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  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited April 2018
    .
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,999
    edited April 2018
    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited April 2018
    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982228336062619649
    More like it for Woody. But can he make up 77 on the SNP out of the 200 Tory votes? The heart says yes, the head says "not sure".
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Going to be Rixson quite comfortably :)
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    Scott_P said:
    Surely the Lib Dems are making noises in her direction today?
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    There's nothing like a close AV count for drama. Close STV counts are good too but ultimately just a little too convoluted for true satisfaction.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,999
    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:


    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally

    Not many burglars would risk breaking into an occupied house in the middle of the night unarmed.

    Tougher sentences don't do any good except keep them off the streets for a bit longer. Most of these people have been in and out of jail all their lives.

    Therefore in principle I'm with the 61%, though the myriad of grey areas means the law has to be flexible. In principle though if you break into someone's house you deserve all you get including a frightened homeowner hitting you over the head with a hammer. If that principle were enshrined in law it might be a good deterrent though might also lead burglars to tool up with more weapons. You find you get more right wing on this when you have kids.

    It depends on the circumstance but if say an unarmed teenager broke into your house to steal a TV if the law followed this poll you would be within your legal rights to kill him
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Scott_P said:
    Thangam has been very outspoken about Jeremy Corbyn. I think some of her comments dating back to 2015 were wrong. E.g., blaming Jeremy Corbyn for not knowing she had breast cancer in a an article in the Guardian.

    I am not a Corbynista, but (after what she written and said), I am not surprised that Thangam is in a lot of trouble with her CLP.
  • Options
    prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 441
    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:


    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally

    Not many burglars would risk breaking into an occupied house in the middle of the night unarmed.

    Tougher sentences don't do any good except keep them off the streets for a bit longer. Most of these people have been in and out of jail all their lives.

    Therefore in principle I'm with the 61%, though the myriad of grey areas means the law has to be flexible. In principle though if you break into someone's house you deserve all you get including a frightened homeowner hitting you over the head with a hammer. If that principle were enshrined in law it might be a good deterrent though might also lead burglars to tool up with more weapons. You find you get more right wing on this when you have kids.

    The law is that you can use reasonable force. The law also recognises that, in the heat of the moment, you might not think about whether it is reasonable to hit the intruder over the head with a hammer and therefore might go beyond reasonable. However, the law does not protect you if you act in ways that are clearly unreasonable such as shooting burglars in the back when they are no longer in your house and are running away.

    At the moment we don't know very much about the latest case so it is impossible to tell whether the home owner's actions were reasonable. But the law is pretty much as you say it should be.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Great in-running betting heat here. Parties are (Ind, SNP, Ind, LD, Con, Ind) top-to-bottom. I reckon Colin 'Woody' Wood might sneak this from 3rd.
    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982220107853119489

    My money would be on Rixson (I think) :)
    My tissue:

    Wood 4/5
    Rixson 11/10
    MacInnes 10/1
    £5 Rixson, 50p Macinnes
    I get the feeling I need make an intervention for you and Tissue Price.

    https://www.begambleaware.org/
  • Options
    HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    edited April 2018
    HYUFD said:



    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws

    It also means that burglars are more routinely armed with guns and effectively if the burglary goes wrong it becomes a contest between whether the burglars or the homeowner are the better shot. The homeowner rarely comes out better when outnumbered by young fit experienced burglars. It is also common that burglars shoot people with their own guns. South Africa is perhaps an even better example of this phenomenon than the US.
  • Options

    There's nothing like a close AV count for drama. Close STV counts are good too but ultimately just a little too convoluted for true satisfaction.

    Was one of the reasons I was so in favour of AV, it gave us hundreds, if not thousands, of new gambling markets.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Great in-running betting heat here. Parties are (Ind, SNP, Ind, LD, Con, Ind) top-to-bottom. I reckon Colin 'Woody' Wood might sneak this from 3rd.
    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982220107853119489

    My money would be on Rixson (I think) :)
    My tissue:

    Wood 4/5
    Rixson 11/10
    MacInnes 10/1
    £5 Rixson, 50p Macinnes
    I get the feeling I need make an intervention for you and Tissue Price.

    https://www.begambleaware.org/
    Is that the line to call when you find yourself backing Abbott for next Labour leader :) ?
  • Options
    MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 48
    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Except the Castle Law element of these laws allows you to use deadly force in defence of your property when you are within your home.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304
    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Apparently, in Texas you can shoot dead an intruder without penalty if he was either armed or had a criminal record, otherwise you get a nominal fine.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Great in-running betting heat here. Parties are (Ind, SNP, Ind, LD, Con, Ind) top-to-bottom. I reckon Colin 'Woody' Wood might sneak this from 3rd.
    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982220107853119489

    My money would be on Rixson (I think) :)
    My tissue:

    Wood 4/5
    Rixson 11/10
    MacInnes 10/1
    £5 Rixson, 50p Macinnes
    I get the feeling I need make an intervention for you and Tissue Price.

    https://www.begambleaware.org/
    I didn't take the bet, they were tissue prices only. But you are right that @Pulpstar needs help.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982231667820523521

    Great round for Rixson, 84 Tory transfers to the Lib Dems.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982231667820523521

    Great round for Rixson, 84 Tory transfers to the Lib Dems.

    Ugh. All over, surely? Unless Woody is a nationalist?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Great in-running betting heat here. Parties are (Ind, SNP, Ind, LD, Con, Ind) top-to-bottom. I reckon Colin 'Woody' Wood might sneak this from 3rd.
    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982220107853119489

    My money would be on Rixson (I think) :)
    My tissue:

    Wood 4/5
    Rixson 11/10
    MacInnes 10/1
    £5 Rixson, 50p Macinnes
    I get the feeling I need make an intervention for you and Tissue Price.

    https://www.begambleaware.org/
    Is that the line to call when you find yourself backing Abbott for next Labour leader :) ?
    I'm never going to live that down am I?

    In my defence I did say at the time 'I can’t quite believe I placed this bet'
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Apparently, in Texas you can shoot dead an intruder without penalty if he was either armed or had a criminal record, otherwise you get a nominal fine.
    You mean, you get fined if you don't shoot him dead?
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Great round for Rixson, 84 Tory transfers to the Lib Dems.

    It's nice to see some people are still acknowledging Nick Clegg. Just not in his own party...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Apparently, in Texas you can shoot dead an intruder without penalty if he was either armed or had a criminal record, otherwise you get a nominal fine.
    You mean, you get fined if you don't shoot him dead?
    To cover the cost of the trial that your squeamishness caused, presumably?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Great in-running betting heat here. Parties are (Ind, SNP, Ind, LD, Con, Ind) top-to-bottom. I reckon Colin 'Woody' Wood might sneak this from 3rd.
    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982220107853119489

    My money would be on Rixson (I think) :)
    My tissue:

    Wood 4/5
    Rixson 11/10
    MacInnes 10/1
    £5 Rixson, 50p Macinnes
    I get the feeling I need make an intervention for you and Tissue Price.

    https://www.begambleaware.org/
    I didn't take the bet, they were tissue prices only. But you are right that @Pulpstar needs help.
    http://www.kidscancercharity.org/

    Just text CLTC25 and the amount you want to donate to 70070. So, for example, if you want to donate £10 you would send 'CLTC25 £10'. It's as easy as that. ;)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,999
    edited April 2018
    MTimT2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Except the Castle Law element of these laws allows you to use deadly force in defence of your property when you are within your home.
    Castle Laws depend on the state, in Massachusetts for example you still have to have reasonable belief of death or grievous bodily harm from someone you have killed even if they were an intruder into your own residence
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298
    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:


    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally

    Not many burglars would risk breaking into an occupied house in the middle of the night unarmed.

    Tougher sentences don't do any good except keep them off the streets for a bit longer. Most of these people have been in and out of jail all their lives.

    Therefore in principle I'm with the 61%, though the myriad of grey areas means the law has to be flexible. In principle though if you break into someone's house you deserve all you get including a frightened homeowner hitting you over the head with a hammer. If that principle were enshrined in law it might be a good deterrent though might also lead burglars to tool up with more weapons. You find you get more right wing on this when you have kids.

    Most burglars who operate at night expect to be disturbed and hence as you say are prepared.

    As to reasonable force, I'm not sure how someone might mitigate their swing with any particular implement in the heat of the moment.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982231667820523521

    Great round for Rixson, 84 Tory transfers to the Lib Dems.

    Ugh. All over, surely? Unless Woody is a nationalist?
    "The remaining independent, Colin “Woody” Wood, is a crofter who runs a caravan park in Corpach."


    Could be...
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984
    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Except the Castle Law element of these laws allows you to use deadly force in defence of your property when you are within your home.
    Castle Laws depend on the state, in Massachusetts for example you still have to have reasonable belief of death or grievous bodily harm from someone you have killed even if they were an intruder into your own residence
    Nasty weapon, sharpened screwdriver!
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Apparently, in Texas you can shoot dead an intruder without penalty if he was either armed or had a criminal record, otherwise you get a nominal fine.
    You mean, you get fined if you don't shoot him dead?
    You spot an intruder in your home, do a quick criminal records check, see that he's on his third strike for burglary, then shoot him dead?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Apparently, in Texas you can shoot dead an intruder without penalty if he was either armed or had a criminal record, otherwise you get a nominal fine.
    You mean, you get fined if you don't shoot him dead?
    You spot an intruder in your home, do a quick criminal records check, see that he's on his third strike for burglary, then shoot him dead?
    Smartphones are a real bonus, aren't they?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334
    edited April 2018



    Apparently, in Texas you can shoot dead an intruder without penalty if he was either armed or had a criminal record, otherwise you get a nominal fine.

    Interesting general legal point here. Why should it affect your sentence if something outside your knowledge or control is or is not true (such as whether the intruder has a criminal record - I presume the householder isn't expect to ask)?

    Personally I think that killing in self-defence does require some evidence of serious personal threat beyond mere intrusion. Otherwise this is a mitigating circumstance, but not a sufficient reason. Otherwise you end up with cases like the British tourist a few years ago who was shot for calling on a house to ask the way (IIRC the door was open so he peered in).
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,668

    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982231667820523521

    Great round for Rixson, 84 Tory transfers to the Lib Dems.

    Ugh. All over, surely? Unless Woody is a nationalist?
    Rixson wins:

    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982237019454693376
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982231667820523521

    Great round for Rixson, 84 Tory transfers to the Lib Dems.

    Ugh. All over, surely? Unless Woody is a nationalist?
    Rixson wins:

    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982237019454693376
    I suspect Woody may have been the Condorcet winner. Tragically we'll never know; all that beautiful preference data will be lost to humanity.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982231667820523521

    Great round for Rixson, 84 Tory transfers to the Lib Dems.

    Ugh. All over, surely? Unless Woody is a nationalist?
    Rixson wins:

    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982237019454693376
    A bookshop owner, historian and topographer?

    Sounds like my sort of candidate! :smiley:
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Except the Castle Law element of these laws allows you to use deadly force in defence of your property when you are within your home.
    Castle Laws depend on the state, in Massachusetts for example you still have to have reasonable belief of death or grievous bodily harm from someone you have killed even if they were an intruder into your own residence
    Nasty weapon, sharpened screwdriver!
    Reminds me of a friend who always carried in the back of his car a baseball and a baseball glove - made it much easier to justify the baseball bat if he ever got stopped.

    He went on to become a copper.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    HYUFD said:


    And the reason for that? As I said Corbyn largely squeezed the left of centre anti Tory vote behind him, many who voted Green or LD or even UKIP or SNP in 2015 voted Labour in 2017.

    There was almost no net Tory to Labour movement from 2015 to 2017 and helped too by UKIP voters moving to the Tories May still won the second highest number of Tory seats in 2017 for 25 years

    My pet theory is that people were more scared of a large Tory majority than of giving succour to Corbyn, not Labour, Corbyn specifically. But I don't know, no more than either of you do, although I'm prepared to lay that on the line, unlike either of you.
    I agree with that, Mr Cide., especially since the Tory campaign was designed to turn Mrs may into a virtual dictator.

    On the other hand, Mr HYUFD, I don`t think Corbyn did any squeezing. This was done for him by those who were advocating a "Progressive Alliance" - the Green Party and some short-sighted Lib Dems. I don`t think this will be repeated.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,081

    Great round for Rixson, 84 Tory transfers to the Lib Dems.

    It's nice to see some people are still acknowledging Nick Clegg. Just not in his own party...
    I'd imagine Charlie Kennedy would have more resonance than Cleggy in that part of the world, even with Tories.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982231667820523521

    Great round for Rixson, 84 Tory transfers to the Lib Dems.

    Ugh. All over, surely? Unless Woody is a nationalist?
    Rixson wins:

    https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982237019454693376
    A bookshop owner, historian and topographer?

    Sounds like my sort of candidate! :smiley:
    If he owns a bookshop and likes history he is my sort of guy too
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Except the Castle Law element of these laws allows you to use deadly force in defence of your property when you are within your home.
    Castle Laws depend on the state, in Massachusetts for example you still have to have reasonable belief of death or grievous bodily harm from someone you have killed even if they were an intruder into your own residence
    Nasty weapon, sharpened screwdriver!
    People get killed in prison with a sharpened chicken bone....
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Except the Castle Law element of these laws allows you to use deadly force in defence of your property when you are within your home.
    Castle Laws depend on the state, in Massachusetts for example you still have to have reasonable belief of death or grievous bodily harm from someone you have killed even if they were an intruder into your own residence
    Nasty weapon, sharpened screwdriver!
    Reminds me of a friend who always carried in the back of his car a baseball and a baseball glove - made it much easier to justify the baseball bat if he ever got stopped.

    He went on to become a copper.
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/russians-purchased-500000-baseball-bats-in-one-year-but-only-one-ball-report-2016-09-01
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
  • Options
    MTimT2MTimT2 Posts: 48
    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Except the Castle Law element of these laws allows you to use deadly force in defence of your property when you are within your home.
    Castle Laws depend on the state, in Massachusetts for example you still have to have reasonable belief of death or grievous bodily harm from someone you have killed even if they were an intruder into your own residence
    I am sure you can find exceptions to everything, but how Castle Laws are interpreted in real life, particularly in the South, is that you can pretty much kill people for entering your home uninvited, because no-one can really disprove your assertion that, in the heat of the moment, you had a reasonable belief of imminent danger.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:



    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws

    It also means that burglars are more routinely armed with guns and effectively if the burglary goes wrong it becomes a contest between whether the burglars or the homeowner are the better shot. The homeowner rarely comes out better when outnumbered by young fit experienced burglars. It is also common that burglars shoot people with their own guns. South Africa is perhaps an even better example of this phenomenon than the US.
    When I lived in Atlanta, Georgia law permitted shooting of intruders as self defence automatically.

    There were quite a few fatal shootings by parents of their own children sneaking in after surreptitious nights out, as well as the usual fatal shootings by burgulars whose aim was to steal guns.

    I believe that non gun-owning households are statistically safer.
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    TGOHF said:
    Whatever happened to the Home Secretary that changed the stop and search rules to ensure fewer stop and searches?
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Floater said:
    Ooh is George and Mandy’s yacht buddy not on that list ? Naughty.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,081
    edited April 2018
    How does it go again, just ordinary, decent people wanting to uphold their history, traditions and heritage?

    https://twitter.com/robmcd85/status/982235968106250240
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    TGOHF said:
    Whatever happened to the Home Secretary that changed the stop and search rules to ensure fewer stop and searches?
    You're not tipping Khan as PM again, are you?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree

    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250

    If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.

    There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
    I would.
    Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg
    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws
    Except the Castle Law element of these laws allows you to use deadly force in defence of your property when you are within your home.
    Castle Laws depend on the state, in Massachusetts for example you still have to have reasonable belief of death or grievous bodily harm from someone you have killed even if they were an intruder into your own residence
    Nasty weapon, sharpened screwdriver!
    People get killed in prison with a sharpened chicken bone....
    That they splinter into sharp objects is, IIRC, why one doesn’t give chicken carcases to dogs.

    Mind, by the time my wife’s boiled one down for soup there’s not a lot left but bone anyway.
    And we haven’t got a dog!
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984
    Foxy said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:



    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws

    It also means that burglars are more routinely armed with guns and effectively if the burglary goes wrong it becomes a contest between whether the burglars or the homeowner are the better shot. The homeowner rarely comes out better when outnumbered by young fit experienced burglars. It is also common that burglars shoot people with their own guns. South Africa is perhaps an even better example of this phenomenon than the US.

    There were quite a few fatal shootings by parents of their own children sneaking in after surreptitious nights out,

    ‘Knell, how does one live with that!
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,432
    edited April 2018
    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF said:
    Whatever happened to the Home Secretary that changed the stop and search rules to ensure fewer stop and searches?
    You're not tipping Khan as PM again, are you?
    Have I ever tipped him as next PM?

    I know I’ve tipped him as Corbyn’s successor.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:



    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws

    It also means that burglars are more routinely armed with guns and effectively if the burglary goes wrong it becomes a contest between whether the burglars or the homeowner are the better shot. The homeowner rarely comes out better when outnumbered by young fit experienced burglars. It is also common that burglars shoot people with their own guns. South Africa is perhaps an even better example of this phenomenon than the US.
    When I lived in Atlanta, Georgia law permitted shooting of intruders as self defence automatically.

    There were quite a few fatal shootings by parents of their own children sneaking in after surreptitious nights out, as well as the usual fatal shootings by burgulars whose aim was to steal guns.

    I believe that non gun-owning households are statistically safer.
    That reminds me of a question on Quora asking which was better to own for home defence, a dog or a gun.
    The answer given was a dog as it provides one thing a gun can't.
    Threat assessment, as pooch will know the difference between someone breaking in and your drunken teenage kids trying to sneak in without waking you.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF said:
    Whatever happened to the Home Secretary that changed the stop and search rules to ensure fewer stop and searches?
    You're not tipping Khan as PM again, are you?
    Have I ever tipped him as next PM?

    I know I’ve tipped him as Corbyn’s successor.
    There seems a very good chance Corbyn's successor will be a PM.

    As for next Labour leader I thought you'd tipped everyone with a pulse and a brain cell for that, and added Diane Abbott as well.
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    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF said:
    Whatever happened to the Home Secretary that changed the stop and search rules to ensure fewer stop and searches?
    You're not tipping Khan as PM again, are you?
    Have I ever tipped him as next PM?

    I know I’ve tipped him as Corbyn’s successor.
    There seems a very good chance Corbyn's successor will be a PM.

    As for next Labour leader I thought you'd tipped everyone with a pulse and a brain cell for that, and added Diane Abbott as well.
    Nah, lay David Miliband, Owen Smith, and Tony Blair.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    Foxy said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:



    Those laws only generally apply if there is a threat of serious danger to your life or serious bodily harm so are little different to the UK self defence laws

    It also means that burglars are more routinely armed with guns and effectively if the burglary goes wrong it becomes a contest between whether the burglars or the homeowner are the better shot. The homeowner rarely comes out better when outnumbered by young fit experienced burglars. It is also common that burglars shoot people with their own guns. South Africa is perhaps an even better example of this phenomenon than the US.

    There were quite a few fatal shootings by parents of their own children sneaking in after surreptitious nights out,

    ‘Knell, how does one live with that!
    It still happens:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-father-fatally-shoots-son-he-mistook-intruder-police-n495111

    The NRA would describe it as the price of freedom.
  • Options
    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF said:
    Whatever happened to the Home Secretary that changed the stop and search rules to ensure fewer stop and searches?
    You're not tipping Khan as PM again, are you?
    Have I ever tipped him as next PM?

    I know I’ve tipped him as Corbyn’s successor.
    There seems a very good chance Corbyn's successor will be a PM.

    As for next Labour leader I thought you'd tipped everyone with a pulse and a brain cell for that, and added Diane Abbott as well.
    Nah, lay David Miliband, Owen Smith, and Tony Blair.
    Laying Diane Abbott was what started Corbyn on his present path wasn’t it?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984
    edited April 2018

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    I think it’s a tribute to the imaginative and caring NHS.

    However, are Mr S and his daughter not foreign nationals? If so, who is paying for their care?
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    TGOHF said:
    Whatever happened to the Home Secretary that changed the stop and search rules to ensure fewer stop and searches?
    Where are the shout the loudest community leaders and TV News that put pressure on the government for stop and search to be changed ?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    I think it’s a tribute to the imaginative and caring NHS.

    However, are Mr S and his daughter not foreign nationals? If so, who is paying for their care?
    His daughter is, he isn't.

    Would be funny if the Russian state had to pay for Ms Skripal's care...
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TGOHF said:
    Whatever happened to the Home Secretary that changed the stop and search rules to ensure fewer stop and searches?
    You're not tipping Khan as PM again, are you?
    Have I ever tipped him as next PM?

    I know I’ve tipped him as Corbyn’s successor.
    There seems a very good chance Corbyn's successor will be a PM.

    As for next Labour leader I thought you'd tipped everyone with a pulse and a brain cell for that, and added Diane Abbott as well.
    Nah, lay David Miliband, Owen Smith, and Tony Blair.
    Thanks for the suggestion Mr Eagles but they're not quite my type.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984
    ydoethur said:

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    I think it’s a tribute to the imaginative and caring NHS.

    However, are Mr S and his daughter not foreign nationals? If so, who is paying for their care?
    His daughter is, he isn't.

    Would be funny if the Russian state had to pay for Ms Skripal's care...
    Thwere are, surely, plenty of Russian nationals living here who could be taxed to cover it......
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    TGOHF said:
    Ouch.

    She said: "It's worth remembering that although we managed to get to 45 per cent, we did not get there because of Alex Salmond.

    "In fact, in many ways, during the actual Yes campaign it was in spite of Alex Salmond. Because it was just used as a weapon, constantly – 'independence is all about the SNP and Alex Salmond'.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    ydoethur said:

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    I think it’s a tribute to the imaginative and caring NHS.

    However, are Mr S and his daughter not foreign nationals? If so, who is paying for their care?
    His daughter is, he isn't.

    Would be funny if the Russian state had to pay for Ms Skripal's care...
    Thwere are, surely, plenty of Russian nationals living here who could be taxed to cover it......
    She should have health insurance:

    https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-visitors/visiting-england/Pages/visitors-from-outside-the-eea.aspx

    However, I wonder if it will pay out on this.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Just begun The Last Wish. Interesting to read it after playing The Witcher 3, and already having some knowledge of the world/idea of certain characters.

    F1: mildly peeved Ricciardo was fastest. He was around 13 to top first practice. Not that I considered that bet and decided against making it, like a fool...
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    F1: Ricciardo is 10 (with boost) on Ladbrokes to top practice 2 (fifth the odds top 3). In the last two years, 2/3 of the top 3 from FP1 have also been top 3 in FP2.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    I think it’s a tribute to the imaginative and caring NHS.

    However, are Mr S and his daughter not foreign nationals? If so, who is paying for their care?
    Treating Nerve agents is actually straightforward, with drugs on any emergency trolley or paramedic:

    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/982238211278647301?s=19

    The damage is done by asphyxia during the gap to treatment, which is long if, as it seems here, contact was via skin rather than inhalation.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    edited April 2018

    F1: Ricciardo is 10 (with boost) on Ladbrokes to top practice 2 (fifth the odds top 3). In the last two years, 2/3 of the top 3 from FP1 have also been top 3 in FP2.

    Remember that LH abandoned his fastest lap in P1 after a lockup, and changed to a long run. Also that P1 is in the day and P2 in the night. No bet for me (not that I have a working Ladbrokes account at the moment anyway).
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    edited April 2018
    Foxy said:

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    I think it’s a tribute to the imaginative and caring NHS.

    However, are Mr S and his daughter not foreign nationals? If so, who is paying for their care?
    Treating Nerve agents is actually straightforward, with drugs on any emergency trolley or paramedic:

    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/982238211278647301?s=19

    The damage is done by asphyxia during the gap to treatment, which is long if, as it seems here, contact was via skin rather than inhalation.
    That’s a very useful analysis, which gives a clearer understanding of the biological and medical issues involved - so will be completely ignored by the Twittermobs spouting their usual ignorance, and probably most of the regular media too.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Sandpit, true, but that was also (not the Hamilton bit) true last year.

    And Mercedes/Ferrari seem to sandbag more than Red Bull.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984
    edited April 2018
    Foxy said:

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    I think it’s a tribute to the imaginative and caring NHS.

    However, are Mr S and his daughter not foreign nationals? If so, who is paying for their care?
    Treating Nerve agents is actually straightforward, with drugs on any emergency trolley or paramedic:

    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/982238211278647301?s=19

    The damage is done by asphyxia during the gap to treatment, which is long if, as it seems here, contact was via skin rather than inhalation.
    Thanks for that. Interesting article. Atropine has indeed been on emergency trolleys and trays for many years. Am reminded of the days I spent, once upon a time, checking the refilled trays when they’d been sent back to pharmacy.
    And if ‘all’ you’ve got to do is keep them breathing that’s a pretty standard, if sometimes tedious, process.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,840

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    Or Princess Diana.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    Sean_F said:

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    Or Princess Diana.
    That was Prince Philip surely? A sad loss that he has retired from actively conspiring.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    I think it’s a tribute to the imaginative and caring NHS.

    However, are Mr S and his daughter not foreign nationals? If so, who is paying for their care?
    Treating Nerve agents is actually straightforward, with drugs on any emergency trolley or paramedic:

    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/982238211278647301?s=19

    The damage is done by asphyxia during the gap to treatment, which is long if, as it seems here, contact was via skin rather than inhalation.
    That’s a very useful analysis, which gives a clearer understanding of the biological and medical issues involved - so will be completely ignored by the Twittermobs spouting their usual ignorance, and probably most of the regular media too.

    It seems as if the couple were quite well initially in the pub, as Mr Skripal ordered two glasses of wine at the bar, took them to the table, then went to the lavatory. When he returned, he appeared unwell, then both him and his daughter left their drinks and went to get some air on the nearby bench. The alarm was raised shortly afterwards, so the untreated exposure time was probably hours.

    According to what my sources say :)
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,668
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    Or Princess Diana.
    That was Prince Philip surely? A sad loss that he has retired from actively conspiring.
    Nah....everyone knows it was the queen mum......
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    New thread, comrades.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    I think it’s a tribute to the imaginative and caring NHS.

    However, are Mr S and his daughter not foreign nationals? If so, who is paying for their care?
    Treating Nerve agents is actually straightforward, with drugs on any emergency trolley or paramedic:

    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/982238211278647301?s=19

    The damage is done by asphyxia during the gap to treatment, which is long if, as it seems here, contact was via skin rather than inhalation.
    That’s a very useful analysis, which gives a clearer understanding of the biological and medical issues involved - so will be completely ignored by the Twittermobs spouting their usual ignorance, and probably most of the regular media too.
    Thing is, though, anything that Dan knows, so presumably does Russia.

    So the question can still be asked if not why did they survive, but why did they survive given that nerve agent behaviour is well understood at least by state actors?
  • Options

    NEW THREAD

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Someone in the KGB is going to be sleeping with the fishes.

    https://twitter.com/telepolitics/status/982243902160715776?s=21

    They should have followed the playbook MI6 did with David Kelly.

    I think it’s a tribute to the imaginative and caring NHS.

    However, are Mr S and his daughter not foreign nationals? If so, who is paying for their care?
    Treating Nerve agents is actually straightforward, with drugs on any emergency trolley or paramedic:

    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/982238211278647301?s=19

    The damage is done by asphyxia during the gap to treatment, which is long if, as it seems here, contact was via skin rather than inhalation.
    That’s a very useful analysis, which gives a clearer understanding of the biological and medical issues involved - so will be completely ignored by the Twittermobs spouting their usual ignorance, and probably most of the regular media too.

    It seems as if the couple were quite well initially in the pub, as Mr Skripal ordered two glasses of wine at the bar, took them to the table, then went to the lavatory. When he returned, he appeared unwell, then both him and his daughter left their drinks and went to get some air on the nearby bench. The alarm was raised shortly afterwards, so the untreated exposure time was probably hours.

    According to what my sources say :)
    Interesting...

    I find the timeline fascinating, that the two people could be exposed several hours previously yet fall seriously ill within minutes of each other. I’m sure we’ll get (most of) the details eventually.
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    I'll put this here to avoid dragging the new one off topic I had to go earlier.

    @ydoethur
    ________________________________
    I accept your statement that if my premise is correct you consider what is happening to be wrong. In fact, from your posting history and our previous discussions I would have expected nothing less from you. But do you not think as matters stand this looks very bad?
    __________________________________

    Yes it does look bad.

    @MikeSmithson

    Outside of this motion which has come and gone nothing else should happen in a time frame which would see it strongly linked back to her attendance of the protest. If she does get deselected or decides to step down before the next election that would probably be a couple of years away if not more. Whilst this could get brought up if it did happen I don't think the argument would be strong enough that it was linked back to this, although I may be wrong on that.
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