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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How Corbyn’s LAB compares with predecessors on local election

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited May 8 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How Corbyn’s LAB compares with predecessors on local election performance

Chart from @markpack showing LAB leaders' average national vote share in local elections while in opposition pic.twitter.com/JbMepPJH4r

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Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146
    Mike should just bugger off and join the LibDems! :lol:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,817
    Second!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,383
    edited May 8
    Corbyn may have the lowest average local election voteshare of any Labour leader since 1980 but he can also claim he got the second highest Labour general election voteshare of any Labour leader over that period after Tony Blair.

    Corbyn also at least has a modicum of respect for the Leave vote in the EU referendum by agreeing we have to leave the EEA and end free movement, which after tonight's Lords vote is more than can be said for the LDs and some diehard Remainer Labour and Tory Parliamentarians
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 10,548
    Could we have a corresponding chart for the performance of LibDems when in opposition ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,625
    OOooooooooooooooooooh Jeremy CORBYN.

    There is some amazing optimism for the yellow team in Lewisham on Betfair btw.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,736
    Pulpstar said:

    OOooooooooooooooooooh Jeremy CORBYN.

    There is some amazing optimism for the yellow team in Lewisham on Betfair btw.

    Not sure the kids will be using this version of the track for their cult chant....

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,779
    I thought we had been promised that the last but one thread was the final word on LE2018? Not that an opportunity to laugh at Corbyn should be missed.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,818

    Could we have a corresponding chart for the performance of LibDems when in opposition ?

    Presumably so you can have another jibe at the party.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,103
    DavidL said:

    I thought we had been promised that the last but one thread was the final word on LE2018? Not that an opportunity to laugh at Corbyn should be missed.

    I enjoy working my way through LE 2018
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,955
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I thought we had been promised that the last but one thread was the final word on LE2018? Not that an opportunity to laugh at Corbyn should be missed.

    I enjoy working my way through LE 2018
    Has there been a Local Election?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,736
    Scott_P said:
    How the nonce finder general is still in a position to have any say about anything is quite incredible.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146
    stodge said:

    Could we have a corresponding chart for the performance of LibDems when in opposition ?

    Presumably so you can have another jibe at the party.

    Mike is having another jibe at the Glorious Labour Leader
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,779
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    I thought we had been promised that the last but one thread was the final word on LE2018? Not that an opportunity to laugh at Corbyn should be missed.

    I enjoy working my way through LE 2018
    In fairness it was more interesting than most thanks to the something for everybody result.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,955
    Off topic, whatever the rights and wrongs of the reported story, this is a brilliant headline:

    Hung, withdrawn and re-quartered: May portrait in Oxford row

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/08/theresa-may-portrait-removed-from-oxford-university-display-after-protest
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,779
    And while we are having a laugh can anyone explain how this was the best result for Labour since the Levellers?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,779

    Off topic, whatever the rights and wrongs of the reported story, this is a brilliant headline:

    Hung, withdrawn and re-quartered: May portrait in Oxford row

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/08/theresa-may-portrait-removed-from-oxford-university-display-after-protest

    Agreed. Unfortunately the headline is way better than the story.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,955
    DavidL said:

    Off topic, whatever the rights and wrongs of the reported story, this is a brilliant headline:

    Hung, withdrawn and re-quartered: May portrait in Oxford row

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/08/theresa-may-portrait-removed-from-oxford-university-display-after-protest

    Agreed. Unfortunately the headline is way better than the story.
    It's often the way. The trailers are better than the film; the cover is better than the book; the manifesto is better than the record in government.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,812
    stodge said:

    Could we have a corresponding chart for the performance of LibDems when in opposition ?

    Presumably so you can have another jibe at the party.

    I thought the Lib Dem vote was actually increasing not decreasing.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 10,548
    stodge said:

    Could we have a corresponding chart for the performance of LibDems when in opposition ?

    Presumably so you can have another jibe at the party.

    Of course :wink:

    But I thought it might be interesting and here it is:

    Kennedy 2000-2004 26%
    Steel / Owen 1984-1987 25%
    Campbell 2006-2007 24.5%
    Clegg 2008-2009 24%
    Steel / Jenkins 1982-1983 23.5%
    Ashdown 1989-1999 23%
    Steel / Maclennan 1988 18%
    Farron 2016-2017 16%
    Steel 1980-1981 15%
    Cable 2018 14%
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,048
    We had a mediocre set of local election results. Any of my Labour comrades who says otherwise is either bullshitting or is deluded.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,937
    On the customs partnership, I found this interesting comment (i think from MaxPB) from over a year ago. If it is him, then kudos for foresight is warranted:

    "I think a reverse Switzerland needs looking at, I did some preliminary research, but I didn't get a chance to complete it before I left.

    Essentially the idea is to extend the EU customs zone to the UK for any re-exported goods and the UK acts as a customs agent for the EU, those tariffs are set by the EU and conform to their rates. For goods that don't get re-exported to the EU we would have our own tariff rate. Any increment would be payable on exportation to the EU. Slightly more complicated than just staying in the customs union, but much more flexible for our domestic markets and for exports to non-EU destinations. "
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,048

    stodge said:

    Could we have a corresponding chart for the performance of LibDems when in opposition ?

    Presumably so you can have another jibe at the party.

    I thought the Lib Dem vote was actually increasing not decreasing.
    Down on last year's locals.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,074
    edited May 8
    Easier and more interesting te talk about Labour than the LibDems, who 3 years on from the coalition are still on life support. Their lack of progress is remarkable.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,037
    What are the average vote shares for each leader in general elections then Mike?
    Continual triumph of hope over experience for the sufferers of Corbyn derangement syndrome shown in fine form by OGH over the last couple of threads.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 10,548
    DavidL said:

    And while we are having a laugh can anyone explain how this was the best result for Labour since the Levellers?

    The odd thing is that a 37/36/14 split is similar to:

    1984 38/37/21
    1988 39/38/18
    2011 38/37/16
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,937
    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 10,548

    We had a mediocre set of local election results. Any of my Labour comrades who says otherwise is either bullshitting or is deluded.

    It was a well deserved mediocrity all around.

    But Labour has certainly lost in the spin battle.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,285
    edited May 8
    Someone's **** up on the archive rail footage today. The BBC showed a clip labelled 1996 when clearly it was from the late 70s/early 80s.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,902

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 1,991
    edited May 8

    We had a mediocre set of local election results. Any of my Labour comrades who says otherwise is either bullshitting or is deluded.

    It was poor, especially in London (vs expectation).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,937

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    Cripes. Perhaps I'll give it a miss then.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 4,970
    I have a solution for how to carry ouit the structural repairs to the Houses of Parliament.

    Abolish the House of Lords. The House of Commons can move in there whilst their own area gets refurbished.

    Has the bonus of removing he undemocratic Lords who are trying to frustrate Brexit.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    LOL at the Israeli entry :lol:
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 10,548

    I have a solution for how to carry ouit the structural repairs to the Houses of Parliament.

    Abolish the House of Lords. The House of Commons can move in there whilst their own area gets refurbished.

    Has the bonus of removing he undemocratic Lords who are trying to frustrate Brexit.

    Replace the HoL with PB.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    First semi was on tonight, second semi 8pm Thursday (BBC4), main final Saturday 8pm on BBC1.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146

    We had a mediocre set of local election results. Any of my Labour comrades who says otherwise is either bullshitting or is deluded.

    First foray onto the Northeastern rail network in over a year - did the Grand Central train from Northallerton to Sunderland today!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,902

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    Cripes. Perhaps I'll give it a miss then.
    Wait till you see Estonia's entry, it's where my money is going.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,481
    Very droll, but takes no account of 3rd or 4th party performances.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146

    I have a solution for how to carry ouit the structural repairs to the Houses of Parliament.

    Abolish the House of Lords. The House of Commons can move in there whilst their own area gets refurbished.

    Has the bonus of removing he undemocratic Lords who are trying to frustrate Brexit.

    Replace the HoL with PB.
    All-PBer shortlists!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,048
    murali_s said:

    We had a mediocre set of local election results. Any of my Labour comrades who says otherwise is either bullshitting or is deluded.

    It was poor, especially in London (vs expectation).
    The expectation was nonsense. The London results were fairly decent. In contrast some of our results further north were poor.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,902

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    LOL at the Israeli entry :lol:
    Yeah, the Israeli entry is camper than a row of pink tents.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=CziHrYYSyPc
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 21,839
    If Labour lose Lewisham East I wonder who or what the Corbynites will blame.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146

    Very droll, but takes no account of 3rd or 4th party performances.
    You are just in denial of Jeremy's glorious improvement in Labour vote-share over Miliband in 2015!

    What are you? Some kind of Tory?! :lol:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,048

    We had a mediocre set of local election results. Any of my Labour comrades who says otherwise is either bullshitting or is deluded.

    First foray onto the Northeastern rail network in over a year - did the Grand Central train from Northallerton to Sunderland today!
    I hope that the AC was working better than on the last Grand Central train I caught!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,481
    Scott_P said:
    Which just shows that is nothing - no principle, no policy, no ancient bond - that Mogg and chums would not sell down the river for their raving, insatiable appetite for the hardest Brexit.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,103
    AndyJS said:

    If Labour lose Lewisham East I wonder who or what the Corbynites will blame.

    Mossad.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 983

    Scott_P said:
    Which just shows that is nothing - no principle, no policy, no ancient bond - that Mogg and chums would not sell down the river for their raving, insatiable appetite for the hardest Brexit.
    Indeed, it is risible.

    But that’s Brexit for you - a farce, not a policy. The daily gags continue from Jacob Rees and his fellow clowns.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 21,839
    BritainElects:

    "Local election results within Lewisham East constituency:

    Lab: 48.7% (+7.2)
    Con: 18.9% (+4.5)
    Grn: 14.9% (+4.7)
    LDem: 12.9% (+1.2)
    UKIP: 1.3% (-6.6)
    [Oth]: 3.3% (-9.8)

    Chgs. w/ 2014
    Top vote method."
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 983

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    Cripes. Perhaps I'll give it a miss then.
    Wait till you see Estonia's entry, it's where my money is going.

    Does anyone watch this utter drivel?
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,037
    AndyJS said:

    If Labour lose Lewisham East I wonder who or what the Corbynites will blame.

    Any other extremely unlikely hypothetical questions to pose? Who would Corbynistas blame if Corbyn crushed planet earth into a singularity by inadvertently creating a wormhole on his allotment?

    Lewisham East is not going Lib Dem in the next million years, no matter what bizarre wishful thinking Mike seems to whip himself into when he is suffering another attack of Corbyn derangement.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146
    Anazina said:

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    Cripes. Perhaps I'll give it a miss then.
    Wait till you see Estonia's entry, it's where my money is going.

    Does anyone watch this utter drivel?
    That's the Brexiteer in you speaking, I take it?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,414
    Anazina said:

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    Cripes. Perhaps I'll give it a miss then.
    Wait till you see Estonia's entry, it's where my money is going.

    Does anyone watch this utter drivel?
    I voted Brexit because I thought it meant we couldn’t be part of Eurovision any more
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146

    We had a mediocre set of local election results. Any of my Labour comrades who says otherwise is either bullshitting or is deluded.

    First foray onto the Northeastern rail network in over a year - did the Grand Central train from Northallerton to Sunderland today!
    I hope that the AC was working better than on the last Grand Central train I caught!
    AC was fine, but on the return leg (I changed at York to get to Brum this evening), the at-seat power sockets tripped!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    Anazina said:

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    Cripes. Perhaps I'll give it a miss then.
    Wait till you see Estonia's entry, it's where my money is going.

    Does anyone watch this utter drivel?
    It's always worth skimming through the highlights to see which nation has been the craziest.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 983
    JWisemann said:

    AndyJS said:

    If Labour lose Lewisham East I wonder who or what the Corbynites will blame.

    Any other extremely unlikely hypothetical questions to pose? Who would Corbynistas blame if Corbyn crushed planet earth into a singularity by inadvertently creating a wormhole on his allotment?

    :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345

    Very droll, but takes no account of 3rd or 4th party performances.
    Indeed - you take that kind of method and May cannot be criticised really, as she had such a great percentage. And it was high, but that didn't exactly help her.
  • basicbridgebasicbridge Posts: 132

    murali_s said:

    We had a mediocre set of local election results. Any of my Labour comrades who says otherwise is either bullshitting or is deluded.

    It was poor, especially in London (vs expectation).
    The expectation was nonsense. The London results were fairly decent. In contrast some of our results further north were poor.
    The “expectation” was promulgated by Labour itself. Hubris...

    Now to be followed by nemesis....

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    Scott_P said:
    The spiritual cousins to fairweather PR supporters, fairweather HoL reformers. It'd be nice to sort it out one way or another at some point though.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 983
    Charles said:

    Anazina said:

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    Cripes. Perhaps I'll give it a miss then.
    Wait till you see Estonia's entry, it's where my money is going.

    Does anyone watch this utter drivel?
    I voted Brexit because I thought it meant we couldn’t be part of Eurovision any more
    Another scurrilous but powerful Leave lie! :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146
    edited May 8
    Charles said:

    Anazina said:

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    Cripes. Perhaps I'll give it a miss then.
    Wait till you see Estonia's entry, it's where my money is going.

    Does anyone watch this utter drivel?
    I voted Brexit because I thought it meant we couldn’t be part of Eurovision any more
    I guess that's why Russia, Turkey, Iceland, Norway, Belarus, Ukraine, Serbia, Albania, Bosnia, Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan and Australia(!!!!) all take part :)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,184
    DavidL said:

    And while we are having a laugh can anyone explain how this was the best result for Labour since the Levellers?

    The Levellers were suppressed by the New Model Army following the Putney Debates as I recall, with ringleaders executed following the Corkbush Field mutiny.

    Compared to that, last weeks Labour results are a triumph...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 26,146
    kle4 said:

    Very droll, but takes no account of 3rd or 4th party performances.
    Indeed - you take that kind of method and May cannot be criticised really, as she had such a great percentage. And it was high, but that didn't exactly help her.
    You are just in denial of Jeremy's glorious improvement in Labour vote-share over Miliband in 2015!

    What are you? Some kind of Tory?! :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    JWisemann said:

    AndyJS said:

    If Labour lose Lewisham East I wonder who or what the Corbynites will blame.

    Lewisham East is not going Lib Dem in the next million years, no matter what bizarre wishful thinking Mike seems to whip himself into when he is suffering another attack of Corbyn derangement.
    Mike Smithson in previous thread header:

    This is this is very solid territory for the party and it is hard to see anything other than a LAB hold.

    Raising the very faint possibility of 'we live in interesting times, so who knows?' doesn't mean he was stated the LDs were going to win, or were even likely to.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,433
    JWisemann said:

    AndyJS said:

    If Labour lose Lewisham East I wonder who or what the Corbynites will blame.

    Any other extremely unlikely hypothetical questions to pose? Who would Corbynistas blame if Corbyn crushed planet earth into a singularity by inadvertently creating a wormhole on his allotment?
    ...
    That’s as simple as ABC... anyone but Corbyn.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    A Momentum spokesperson said on the night of the locals that the results were mixed. Given they are, to put it mildly, Corbyn fans, I regard that as pretty good circumstantial evidence that the results were indeed mixed, and other super fans getting worked up in over compensating defence are overdoing it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345

    kle4 said:

    Very droll, but takes no account of 3rd or 4th party performances.
    Indeed - you take that kind of method and May cannot be criticised really, as she had such a great percentage. And it was high, but that didn't exactly help her.
    You are just in denial of Jeremy's glorious improvement in Labour vote-share over Miliband in 2015!

    What are you? Some kind of Tory?! :lol:
    Well I did vote for them once, though they're not encouraging me to do so again.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 14,161

    On the customs partnership, I found this interesting comment (i think from MaxPB) from over a year ago. If it is him, then kudos for foresight is warranted:

    "I think a reverse Switzerland needs looking at, I did some preliminary research, but I didn't get a chance to complete it before I left.

    Essentially the idea is to extend the EU customs zone to the UK for any re-exported goods and the UK acts as a customs agent for the EU, those tariffs are set by the EU and conform to their rates. For goods that don't get re-exported to the EU we would have our own tariff rate. Any increment would be payable on exportation to the EU. Slightly more complicated than just staying in the customs union, but much more flexible for our domestic markets and for exports to non-EU destinations. "

    Yes, that was me. I was writing a report I never got to finish because I went on gardening leave.

    It is still a feasible idea and would serve us well for 3-5 years while the government figures out our global trade position.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    And while we are having a laugh can anyone explain how this was the best result for Labour since the Levellers?

    The Levellers were suppressed by the New Model Army following the Putney Debates as I recall, with ringleaders executed following the Corkbush Field mutiny.
    Debates were much more intense back then.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    Sean_F said:

    AndyJS said:

    If Labour lose Lewisham East I wonder who or what the Corbynites will blame.

    Mossad.
    If they lose Lewisham East someone probably would have been behind it!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,184
    kle4 said:

    Anazina said:

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    Cripes. Perhaps I'll give it a miss then.
    Wait till you see Estonia's entry, it's where my money is going.

    Does anyone watch this utter drivel?
    It's always worth skimming through the highlights to see which nation has been the craziest.
    Moldovan rappers wearing giant pixie hats...

    Worth watching for the unicycling fairy playing the trumpet alone:

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,625
    JWisemann said:

    AndyJS said:

    If Labour lose Lewisham East I wonder who or what the Corbynites will blame.

    Any other extremely unlikely hypothetical questions to pose? Who would Corbynistas blame if Corbyn crushed planet earth into a singularity by inadvertently creating a wormhole on his allotment?

    Lewisham East is not going Lib Dem in the next million years, no matter what bizarre wishful thinking Mike seems to whip himself into when he is suffering another attack of Corbyn derangement.
    Well it might in the next million years.. but I doubt it will in 3 months time or whenever the by-election is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    Pulpstar said:

    JWisemann said:

    AndyJS said:

    If Labour lose Lewisham East I wonder who or what the Corbynites will blame.

    Any other extremely unlikely hypothetical questions to pose? Who would Corbynistas blame if Corbyn crushed planet earth into a singularity by inadvertently creating a wormhole on his allotment?

    Lewisham East is not going Lib Dem in the next million years, no matter what bizarre wishful thinking Mike seems to whip himself into when he is suffering another attack of Corbyn derangement.
    Well it might in the next million years.. but I doubt it will in 3 months time or whenever the by-election is.
    Good news is a million years will give us time for the Cabinet sub-committee to come to a view on customs. Not the whole Cabinet though, we have to be realistic.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    Am I the only one disappointed, in puerile fashion, the the headline writers haven't had the guts to just have a big line of 'Trump Pulls Out'?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,184
    HYUFD said:
    Not much for May in that lot, but it does show why Jezza has such a following
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,685
    edited May 8
    MaxPB said:

    On the customs partnership, I found this interesting comment (i think from MaxPB) from over a year ago. If it is him, then kudos for foresight is warranted:

    "I think a reverse Switzerland needs looking at, I did some preliminary research, but I didn't get a chance to complete it before I left.

    Essentially the idea is to extend the EU customs zone to the UK for any re-exported goods and the UK acts as a customs agent for the EU, those tariffs are set by the EU and conform to their rates. For goods that don't get re-exported to the EU we would have our own tariff rate. Any increment would be payable on exportation to the EU. Slightly more complicated than just staying in the customs union, but much more flexible for our domestic markets and for exports to non-EU destinations. "

    Yes, that was me. I was writing a report I never got to finish because I went on gardening leave.

    It is still a feasible idea and would serve us well for 3-5 years while the government figures out our global trade position.
    Your proposal actually makes more sense than the 'import at EU rates but refund the difference if they don't stay in the uk' civil service proposal....

    But it isn't a desirable end state, as you rightly suggest.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 570
    HYUFD said:
    What we say we like and what we actually vote for are different. A lot of people pointed out Javids chances of becoming leader would be inhibited by being bald, as bald men disproportionately lose elections due to attractiveness bias.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    HYUFD said:
    I am skeptical of such polling (albeit each of these things is around 70% important, none unimportant), because what we want and what we say we want may be different things. It's often said the public wants centrist politics, or for parties to work together, but we don't, we actively reward the opposite.

    I also struggle with putting up single word summaries of character like 'wise' up against 'dresses well' or 'comfortable mixing with people'.

    And finally, of course, would such polling ever surprise? We want someone honest, hard working, principled, strong, wise, who is also warmly inspiring, good with people, sounds good and has had the right kind of job.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,383
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:
    Not much for May in that lot, but it does show why Jezza has such a following
    May does quite well for being genuine, working hard, sincerity etc and she dresses well
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,383

    HYUFD said:
    What we say we like and what we actually vote for are different. A lot of people pointed out Javids chances of becoming leader would be inhibited by being bald, as bald men disproportionately lose elections due to attractiveness bias.
    That is not entirely true, Berlusconi, John Howard, Eisenhower, Churchill all managed to win at least one election despite being bald
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    edited May 8
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:
    Not much for May in that lot, but it does show why Jezza has such a following
    No it doesn't, since before her fall from grace at the GE I'm sure May would have scored well among CON for most of them. When Corbyn falls, as all politicians do, people will scoff at the idea he embodied some of them. First time an unpopular policy is implemented, or a u-turn is made, suddenly he won't be 'in touch', 'understanding everday life' or be 'principled'.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,383
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I am skeptical of such polling (albeit each of these things is around 70% important, none unimportant), because what we want and what we say we want may be different things. It's often said the public wants centrist politics, or for parties to work together, but we don't, we actively reward the opposite.

    I also struggle with putting up single word summaries of character like 'wise' up against 'dresses well' or 'comfortable mixing with people'.

    And finally, of course, would such polling ever surprise? We want someone honest, hard working, principled, strong, wise, who is also warmly inspiring, good with people, sounds good and has had the right kind of job.
    Indeed but rarely do we get someone with all those qualities
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,184
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:
    Not much for May in that lot, but it does show why Jezza has such a following
    May does quite well for being genuine, working hard, sincerity etc and she dresses well
    I would disagree with all of those as May attributes.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 570
    Charles said:

    Anazina said:

    I have two questions for the PB Brains Trust:

    (1) When, and at what time, is the Eurovision song contest on this year?
    (2) Are the Polish washerwomen competing again?

    I thank you.

    The first semi was today, the second semi is on Thursday.

    The Contest proper starts 8pm on Saturday night on BBC1.

    No Polish Milk Maids this time.

    IMHO I think the entries this year are so camp that if Fred Phelps was alive and watched this year's contest he'd turn gay.
    Cripes. Perhaps I'll give it a miss then.
    Wait till you see Estonia's entry, it's where my money is going.

    Does anyone watch this utter drivel?
    I voted Brexit because I thought it meant we couldn’t be part of Eurovision any more
    I would have voted for Brexit if it had meant getting rid of Osborne. I see he has popped up abasing tonight. Here's a clue George. If you were so good why didn't you do better when you were in Government?
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,140
    It appears Israel has wasted no time backing up its rhetoric. Yet another strike in Syria against a surface to surface missile convoy at the south end of Damascus.

    And they may not be done for the night. Everyone, apparently, knows they are coming but no one seems to be able to organise to successfully step them back.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,329
    edited May 8
    I'm surprised there's not more discussion of the Lords vote on the EEA. I think it's actually unprecedented in modern British history for either House to pass a motion against the wishes of the leadership of BOTH major parties. Indeed, can anyone find a precedent even in previous centuries?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:
    Not much for May in that lot, but it does show why Jezza has such a following
    May does quite well for being genuine, working hard, sincerity etc and she dresses well
    I would disagree with all of those as May attributes.
    And someone else will disagree that Corbyn has some of the qualities you think he has. Hence why it doesn't show why he has such a following at all.

    That he has a following is incontestable, and some of those will be given as reasons, but of course they are, we see strength and wisdom in our leaders, we believe they understand us, and are clever etc.
  • William_HWilliam_H Posts: 312
    So what this chart is saying is, that the 2017 local elections were actually pretty bad(!) Amazing, that will definitely change peoples views. That's definitely more relevant than the subsequent general election and the local election that happened a few days ago.

    (Not that the locals were stunning for Labour, they were meh for everyone except the Lib Dems, and the Lib Dems were only good by the remarkably low standards of recent years)
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 570
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    What we say we like and what we actually vote for are different. A lot of people pointed out Javids chances of becoming leader would be inhibited by being bald, as bald men disproportionately lose elections due to attractiveness bias.
    That is not entirely true, Berlusconi, John Howard, Eisenhower, Churchill all managed to win at least one election despite being bald
    Well yes but my main point is that what we say in answer to a poll, and what we actually like are two different things. I mean a number of the most popular ones apply to Nigel Farage. When people state that it is important to mean what they say, there is a big caveat which is as long as I agree with it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,383

    I'm surprised there's not more discussion of the Lords vote on the EEA. I think it's actually unprecedented in modern British history for either House to pass a motion against the wishes of the leadership of BOTH major parties. Indeed, can anyone find a precedent even in previous centuries?

    Their Lordships vote against the wishes of the working class Leave voting plebs to end free movement and leave the EEA. Not much more needs to be said, it is not much of a surprise
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,071
    I think we are entering a constitutional crisis, without a constitution.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,383
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:
    Not much for May in that lot, but it does show why Jezza has such a following
    May does quite well for being genuine, working hard, sincerity etc and she dresses well
    I would disagree with all of those as May attributes.
    Hardly surprising as you are anti Tory
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 30,345
    RoyalBlue said:

    I think we are entering a constitutional crisis, without a constitution.

    We do have a constitution. A very detailed one.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,383

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    What we say we like and what we actually vote for are different. A lot of people pointed out Javids chances of becoming leader would be inhibited by being bald, as bald men disproportionately lose elections due to attractiveness bias.
    That is not entirely true, Berlusconi, John Howard, Eisenhower, Churchill all managed to win at least one election despite being bald
    Well yes but my main point is that what we say in answer to a poll, and what we actually like are two different things. I mean a number of the most popular ones apply to Nigel Farage. When people state that it is important to mean what they say, there is a big caveat which is as long as I agree with it.
    Nigel Farage got 12% of the vote in 2015 and was a key driver of the Leave vote
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,184
    HYUFD said:

    I'm surprised there's not more discussion of the Lords vote on the EEA. I think it's actually unprecedented in modern British history for either House to pass a motion against the wishes of the leadership of BOTH major parties. Indeed, can anyone find a precedent even in previous centuries?

    Their Lordships vote against the wishes of the working class Leave voting plebs to end free movement and leave the EEA. Not much more needs to be said, it is not much of a surprise
    If only those horny handed sons of toil Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees Mogg and Nigel Farage could save us!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 40,383
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    I'm surprised there's not more discussion of the Lords vote on the EEA. I think it's actually unprecedented in modern British history for either House to pass a motion against the wishes of the leadership of BOTH major parties. Indeed, can anyone find a precedent even in previous centuries?

    Their Lordships vote against the wishes of the working class Leave voting plebs to end free movement and leave the EEA. Not much more needs to be said, it is not much of a surprise
    If only those horny handed sons of toil Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees Mogg and Nigel Farage could save us!
    They are more in tune with working class voters on Brexit than their Lordships
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,071
    kle4 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    I think we are entering a constitutional crisis, without a constitution.

    We do have a constitution. A very detailed one.
    We have a system of government.

    Brexit is showing it up as the nonsensical, chaotic, unserious monstrosity that it is.

    Bring on a general election.
This discussion has been closed.