of programs on the borderlands of England and Scotland a few years ago, detailing how arbitrary and nebulous the concept of the border was, and is. It might be interesting for someone to do one on 'the north' border; the history, realities and consequent attitudes.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
I am sure @MalcolmG would agree that you are nearly all southern jessies. The degree of southerness and jessieness may vary (the inhabitants of Newcastle are almost honorary Scots) but the principle is sound.
Marcher? Just traced the Wye - it gets almost to Machynlleth, blinking heck.
The Llan no more guarantees Welshness than it does for Llandain I guess.
I did a holiday on the Carmarthenshire/Pembrokeshire border this year (Ffynonlwyd). When we hit the west of Herefordshire I thought we were in Wales due to several of the road/village names before we actually were.
Marcher? Just traced the Wye - it gets almost to Machynlleth, blinking heck.
The Llan no more guarantees Welshness than it does for Llandain I guess.
I did a holiday on the Carmarthenshire/Pembrokeshire border this year (Ffynonlwyd). When we hit the west of Herefordshire I thought we were in Wales due to several of the road/village names before we actually were.
Not too bothered about the party member data - first, it's not that surprising and second, it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know.
The Conservative Party has become largely (but not exclusively) the party of LEAVE and of social conservatives. Labour has become largely (but not exclusively) the party of REMAIN and more liberal attitudes. Indeed, one might surmise that the combination of Lab, LD and SNP out numbers the Conservatives but in this instance (as with so many others) one head is better than three.
Politically, a small but disparate progressive majority is frequently out-voted by a united traditional minority. There are lessons in that.
The other point is when Party A is in power for a long period, Party B enjoys an upsurge of activists as Party A begins to lose support through longevity and other factors. I was part of that generation that lived through the Thatcher years and there remains a residual anti-Conservative bloc in the 50-60 year olds.
Conversely, those who lived through the Blair-Brown years were drawn to the Conservatives so we have a cohort of Conservatives in their 40s and early 50s who are Blair's offspring just as I am one of Thatcher's children (so to speak).
Labour is drawing unto itself some (but not all) of those opposed to the Government which will have had twelve years of office by 2022 - that translates to a group of 20 and 30-somethings who were more disposed to Labour than the Conservatives.
Marcher? Just traced the Wye - it gets almost to Machynlleth, blinking heck.
The Llan no more guarantees Welshness than it does for Llandain I guess.
I did a holiday on the Carmarthenshire/Pembrokeshire border this year (Ffynonlwyd). When we hit the west of Herefordshire I thought we were in Wales due to several of the road/village names before we actually were.
And much of Pembrokeshire feels English.
Little England beyond Wales, as it used to be known.
Marcher? Just traced the Wye - it gets almost to Machynlleth, blinking heck.
The Llan no more guarantees Welshness than it does for Llandain I guess.
I did a holiday on the Carmarthenshire/Pembrokeshire border this year (Ffynonlwyd). When we hit the west of Herefordshire I thought we were in Wales due to several of the road/village names before we actually were.
And much of Pembrokeshire feels English.
Little England beyond Wales. Settled by Flemings during the Norman conquest of SW Wales.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
Similarly, now, in Essex. North Essex...... north of about the A414 ......is East Anglian; South of that is London Overspill, the Essex of TOWIE. TOWIE as a concept is barely recognisable in N Essex, except maybe Chelmsford.
Marcher? Just traced the Wye - it gets almost to Machynlleth, blinking heck.
The Llan no more guarantees Welshness than it does for Llandain I guess.
I did a holiday on the Carmarthenshire/Pembrokeshire border this year (Ffynonlwyd). When we hit the west of Herefordshire I thought we were in Wales due to several of the road/village names before we actually were.
Bagwyllydiart, Llandinabo, and Pontrilas being fine Herefordshire examples. I believe there are records as late as the 1860's of notices about services in churches in SW Herefordshire being put up in Welsh, implying heavily there were a lot of speakers even then.
Marcher? Just traced the Wye - it gets almost to Machynlleth, blinking heck.
The Llan no more guarantees Welshness than it does for Llandain I guess.
The Severn and the Wye both rise within a few miles of each other, and take very different courses to the sea. Ii I ever get the change, I want to walk up the Wye to its source, cut across to the Severn's head, and then down the Severn on what would be a 350-400 mile circular walk.
Marcher? Just traced the Wye - it gets almost to Machynlleth, blinking heck.
The Llan no more guarantees Welshness than it does for Llandain I guess.
The Severn and the Wye both rise within a few miles of each other, and take very different courses to the sea. Ii I ever get the change, I want to walk up the Wye to its source, cut across to the Severn's head, and then down the Severn on what would be a 350-400 mile circular walk.
When I was about 17 a friend and I cycled across from Southend and cycled and walked to the source of the Wye. We then followed the river, mostly on our bikes, as closely as we could to Chepstow, and then cycled home. Took us most of the (two week) Easter Holidays!
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
Similarly, now, in Essex. North Essex...... north of about the A414 ......is East Anglian; South of that is London Overspill, the Essex of TOWIE. TOWIE as a concept is barely recognisable in N Essex, except maybe Chelmsford.
One of my ex's mothers (They lived in Orsett) almost seemed to throw up when she mentioned Tilbury.
For me the most surprising point in these tables is that Labour doesn't draw more of its members from London - the same percentage (12%) as the Conservatives.
More generally, what the survey shows is that party members don't reflect the views of those who vote
Worth remembering that it is 12% of 600,000 for Labour and 12% of maybe 130,000 for the Tories.
I would be surprised if most Tory voters do not back the return of the death penalty given that a majority in the country does. Likewise, all the polling indicates that most Labour voters also voted Remain.
It s NOT the case the the majority of voters back capital punishment. No down to below 50%
Yes, while support hovers around 50% for the death penalty for murder that rises to 69% supporting the death penalty for serial killers
Personally I would only consider it for serial killers which also reduces the error rate and focuses on the most calculating killers and then only lethal injection
The drugs industry works hard to prevent its products being used in lethal injections
Most US states still execute by lethal injection though firing squad would be equally acceptable as in Utah where it is an option for death row prisoners
They struggle to get product, resulting in dodgy combinations are regular fuckups
They increasingly get them from abroad, showing the US drugs industry approach is counterproductive
Do you actual know fuck all about what you post on?
The constraints started with the European companies and spread to the US and India. They still get grey market Chinese sedatives - which is what causes the issues (and arguably breaks the law as they are being purchased without prescription for an non approved purpose)
So as I said the reluctance of US drugs companies to get involved just creates more problematic issues
There is no point in further discussion with you. For some reason you feel the need to try to be right on everything. The world is not black and white, but maybe you will realise this as you get older.
I am OK with that in principle. In practice there are very few new opportunities consistent with the damage limitation that I talked about, and which by definition leaves us worse off. I am open to suggestions, do read widely on the subject and haven't seen anything workable yet. If there are any, you would be the one to suggest them. That's a sincere compliment, by the way.
Thank you for your kind words.
Initially, Brexit will involve a large degree of alignment with the EU, but it must also contain the right to diverge in future. That is both the sensible and the rational thing to do.
The benefits revolve around the removal of regulatory and trade constraints in the medium-long term, and the political one of detaching from an organisation that wishes to become a federal union, whilst simultaneously enhancing national democratic accountability.
The UK spent years trying to get the EU to complete the single market in services but had little success because it so obviously benefited the UK. At the same time, we basically bought influence with our budget contributions, whilst effectively acting as consumer and employer of first resort for the whole continent. It wasn't working and I don't think it was sustainable.
I think the UK's strategy, given services make up over 80% of our economy, should involve elevating key regional cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow, Belfast and Newcastle in the Global Cities league table, as well as London (which is another reason why HS2 is so important) and striking liberalising servicing deals with Brazil, China, India, the US and key Asian economies, as well as the EU.
I find Tim Shipman's book "All Out War" interesting for how the civil service and DfIT wanted to prioritise financial passporting for any trade deal with the US, which would be very valuable to the UK. So, recognition of professional qualifications, easier (temporary) fast movement of key professionals between these cities and passporting rights will be important. I'd also expect a degree of liberalisation on the regulation of airports and ports.
In terms of future technology and manufacturing, the UK will want to make itself even more attractive for creative industries, artificial/machine intelligence, driverless cars, space industry, and digital start-ups.
Basically, the UK would become a global services and entrepreneur hub, but augmented with very high-end manufacturing and agriculture, with seasonal worker and skilled work permits, greater investment by Government/Industry in adult education and training, science and R&D and a more equitable distribution of infrastructure and regional investment.
I think something quite powerful and exciting could be built around that which both Leavers and Remainers could buy into.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
Similarly, now, in Essex. North Essex...... north of about the A414 ......is East Anglian; South of that is London Overspill, the Essex of TOWIE. TOWIE as a concept is barely recognisable in N Essex, except maybe Chelmsford.
One of my ex's mothers (They lived in Orsett) almost seemed to throw up when she mentioned Tilbury.
But which Tilbury? Because I know people from West Tilbury who don't talk to people from East Tilbury. And Tilbury itself, minus the compass point, is never to be spoken of at all.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
Similarly, now, in Essex. North Essex...... north of about the A414 ......is East Anglian; South of that is London Overspill, the Essex of TOWIE. TOWIE as a concept is barely recognisable in N Essex, except maybe Chelmsford.
One of my ex's mothers (They lived in Orsett) almost seemed to throw up when she mentioned Tilbury.
How many mothers did your ex have? Seriously, not at all surprised at that. Orsett was one of the last South Essex strongholds of East Anglian, as opposed to London, Essex. Worked there for a while, and the difference was very noticeable. Mind, my grandparents, who had moved from Wales to North Grays regarded Tilbury as a wild land, inhabited by strange people.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
If you go back to the turn of the last century, there were apparently very pronounced dialect differences across the River Avon where it formed the border between Hampshire and Dorset. Some historians put this down to Dorset remaining in British hands long after the rest of Southern England had been conquered by the Saxons.
The Severn and the Wye both rise within a few miles of each other, and take very different courses to the sea. Ii I ever get the change, I want to walk up the Wye to its source, cut across to the Severn's head, and then down the Severn on what would be a 350-400 mile circular walk.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
If you go back to the turn of the last century, there were apparently very pronounced dialect differences across the River Avon where it formed the border between Hampshire and Dorset. Some historians put this down to Dorset remaining in British hands long after the rest of Southern England had been conquered by the Saxons.
I read somewhere.... not at all sure of the reference ..... that Welsh was spoken in parts of Dorset until a couple of generations before the Conquest.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
If you go back to the turn of the last century, there were apparently very pronounced dialect differences across the River Avon where it formed the border between Hampshire and Dorset. Some historians put this down to Dorset remaining in British hands long after the rest of Southern England had been conquered by the Saxons.
I read somewhere.... not at all sure of the reference ..... that Welsh was spoken in parts of Dorset until a couple of generations before the Conquest.
That would certainly tie in with what I have read.
Theo Bartram is a virtue-signalling berk, and most people on the graph need to do some homework.
Let us assume we are of the silly mindset that believes in "quotas" rather than the ability of MPs to represent people who are not like them. Though "quotas" presumably means that a gay MP cannot represent their straight constituents.
Local - fair enough. Expected everywhere.
Women - fair enough mathematically. But there is no obvious way in which women are not represented.
Disabilities. In the population about 16-20% using a broad definition. Bad back = disabled etc. WRT the Commons we have recently had idiots (who were allowd to make the Daily Politics) pretending that only 1% ie 6 MPs are disabled (not including eg Theresa May). I am not aware of any accurate numbers, but it is scores and scores; I counted 50+ without breaking sweat.
Ethnic minorities. The last time I checked the likelihood of an ethnic person being an MP was about the same as anybody else for the group who become MPs. The skew is in age demographics.
Working Class. The term is meaningless now - what does it mean. Labour in Parl. is stuffed with ABC1 millionaires calling themselves "working class".
Young. Again, depends what it means. Plenty of infantiles in theur 40s 50s 60s 70s - do they count?
LGBT. Self-identified LGBT in population = just over 2%. In Parliament = 7%. They are overrepresented 3+x so quota-mongers should be trying to ban some.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
If you go back to the turn of the last century, there were apparently very pronounced dialect differences across the River Avon where it formed the border between Hampshire and Dorset. Some historians put this down to Dorset remaining in British hands long after the rest of Southern England had been conquered by the Saxons.
I read somewhere.... not at all sure of the reference ..... that Welsh was spoken in parts of Dorset until a couple of generations before the Conquest.
That would certainly tie in with what I have read.
Does any trace survive in local dialects, do you know? Never heard of it myself. Can’t even think of a place name!
Theo Bartram is a virtue-signalling berk, and most people on the graph need to do some homework.
Let us assume we are of the silly mindset that believes in "quotas" rather than the ability of MPs to represent people who are not like them. Though "quotas" presumably means that a gay MP cannot represent their straight constituents.
Local - fair enough. Expected everywhere.
Women - fair enough mathematically. But there is no obvious way in which women are not represented.
Disabilities. In the population about 16-20% using a broad definition. Bad back = disabled etc. WRT the Commons we have recently had idiots (who were allowd to make the Daily Politics) pretending that only 1% ie 6 MPs are disabled (not including eg Theresa May). I am not aware of any accurate numbers, but it is scores and scores; I counted 50+ without breaking sweat.
Ethnic minorities. The last time I checked the likelihood of an ethnic person being an MP was about the same as anybody else for the group who become MPs. The skew is in age demographics.
Working Class. The term is meaningless now - what does it mean. Labour in Parl. is stuffed with ABC1 millionaires calling themselves "working class".
Young. Again, depends what it means. Plenty of infantiles in theur 40s 50s 60s 70s - do they count?
LGBT. Self-identified LGBT in population = just over 2%. In Parliament = 7%. They are overrepresented 3+x so quota-mongers should be trying to ban some.
Mr. P, had to google that, but it is indeed the same thing.
I read a few months ago that the term had become standardised to something else, which surprised me. But then, I think Things On The Internet can often be exaggerated. Saw a map of Europe if every secessionist movement succeeded, and it showed Yorkshire as its own country. There's only a tiny number of people who want Yorkshire to be independent.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
If you go back to the turn of the last century, there were apparently very pronounced dialect differences across the River Avon where it formed the border between Hampshire and Dorset. Some historians put this down to Dorset remaining in British hands long after the rest of Southern England had been conquered by the Saxons.
I read somewhere.... not at all sure of the reference ..... that Welsh was spoken in parts of Dorset until a couple of generations before the Conquest.
There is some indirect evidence apparently about Cornish being spoken in the South Hams area of Devon in the early middle ages, not read about Welsh (Cornish?) in Dorset as late as about 1000 AD, though it was probably spoken in Cumbria till then (as in indeed the name Cumbria attests being not uncoincidentally similar to Cymru)
Theo Bartram is a virtue-signalling berk, and most people on the graph need to do some homework.
Let us assume we are of the silly mindset that believes in "quotas" rather than the ability of MPs to represent people who are not like them. Though "quotas" presumably means that a gay MP cannot represent their straight constituents.
Local - fair enough. Expected everywhere.
Women - fair enough mathematically. But there is no obvious way in which women are not represented.
Disabilities. In the population about 16-20% using a broad definition. Bad back = disabled etc. WRT the Commons we have recently had idiots (who were allowd to make the Daily Politics) pretending that only 1% ie 6 MPs are disabled (not including eg Theresa May). I am not aware of any accurate numbers, but it is scores and scores; I counted 50+ without breaking sweat.
Ethnic minorities. The last time I checked the likelihood of an ethnic person being an MP was about the same as anybody else for the group who become MPs. The skew is in age demographics.
Working Class. The term is meaningless now - what does it mean. Labour in Parl. is stuffed with ABC1 millionaires calling themselves "working class".
Young. Again, depends what it means. Plenty of infantiles in theur 40s 50s 60s 70s - do they count?
LGBT. Self-identified LGBT in population = just over 2%. In Parliament = 7%. They are overrepresented 3+x so quota-mongers should be trying to ban some.
Give me strength.
Proportional Representation?
The problem is that Reductio Ad Absurdam comes in with the first quota you create.
What about beards? People with a shorter arm or a peg-leg? Gingers? Blondes? Those with lots of zits? Fast runners? People with pet hamsters? Dog-haters? etc.
In a representative democracy the concept of a sensible quota formal does not really exist.
Mr. P, had to google that, but it is indeed the same thing.
I read a few months ago that the term had become standardised to something else, which surprised me. But then, I think Things On The Internet can often be exaggerated. Saw a map of Europe if every secessionist movement succeeded, and it showed Yorkshire as its own country. There's only a tiny number of people who want Yorkshire to be independent.
The key question is not where the Midlands becomes the North. As @Richard_Tyndall says, that’s been fixed for centuries. (Another clue is the division of Canterbury and York provinces in the C of E).
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
South West would be West of Bournemouth/Poole then upwards to Chippenham, cutting across just North Of Bristol.
(In my opinion).
Although you could argue a South Central regional identity, especially in the south of that area along the "greater" Solent - from Bournemouth / Poole (Weymouth at stretch) to Portsmouth (maybe as far as Chichester) say.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
If you go back to the turn of the last century, there were apparently very pronounced dialect differences across the River Avon where it formed the border between Hampshire and Dorset. Some historians put this down to Dorset remaining in British hands long after the rest of Southern England had been conquered by the Saxons.
I read somewhere.... not at all sure of the reference ..... that Welsh was spoken in parts of Dorset until a couple of generations before the Conquest.
That would certainly tie in with what I have read.
Does any trace survive in local dialects, do you know? Never heard of it myself. Can’t even think of a place name!
I am not sure. It is sad how quickly so many dialects have disappeared. If you go to the British Library site they have a remarkable set of recordings of dialects from the last century or so.
Mr. City, hmm. I thought the population and economy of Yorkshire was very similar (in broad numbers) to Scotland.
I did hear about the mayoral tosh on the local news a few weeks ago. If Yorkshire wants one mayor, it should have one mayor. This 'temporary' bullshit line is unacceptable.
Mr. City, hmm. I thought the population and economy of Yorkshire was very similar (in broad numbers) to Scotland.
I did hear about the mayoral tosh on the local news a few weeks ago. If Yorkshire wants one mayor, it should have one mayor. This 'temporary' bullshit line is unacceptable.
I'm planning to get the Tory nomination for Governor Mayor of Yorkshire.
I'll be head of the Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority, or YMCA for short.
[...] Initially, Brexit will involve a large degree of alignment with the EU, but it must also contain the right to diverge in future. That is both the sensible and the rational thing to do.
The benefits revolve around the removal of regulatory and trade constraints in the medium-long term, [...]
I think the UK's strategy, given services make up over 80% of our economy, should involve elevating key regional cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow, Belfast and Newcastle in the Global Cities league table, as well as London (which is another reason why HS2 is so important) and striking liberalising servicing deals with Brazil, China, India, the US and key Asian economies, as well as the EU.
I find Tim Shipman's book "All Out War" interesting for how the civil service and DfIT wanted to prioritise financial passporting for any trade deal with the US, which would be very valuable to the UK. So, recognition of professional qualifications, easier (temporary) fast movement of key professionals between these cities and passporting rights will be important. I'd also expect a degree of liberalisation on the regulation of airports and ports.
In terms of future technology and manufacturing, the UK will want to make itself even more attractive for creative industries, artificial/machine intelligence, driverless cars, space industry, and digital start-ups.
Basically, the UK would become a global services and entrepreneur hub, but augmented with very high-end manufacturing and agriculture, with seasonal worker and skilled work permits, greater investment by Government/Industry in adult education and training, science and R&D and a more equitable distribution of infrastructure and regional investment.
I think something quite powerful and exciting could be built around that which both Leavers and Remainers could buy into.
Thanks. Very brief responses to your much more detailed ones:
What you refer to as regulatory and trade constraints are trade enablers. Standardisation allows us to deliver goods and services over a much wider market. Whether the standardisation is voluntary or enforced it comes to the same thing.
There is no reason to believe we will find it easier exporting services to third countries after leaving the EU than before. There is reason to believe it will be a bit harder. The EU is very focused on this and has the economic heft to force their partners to negotiate.
Investing in skills and R&D is a good thing and something we should do anyway. The UK will (and already is) a less attractive investment and skills destination than when it was part of the bigger market.
So lots of good stuff, none of which is helped by Brexit, but fair enough, we need to do it. In the meantime we do need to limit the direct damage.
Comments
Though the end result is still to kill the prisoner as the penalty set regardless
Years ago, when I worked in Leeds, and Sat Navs were all the rage, one of my colleagues had to go to South Shields, she asked me for directions, I said jump on the A1 and about 2 hrs later you'll get there.
The next day I get a phone call from her saying
Her - 'I've driven 2 hrs on the A1 and I can't find any signs for South Shields'
Me - 'What's the last junction you saw?'
Her - 'Stevenage'
Me - 'What the eff?, you're near London, you need to be near Newcastle'
Her - 'I thought South Shields meant it was down South'
https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/948881331596951552
Derbyshire is the curious one though.
Incidentally if you have spent all day driving from London to Edinburgh, you are still only half way to the north coast. Leeds is a quarter of the way.
Timewise you're right !
The tricky one is where the South or a South West stops and the Midlands start.
A Mercian would claim Gloucs, Oxon, Bucks, Beds and Cambs for the Midlands...
https://twitter.com/Crashnburn2uk/status/948632675031666688
Drained into the Ouse/Humber (e.g. Chesterfield) = North, drained into the Mersey (e.g. much of High Peak) = North, drained into the Derwent/Trent (e.g. most of Buxton and southwards) = Midlands
Rory Stewart did an interesting couple of programs on the borderlands of England and Scotland a few years ago, detailing how arbitrary and nebulous the concept of the border was, and is. It might be interesting for someone to do one on 'the north' border; the history, realities and consequent attitudes.
(In my opinion).
The Llan no more guarantees Welshness than it does for Llandain I guess.
Not too bothered about the party member data - first, it's not that surprising and second, it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know.
The Conservative Party has become largely (but not exclusively) the party of LEAVE and of social conservatives. Labour has become largely (but not exclusively) the party of REMAIN and more liberal attitudes. Indeed, one might surmise that the combination of Lab, LD and SNP out numbers the Conservatives but in this instance (as with so many others) one head is better than three.
Politically, a small but disparate progressive majority is frequently out-voted by a united traditional minority. There are lessons in that.
The other point is when Party A is in power for a long period, Party B enjoys an upsurge of activists as Party A begins to lose support through longevity and other factors. I was part of that generation that lived through the Thatcher years and there remains a residual anti-Conservative bloc in the 50-60 year olds.
Conversely, those who lived through the Blair-Brown years were drawn to the Conservatives so we have a cohort of Conservatives in their 40s and early 50s who are Blair's offspring just as I am one of Thatcher's children (so to speak).
Labour is drawing unto itself some (but not all) of those opposed to the Government which will have had twelve years of office by 2022 - that translates to a group of 20 and 30-somethings who were more disposed to Labour than the Conservatives.
The county boundaries (whether historic or modern) don't map very well here to cultural identity. I certainly agree that Bournemouth/Poole is Southern or South Eastern whereas west Dorset is South Western. Similarly Salisbury is Southern, Swindon is South Midlands but west Wiltshire is South Western.
Took us most of the (two week) Easter Holidays!
Initially, Brexit will involve a large degree of alignment with the EU, but it must also contain the right to diverge in future. That is both the sensible and the rational thing to do.
The benefits revolve around the removal of regulatory and trade constraints in the medium-long term, and the political one of detaching from an organisation that wishes to become a federal union, whilst simultaneously enhancing national democratic accountability.
The UK spent years trying to get the EU to complete the single market in services but had little success because it so obviously benefited the UK. At the same time, we basically bought influence with our budget contributions, whilst effectively acting as consumer and employer of first resort for the whole continent. It wasn't working and I don't think it was sustainable.
I think the UK's strategy, given services make up over 80% of our economy, should involve elevating key regional cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow, Belfast and Newcastle in the Global Cities league table, as well as London (which is another reason why HS2 is so important) and striking liberalising servicing deals with Brazil, China, India, the US and key Asian economies, as well as the EU.
I find Tim Shipman's book "All Out War" interesting for how the civil service and DfIT wanted to prioritise financial passporting for any trade deal with the US, which would be very valuable to the UK. So, recognition of professional qualifications, easier (temporary) fast movement of key professionals between these cities and passporting rights will be important. I'd also expect a degree of liberalisation on the regulation of airports and ports.
In terms of future technology and manufacturing, the UK will want to make itself even more attractive for creative industries, artificial/machine intelligence, driverless cars, space industry, and digital start-ups.
Basically, the UK would become a global services and entrepreneur hub, but augmented with very high-end manufacturing and agriculture, with seasonal worker and skilled work permits, greater investment by Government/Industry in adult education and training, science and R&D and a more equitable distribution of infrastructure and regional investment.
I think something quite powerful and exciting could be built around that which both Leavers and Remainers could buy into.
The Severn-Wash line is one that sticks in my mind.
Let us assume we are of the silly mindset that believes in "quotas" rather than the ability of MPs to represent people who are not like them. Though "quotas" presumably means that a gay MP cannot represent their straight constituents.
Local - fair enough. Expected everywhere.
Women - fair enough mathematically. But there is no obvious way in which women are not represented.
Disabilities. In the population about 16-20% using a broad definition. Bad back = disabled etc. WRT the Commons we have recently had idiots (who were allowd to make the Daily Politics) pretending that only 1% ie 6 MPs are disabled (not including eg Theresa May). I am not aware of any accurate numbers, but it is scores and scores; I counted 50+ without breaking sweat.
Ethnic minorities. The last time I checked the likelihood of an ethnic person being an MP was about the same as anybody else for the group who become MPs. The skew is in age demographics.
Working Class. The term is meaningless now - what does it mean. Labour in Parl. is stuffed with ABC1 millionaires calling themselves "working class".
Young. Again, depends what it means. Plenty of infantiles in theur 40s 50s 60s 70s - do they count?
LGBT. Self-identified LGBT in population = just over 2%. In Parliament = 7%. They are overrepresented 3+x so quota-mongers should be trying to ban some.
Give me strength.
On Northernness and so forth, I'm curious. A few days ago I had a spell in my finger. How many PBers would get what that means?
I’ll see your spell, and take it out with tweezers, and raise you a cruckle!
I read a few months ago that the term had become standardised to something else, which surprised me. But then, I think Things On The Internet can often be exaggerated. Saw a map of Europe if every secessionist movement succeeded, and it showed Yorkshire as its own country. There's only a tiny number of people who want Yorkshire to be independent.
Also, proportional representation is the work of Satan.
'Lawyers for US President Donald Trump are seeking to stop the release of a book containing explosive insights into his presidency, US media report.'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42570555
https://twitter.com/RobGMacfarlane/status/906952656777871362
What about beards? People with a shorter arm or a peg-leg? Gingers? Blondes? Those with lots of zits? Fast runners? People with pet hamsters? Dog-haters? etc.
In a representative democracy the concept of a sensible quota formal does not really exist.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/04/yorkshire-devolution-local-government-sajid-javid
http://sounds.bl.uk/accents-and-dialects
I did hear about the mayoral tosh on the local news a few weeks ago. If Yorkshire wants one mayor, it should have one mayor. This 'temporary' bullshit line is unacceptable.
I couldn't be more Northern even if my name was Northy Northface.
I'll be head of the Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority, or YMCA for short.
What about cruckling?
NEW THREAD
What you refer to as regulatory and trade constraints are trade enablers. Standardisation allows us to deliver goods and services over a much wider market. Whether the standardisation is voluntary or enforced it comes to the same thing.
There is no reason to believe we will find it easier exporting services to third countries after leaving the EU than before. There is reason to believe it will be a bit harder. The EU is very focused on this and has the economic heft to force their partners to negotiate.
Investing in skills and R&D is a good thing and something we should do anyway. The UK will (and already is) a less attractive investment and skills destination than when it was part of the bigger market.
So lots of good stuff, none of which is helped by Brexit, but fair enough, we need to do it. In the meantime we do need to limit the direct damage.