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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With just over six months to go until Brexit day YouGov looks

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited September 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With just over six months to go until Brexit day YouGov looks where the public stands

1/ Public opinion has drifted slightly against Brexit. On average this year there has been a 3 point lead of those who think Britain was wrong to vote for Brexit over those who think Britain was right to do so https://t.co/3SXfJa1bAf pic.twitter.com/yaBm2gLrEP

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,995
    edited September 2018
    Thirst.

    Mrs May might just be as remarkable a survivor as Corbyn: perhaps more so, given she actually has power and all the problems that brings.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    edited September 2018

    Thirst.

    I had a choirmaster once who was always off down the boozer immediately after a church service.

    He said when challenged that Jesus advises you should have a thirst after righteousness.
  • Options
    Following up the RFK discussion on last thread. I am also watching the extended version of Ken Burns Vietnam series.

    I know many of us think Trump is an utter disaster and tearing the US apart, but when you look at the state of thinks over there in late 1960s, then he is a long way from causing the sort of schisms that that war and the civil rights issue did. Assassinations, riots, students being shot on campus by the home guard etc etc.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    The problem with this questionnaire is that there is no deal being discussed except a withdrawal to a time limited extension. This doesn't look like any of the suggested options.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Thirst.

    I had a choirmaster once who was always off down the boozer immediately after a church service.

    He said when challenged that Jesus advises you should have a thirst after righteousness.
    Sounds a little whisky if he'd got caught: he'd be wineing about the injustice of it all, and would require some fortification before starting his en-gin and heading home.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    I see remaining in the EU is a net negative

    You never would have guessed it from the constant posts of the remainiacs on here.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,760
    edited September 2018
    I didn't get to go to EPOP2018 and looking at the twitter feed I'm wishing I had. Has anybody got any slides from the presentations?

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/EPOP2018?src=hash
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Following up the RFK discussion on last thread. I am also watching the extended version of Ken Burns Vietnam series.

    I know many of us think Trump is an utter disaster and tearing the US apart, but when you look at the state of thinks over there in late 1960s, then he is a long way from causing the sort of schisms that that war and the civil rights issue did. Assassinations, riots, students being shot on campus by the home guard etc etc.

    That was an absolutely awesome series.

    I Enjoyed all of it but the oral history from combatants of both sides was very moving and humbling
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,760
    Floater said:

    I see remaining in the EU is a net negative.

    So what's wrong with nets? There's nothing wrong with a string mesh! Show us on the doll where the fisherman touched you...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    ydoethur said:

    Thirst.

    I had a choirmaster once who was always off down the boozer immediately after a church service.

    He said when challenged that Jesus advises you should have a thirst after righteousness.
    Sounds a little whisky if he'd got caught: he'd be wineing about the injustice of it all, and would require some fortification before starting his en-gin and heading home.
    It came in useful. One time he was being lectured by an exceptionally dumb Evangelical on how he wasn't a real Christian as he 'hadn't seen Jesus.' Very narked, his retort was, 'You don't know what I've seen after I've had a few.'

    Brilliant riposte. I use it when teaching about the argument from religious experience. Much safer than the unforgettable time a fourteen year old girl told me it wasn't a valid argument 'because you can't get inside me, sir.'

    As for your puns, they're unbeerable.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Fair play, he has him bang to rights.
  • Options
    Hamilton might be a great driver, but the way he always manages to get his sponsors name into a TV interview is positively superhuman.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited September 2018
    Were they making the same excuses for Serena in 2009 at the US open when she threatened to shove a ball down the throat of an Asian female lines official for daring to foot fault her? The poor lineswoman actually thought she had threatened to kill her. She was of course playing a woman at the time who had just returned to tennis from giving birth.

    Its far too easy to give powerful multi millionaire sports people a free pass. Her opponent last weekend was a woman of mixed African American and Japanese origin - the difference was she has no history of being a sore loser and disrespecting officials. And her deserved first Slam victory was totally overshadowed by her opponents actions.

    https://youtu.be/vCL8may1Hes
  • Options
    So May was wrong.

    No deal (-34) isn't better than a bad deal (-22).

    However, a 'no deal' deal would appear to be the most popular Brexit option. Public opinion , eh?
  • Options

    Hamilton might be a great driver, but the way he always manages to get his sponsors name into a TV interview is positively superhuman.

    That's because F1 isn't a sport, it is a 2-hour long commercial break.
  • Options
    So, in summary, there's no pleasing 'em.

    It's frankly remarkable in the circumstances that anyone wants to be PM.
  • Options
    The poll also has an important implication for the idea of a repeat 'people's vote': there's no answer which will provide much guidance to MPs.
  • Options
    It’s not exactly looking promising. Few seem to be persuaded by sunlit uplands of any type.
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    Mr. 16, agree entirely on that. Williams is, on occasion at least, an aggressive bully.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Perhaps this isn’t so bad for May. If she can get a deal that disappoints the Ultras but doesn’t lead to economic meltdown, a lot of people will be pleasantly surprised, thanks to rock-bottom expectations. The disappointed Ultras will keep voting Tory.
  • Options
    brendan16 said:

    Were they making the same excuses for Serena in 2009 at the US open when she threatened to shove a ball down the throat of an Asian female lines official for daring to foot fault her? The poor lineswoman actually thought she had threatened to kill her. She was of course playing a woman at the time who had just returned to tennis from giving birth.

    Its far too easy to give powerful multi millionaire sports people a free pass. Her opponent last weekend was a woman of mixed African American and Japanese origin - the difference was she has no history of being a sore loser and disrespecting officials. And her deserved first Slam victory was totally overshadowed by her opponents actions.

    https://youtu.be/vCL8may1Hes
    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bar and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    brendan16 said:

    Were they making the same excuses for Serena in 2009 at the US open when she threatened to shove a ball down the throat of an Asian female lines official for daring to foot fault her? The poor lineswoman actually thought she had threatened to kill her. She was of course playing a woman at the time who had just returned to tennis from giving birth.

    Its far too easy to give powerful multi millionaire sports people a free pass. Her opponent last weekend was a woman of mixed African American and Japanese origin - the difference was she has no history of being a sore loser and disrespecting officials. And her deserved first Slam victory was totally overshadowed by her opponents actions.

    https://youtu.be/vCL8may1Hes
    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bar and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.
    I think it is fair to say that the tits on display were the ones enforcing the dress code.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,760

    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bra and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.

    This only works if you think the rules governing topless women should be the same as the rules governing topless men.



  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710

    It’s not exactly looking promising. Few seem to be persuaded by sunlit uplands of any type.

    People don't want to move forward and they don't want to move back either.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,612

    ydoethur said:

    Thirst.

    I had a choirmaster once who was always off down the boozer immediately after a church service.

    He said when challenged that Jesus advises you should have a thirst after righteousness.
    Sounds a little whisky if he'd got caught: he'd be wineing about the injustice of it all, and would require some fortification before starting his en-gin and heading home.
    It is surely time to squash these puns, and become a little more cordial. It could be the tonic to ginger ale of us up.
  • Options
    NB Michael Gove speculating about Brexit being reopened after March 2019 shows that Brexit is going to remain a topic of public debate for the indefinite future. It’s as if Leavers are determined to make it as easy as possible for Remainers to keep the discussion going.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Thirst.

    I had a choirmaster once who was always off down the boozer immediately after a church service.

    He said when challenged that Jesus advises you should have a thirst after righteousness.
    Sounds a little whisky if he'd got caught: he'd be wineing about the injustice of it all, and would require some fortification before starting his en-gin and heading home.
    It is surely time to squash these puns, and become a little more cordial. It could be the tonic to ginger ale of us up.
    Soda should be an end to humour on PB? I don't think that would be very ice.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,612

    brendan16 said:

    Were they making the same excuses for Serena in 2009 at the US open when she threatened to shove a ball down the throat of an Asian female lines official for daring to foot fault her? The poor lineswoman actually thought she had threatened to kill her. She was of course playing a woman at the time who had just returned to tennis from giving birth.

    Its far too easy to give powerful multi millionaire sports people a free pass. Her opponent last weekend was a woman of mixed African American and Japanese origin - the difference was she has no history of being a sore loser and disrespecting officials. And her deserved first Slam victory was totally overshadowed by her opponents actions.

    https://youtu.be/vCL8may1Hes
    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bar and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.
    She was wearing a sports bar? doesn't sound very comfortable.

    Though it does remind me of the dyslexic fellow who got in trouble when he walked into a bra.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    edited September 2018
    viewcode said:

    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bra and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.

    This only works if you think the rules governing topless women should be the same as the rules governing topless men.
    Hard to argue she showed anything untoward. She showed far less than the average swimmer, runner or heptahtlete, for example.
    http://www.twitter.com/doublefault28/status/1034489290447900672
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    I anxiously await all those pbers who have live-tweeted every aspect of the Labour anti-Semitism row giving us their considered views on the Conservatives making common cause with Fidesz. No doubt their silence over the last few days has been because they fainted with horror and have yet to be revived.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    brendan16 said:

    Were they making the same excuses for Serena in 2009 at the US open when she threatened to shove a ball down the throat of an Asian female lines official for daring to foot fault her? The poor lineswoman actually thought she had threatened to kill her. She was of course playing a woman at the time who had just returned to tennis from giving birth.

    Its far too easy to give powerful multi millionaire sports people a free pass. Her opponent last weekend was a woman of mixed African American and Japanese origin - the difference was she has no history of being a sore loser and disrespecting officials. And her deserved first Slam victory was totally overshadowed by her opponents actions.

    https://youtu.be/vCL8may1Hes
    I agree that the incident itself didn't reflect well on Serena, and the umpire was well within his rights to sanction her as he did. Plus, despite her playing the "sexism" card, the stats show that there were double as many "code violations" given to men as there were to women at this US Open.

    However, that's all separate to the debate about that cartoon in Australia, which I think did caricature her (especially facially) in a racist way.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    I anxiously await all those pbers who have live-tweeted every aspect of the Labour anti-Semitism row giving us their considered views on the Conservatives making common cause with Fidesz. No doubt their silence over the last few days has been because they fainted with horror and have yet to be revived.

    Have they said they're excused because both the Prime Ministers who faced Nazi Germany in World War II were Conservative MPs?

    Even that wouldn't be quite as lame as Corbyn's excuse for his racism.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710

    NB Michael Gove speculating about Brexit being reopened after March 2019 shows that Brexit is going to remain a topic of public debate for the indefinite future. It’s as if Leavers are determined to make it as easy as possible for Remainers to keep the discussion going.

    I presume Gove's agenda is to get over the line and the UK out of the EU and say, sorry, too late.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    FPT...
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: well, at least Meonaco means it wasn't the most tedious race of the year.

    Yes, we really needed some rain to make it fun.
    Though I suspect that wouldn’t have bothered Hamilton.
    It's interesting to reflect that Sebastian Vettel's early career was noted for his extraordinary skill in the rain, including an almost unbelievable maiden victory in a Go kart Toro Rosso.

    These days I wouldn't trust him with a Ford Fiesta in a drizzle.
    Don’t knock it - Jim Clarke raced a Ford Cortina the first year he was F1 champion.
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    Nigelb said:

    FPT...

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: well, at least Meonaco means it wasn't the most tedious race of the year.

    Yes, we really needed some rain to make it fun.
    Though I suspect that wouldn’t have bothered Hamilton.
    It's interesting to reflect that Sebastian Vettel's early career was noted for his extraordinary skill in the rain, including an almost unbelievable maiden victory in a Go kart Toro Rosso.

    These days I wouldn't trust him with a Ford Fiesta in a drizzle.
    Don’t knock it - Jim Clarke raced a Ford Cortina the first year he was F1 champion.
    Impressive, they handled like a bar of wet soap in the rain
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Nigelb said:

    FPT...

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: well, at least Meonaco means it wasn't the most tedious race of the year.

    Yes, we really needed some rain to make it fun.
    Though I suspect that wouldn’t have bothered Hamilton.
    It's interesting to reflect that Sebastian Vettel's early career was noted for his extraordinary skill in the rain, including an almost unbelievable maiden victory in a Go kart Toro Rosso.

    These days I wouldn't trust him with a Ford Fiesta in a drizzle.
    Don’t knock it - Jim Clarke raced a Ford Cortina the first year he was F1 champion.
    Really? I thought it was a Lotus 25!
  • Options

    I anxiously await all those pbers who have live-tweeted every aspect of the Labour anti-Semitism row giving us their considered views on the Conservatives making common cause with Fidesz. No doubt their silence over the last few days has been because they fainted with horror and have yet to be revived.

    It’s a message that seems designed to alienate people who just want it over with.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    RoyalBlue said:

    Perhaps this isn’t so bad for May. If she can get a deal that disappoints the Ultras but doesn’t lead to economic meltdown, a lot of people will be pleasantly surprised, thanks to rock-bottom expectations. The disappointed Ultras will keep voting Tory.

    Except archere10au, who will now vote for... errr...

    ...Oh wait, I forgot, he lives in Australia.

    (Says a man who lives in Los Angeles.)
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT...

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: well, at least Meonaco means it wasn't the most tedious race of the year.

    Yes, we really needed some rain to make it fun.
    Though I suspect that wouldn’t have bothered Hamilton.
    It's interesting to reflect that Sebastian Vettel's early career was noted for his extraordinary skill in the rain, including an almost unbelievable maiden victory in a Go kart Toro Rosso.

    These days I wouldn't trust him with a Ford Fiesta in a drizzle.
    Don’t knock it - Jim Clarke raced a Ford Cortina the first year he was F1 champion.
    Really? I thought it was a Lotus 25!
    You know how to take advantage of studied ambiguity.
    But I’m sure you know this...
    http://www.lotuscortinainfo.com/?page_id=2172
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    edited September 2018

    Nigelb said:

    FPT...

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: well, at least Meonaco means it wasn't the most tedious race of the year.

    Yes, we really needed some rain to make it fun.
    Though I suspect that wouldn’t have bothered Hamilton.
    It's interesting to reflect that Sebastian Vettel's early career was noted for his extraordinary skill in the rain, including an almost unbelievable maiden victory in a Go kart Toro Rosso.

    These days I wouldn't trust him with a Ford Fiesta in a drizzle.
    Don’t knock it - Jim Clarke raced a Ford Cortina the first year he was F1 champion.
    Impressive, they handled like a bar of wet soap in the rain
    It was ever so slightly modded.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Must be off again... housework to do.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    I think TSE is mistaken - May will be blamed if there is no deal, although I imagine there will be plenty of blame to go around. Conversely, I think May will get a lot of credit if she does pull out some kind of non disaster deal, the public think its going badly because nothing has been sorted.
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    The poll also has an important implication for the idea of a repeat 'people's vote': there's no answer which will provide much guidance to MPs.

    By 43% to 34% people would be unhappy if Parliament rejected the deal and insisted on a referendum about whether to go ahead. This idea gets less support than our regular tracker on whether people think there should be a referendum, suggesting that the process by which one was triggered would make a difference.
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    F1 drivers often have boring real life cars.

    Surgeons tend to cut fewer people in their off-work hours too.
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    More crumbs of comfort for Mrs May;

    From what you have seen or heard, do you support or oppose the approach that [Leader] is taking towards Brexit? (Net among 2017 vote)

    May: +5
    Corbyn: -16

    While a majority of all 3 main party supporters believe Mrs May 's replacement would not get a better deal, this view is most strongly held among Lab & Lib Dem

    Imagine Theresa May resigned and was replaced with a different Conservative leader, do you think... Replacement get better real/Not get better Deal (2017 Vote):

    Con: 27 / 56
    Lab; 18 / 58
    LibD: 7 / 72
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited September 2018
    rkrkrk said:

    I think TSE is mistaken - May will be blamed if there is no deal, although I imagine there will be plenty of blame to go around. Conversely, I think May will get a lot of credit if she does pull out some kind of non disaster deal, the public think its going badly because nothing has been sorted.

    I don't think most people (including Remain voters) really believe the stuff about food shortages, planes being grounded and all the rest of it. Whilst they overwhelmingly believe the Brexit negotiations are going badly, I'm not sure people think that means anything more than our leaders being embarrassed when they go over to these summits and negotiations; I don't think people accept at this point that any deal (or lack thereof) would tangibly affect anything in real life.

    Whether people's expectations are borne out by the reality of a "No Deal" Brexit is another matter - but I think it does mean that a second referendum is not going to get much public traction before Brexit happens, because I think at this point people would see it as just a whole lot of palaver over something which might be regrettable but doesn't, in the end, mean all that much.
  • Options
    How likely do you think it is that the British government and the European Union will agree a Brexit deal in time for Britain to leave the European Union in 2019?

    Net
    June: -25
    Sep: -40
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    Surveys should not offer a 'don't know' option to a question that is a matter of opinion not fact. If the question is 'what is the speed of light?' or 'what is the boiling point of water at sea level?' then fine, 'dunno' is a valid response. But for something like 'would a different PM get a better Brexit deal?' to reply that one does not know is meaningless since nobody knows. The correct neutral response is 'I have no opinion either way on that'. Therefore it would be much better if the polling industry replaced 'don't know' with 'no opinion'. Which begs the question, if such a change in wording were made would it lead to more or less people ticking that particular box? Or would it have very little or no effect? I don't know (obviously) but I do have an opinion. I think it would be the latter. I think it would have absolutely no effect whatsoever.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    edited September 2018

    How likely do you think it is that the British government and the European Union will agree a Brexit deal in time for Britain to leave the European Union in 2019?

    Net
    June: -25
    Sep: -40

    My predictions

    Agree to withdraw to "transition" by end 2019 : 80%. I think.it more likely we won't have left at all than we will still be in No Deal.

    Agree end state : 10% Either EU membership or full SM+CU+VAT+ECJ. Neither very likely at that point but Vassal State more likely longer term. Anything else takes longer.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,612
    FF43 said:

    NB Michael Gove speculating about Brexit being reopened after March 2019 shows that Brexit is going to remain a topic of public debate for the indefinite future. It’s as if Leavers are determined to make it as easy as possible for Remainers to keep the discussion going.

    I presume Gove's agenda is to get over the line and the UK out of the EU and say, sorry, too late.
    Yes, that is why Leavers are OK about Blind Brexit. It is still Brexit, and then becomes a case of arguing for a more definitive Brexit. The #peoplesvote will then transform to a pro EEA stance.

    Nobody gets their first choice, indeed it is an AV Brexit, where nobody gets their bottom choice either.

    May's advantage is that the only thing that needs a vote is the WA, not Chequers.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    viewcode said:

    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bra and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.

    This only works if you think the rules governing topless women should be the same as the rules governing topless men.



    Ummm: that's not really true. Sports bras are hardly revealing items. Indeed, if you were ever to watch a spin class, you'd find that many of the women just wear sports bras. (On their upper body, obviously.)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    NB Michael Gove speculating about Brexit being reopened after March 2019 shows that Brexit is going to remain a topic of public debate for the indefinite future. It’s as if Leavers are determined to make it as easy as possible for Remainers to keep the discussion going.

    Gove is both absolutely right, and slightly disingenuous. Whatever deal is done, assuming a deal is done, will not stand for time immemorial. It will change. The question is "when" will it be revisited and revised, and what will the magnitude of the changes?
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    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bra and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.

    This only works if you think the rules governing topless women should be the same as the rules governing topless men.



    Ummm: that's not really true. Sports bras are hardly revealing items. Indeed, if you were ever to watch a spin class, you'd find that many of the women just wear sports bras. (On their upper body, obviously.)
    I take it that you mean they wear other things on their lower bodies, not that they only wear sports bras and wear them on their upper bodies?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bra and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.

    This only works if you think the rules governing topless women should be the same as the rules governing topless men.



    Ummm: that's not really true. Sports bras are hardly revealing items. Indeed, if you were ever to watch a spin class, you'd find that many of the women just wear sports bras. (On their upper body, obviously.)
    I take it that you mean they wear other things on their lower bodies, not that they only wear sports bras and wear them on their upper bodies?
    LOL. I just reread my comment, and thought "which smartarse is going to hang me out to dry?"

    And it was you.

    Congratulations.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    I anxiously await all those pbers who have live-tweeted every aspect of the Labour anti-Semitism row giving us their considered views on the Conservatives making common cause with Fidesz. No doubt their silence over the last few days has been because they fainted with horror and have yet to be revived.

    Yawn. Already did that Alastair. In brief the decision of the Tories to back the Hungarian government was disappointing and inexplicable but the idea that it was some cunning plan to win friends and influence people by pissing off the people we are actually negotiating with is laughable, bordering on asinine.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bra and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.

    This only works if you think the rules governing topless women should be the same as the rules governing topless men.



    Ummm: that's not really true. Sports bras are hardly revealing items. Indeed, if you were ever to watch a spin class, you'd find that many of the women just wear sports bras. (On their upper body, obviously.)
    I take it that you mean they wear other things on their lower bodies, not that they only wear sports bras and wear them on their upper bodies?
    LOL. I just reread my comment, and thought "which smartarse is going to hang me out to dry?"

    And it was you.

    Congratulations.
    At least my arse is well covered if I can't call what I'm wearing 'smart' :smile:
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bra and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.

    This only works if you think the rules governing topless women should be the same as the rules governing topless men.
    Hard to argue she showed anything untoward. She showed far less than the average swimmer, runner or heptahtlete, for example.
    http://www.twitter.com/doublefault28/status/1034489290447900672
    I'm perplexed. Is there another reason to watch women's tennis?
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bra and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.

    This only works if you think the rules governing topless women should be the same as the rules governing topless men.
    Ummm: that's not really true. Sports bras are hardly revealing items. Indeed, if you were ever to watch a spin class, you'd find that many of the women just wear sports bras. (On their upper body, obviously.)
    Sports bras can be quite amazing things. Some of them look as though they were made by Eitri in the forges of Nidavellir.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    It looks like the only Brexit outcome most voters would be happy with is a FTA Deal and that an outcome with No Deal would be the most unpopular of all
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    edited September 2018
    REMAINERS - Know Your Limits!

    An ordinary dinner party, the sort of occasion we all enjoy. The LEAVERs are exchanging witty stories. And look at the REMAINERs; aren’t they pretty? Look at the way they laugh, they’re delightful. But now the conversation turns to more serious matters.

    LEAVER 1:
    “I wonder if the Government should stay out of the EU Customs Union”

    LEAVER 2:
    “I think it should.”

    LEAVER 1:
    “Good. Then we’re all agreed.”

    But oh dear, what’s this? One of the REMAINERs is about to embarrass us all…

    REMAINER:
    “I think the Government should stay in the Customs Union, so that the Pound can reach a level that would keep our exports competitive.”

    The REMAINER has foolishly attempted to join the conversation with a wild and dangerous opinion of his own! What half-baked drivel! See how the LEAVERS look at him with utter contempt!

    LEAVER 2:
    “Alastair, we’re going home!!”

    REMAINERS - KNOW YOUR LIMITS!

    Look at the effect of education on a LEAVER and a REMAINER’s mind. Education passes into the mind of a LEAVER. See how the information is evenly and tidily stored.

    Now see the same thing on a REMAINER. At first we see a similar result. But now look. Still at a reasonably low level of education his brain suddenly overloads. He can't take in complicated information. He becomes frantically and absurdly deranged.

    Look at these venomous harridans. They went to university. Hard to believe they are all under 25. Yes, over-education leads to ugliness, premature aging and beard growth. And ranting on online political betting fora.

    Now, let’s see the proper way.

    LEAVER 1:
    “Good. So we’re all agreed. We should stay out of the Customs Union.”

    REMAINER:
    “Oh, I don’t know anything about the Northern Ireland Backstop, I’m afraid, but I do love little kittens! They’re so soft, and furry.”

    LEAVER 2:
    “What a delightful thought, you dear, sweet, fragile little thing! I adore you, Alastair!”

    REMAINERS - KNOW YOUR LIMITS. In thought, be plain and simple, and let your natural sweetness shine through!


  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    edited September 2018
    Also went to a reception with Alistair Burt this afternoon who gave an interesting talk on his role as Foreign Office Minister and particularly about the Middle East and Syria where the civil war looks to be drawing to its conclusion.


    Shaun Bailey and Joy Morrissey were also pressing the flash as this is the final weekend before London Tories vote on their Mayoral candidate
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    HYUFD said:

    Shaun Bailey and Joy Morrissey were also pressing the flash as this is the final weekend before London Tories vote on their Mayoral candidate

    Is that another reference to Alizé Cornet or a typing error?
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    I think you're Russian to conclusions there!
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    The woman who was hard done by sexist rules in the US Open, was the lady who realised she had her top on the wrong way around and took it off to sort it out. She was wearing a sports bra and nothing unsuitable was shown. In comparison men are for ever taking their shirts off when they get sweaty, which is often commented on in a positive way.

    This only works if you think the rules governing topless women should be the same as the rules governing topless men.
    Ummm: that's not really true. Sports bras are hardly revealing items. Indeed, if you were ever to watch a spin class, you'd find that many of the women just wear sports bras. (On their upper body, obviously.)
    Sports bras can be quite amazing things. Some of them look as though they were made by Eitri in the forges of Nidavellir.
    Nice rack-et you got there :lol:
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    I think you're Russian to conclusions there!
    Undoubtedly me old China. But don't Ukraine your neck to keep up!
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    Russia could be a world superpower once again; it has so much going for it. Unfortunately the leadership are incapable of taking advantage of the benefits it has, and therefore resorts to trying to reduce everyone else down to their level.

    It has so much wasted potential.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    It looks like the only Brexit outcome most voters would be happy with is a FTA Deal and that an outcome with No Deal would be the most unpopular of all

    No deal is actually WTO Brexit with lots of side agreements, such as about respective citizen rights, driving licences, air travel and so on/
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    NB Michael Gove speculating about Brexit being reopened after March 2019 shows that Brexit is going to remain a topic of public debate for the indefinite future. It’s as if Leavers are determined to make it as easy as possible for Remainers to keep the discussion going.

    Gove is both absolutely right, and slightly disingenuous. Whatever deal is done, assuming a deal is done, will not stand for time immemorial. It will change. The question is "when" will it be revisited and revised, and what will the magnitude of the changes?
    I predict that the changes will be many and varied.
  • Options
    Danny565 said:

    brendan16 said:

    Were they making the same excuses for Serena in 2009 at the US open when she threatened to shove a ball down the throat of an Asian female lines official for daring to foot fault her? The poor lineswoman actually thought she had threatened to kill her. She was of course playing a woman at the time who had just returned to tennis from giving birth.

    Its far too easy to give powerful multi millionaire sports people a free pass. Her opponent last weekend was a woman of mixed African American and Japanese origin - the difference was she has no history of being a sore loser and disrespecting officials. And her deserved first Slam victory was totally overshadowed by her opponents actions.

    https://youtu.be/vCL8may1Hes
    I agree that the incident itself didn't reflect well on Serena, and the umpire was well within his rights to sanction her as he did. Plus, despite her playing the "sexism" card, the stats show that there were double as many "code violations" given to men as there were to women at this US Open.

    However, that's all separate to the debate about that cartoon in Australia, which I think did caricature her (especially facially) in a racist way.

    Caricature is what cartoonists do.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    edited September 2018

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    Russia could be a world superpower once again; it has so much going for it. Unfortunately the leadership are incapable of taking advantage of the benefits it has, and therefore resorts to trying to reduce everyone else down to their level.

    It has so much wasted potential.
    You would have said based on a number of factors that the world superpowers of the next century should be Russia, China, the US, Brazil and possibly Canada if it wants it. Those are the ones with the size, the population and the natural resources to make a go of it. Australia has the size and resources, not the population; India the size and population but not the resources. The European nations have neither the size nor the resources.

    Although Russia is currently in the doldrums I wouldn't write it off yet. It went from being weaker than Poland under Lenin to being one of the world's two superpowers and arguably briefly the most technologically advanced of the two in a mere forty years. It might do it again.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    I think you're Russian to conclusions there!
    Undoubtedly me old China. But don't Ukraine your neck to keep up!
    The night is young, we can't Finnish this early :)
  • Options
    Ok TSE. We get it. It’s abundantly clear from your many well thought through posts. You are a tory wet and hate Boris.

    However. One important calculation you must make if you are going to risk your own money on The betting markets is:

    Many lifelong Tory voters, such as myself, will NEVER vote for a government that gave us chequers.
    There is zero possibility that I will care much about Project Korbyn Fear. So when that comes, I will remain unmoved. And unwilling to add my vote to the tory tally.

    Bear in mind, that vote and the tens of thousands of similar ones, gave old Thesa Greyjoyess the benfit of the doubt last time. And even with our support, she failed.

    She can kiss all those kippers goodbye too. 5-15% of her borrowed vote won’t turn up next time.
    And another similar amount of her own core won’t either.

    Saying Boris and give are so inept they cannot organise an election and will gift if to Korbyn might be true.
    But it is a certainty that Tess or anyone of her Remainer wing taking over instead, will lose.

    And the Korbyn coalition of chaos and free stuff will take over.

    And I’m fine with that. Because we probably have to relearn the historical lessons of both communism and Appeasement before we can move on.

    And Jez will probably take over just as the next, overdue, recession hits. So a buckets of cash, don’t worry about debt, government, might be quite handy to have around.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    I think you're Russian to conclusions there!
    Undoubtedly me old China. But don't Ukraine your neck to keep up!
    The night is young, we can't Finnish this early :)
    I agree, there is Norway we can give up.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    Russia could be a world superpower once again; it has so much going for it. Unfortunately the leadership are incapable of taking advantage of the benefits it has, and therefore resorts to trying to reduce everyone else down to their level.

    It has so much wasted potential.
    You would have said based on a number of factors that the world superpowers of the next century should be Russia, China, the US, Brazil and possibly Canada if it wants it. Those are the ones with the size, the population and the natural resources to make a go of it. Australia has the size and resources, not the population; India the size and population but not the resources. The European nations have neither the size nor the resources.

    Although Russia is currently in the doldrums I wouldn't write it off yet. It went from being weaker than Poland under Lenin to being one of the world's two superpowers and arguably briefly the most technologically advanced of the two in a mere forty years. It might do it again.
    Canada has a population about half that of the UK, most of Russia is in Europe
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    edited September 2018
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Shaun Bailey and Joy Morrissey were also pressing the flash as this is the final weekend before London Tories vote on their Mayoral candidate

    Is that another reference to Alizé Cornet or a typing error?
    A reference to the Tory London Mayoral primary ballot not the US Open Tennis
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995

    HYUFD said:

    It looks like the only Brexit outcome most voters would be happy with is a FTA Deal and that an outcome with No Deal would be the most unpopular of all

    No deal is actually WTO Brexit with lots of side agreements, such as about respective citizen rights, driving licences, air travel and so on/
    Even that takes time to complete
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    Russia could be a world superpower once again; it has so much going for it. Unfortunately the leadership are incapable of taking advantage of the benefits it has, and therefore resorts to trying to reduce everyone else down to their level.

    It has so much wasted potential.
    You would have said based on a number of factors that the world superpowers of the next century should be Russia, China, the US, Brazil and possibly Canada if it wants it. Those are the ones with the size, the population and the natural resources to make a go of it. Australia has the size and resources, not the population; India the size and population but not the resources. The European nations have neither the size nor the resources.

    Although Russia is currently in the doldrums I wouldn't write it off yet. It went from being weaker than Poland under Lenin to being one of the world's two superpowers and arguably briefly the most technologically advanced of the two in a mere forty years. It might do it again.
    Canada has a population about half that of the UK, most of Russia is in Europe
    The Soviet Union regarded America as a European power. Do you?

    (PS 'Russia' is entirely in Europe - if your remark is about the Russian Federation, as mine was using lazy shorthand, then it's clearly wrong.)

    Canada is taking very active steps to increase its population through immigration at the moment, and it has the space for them as well.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    Please don't be mean about Putin. According to @hunchman, he is a great man, while the West is run by ignorant nonentities.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    Please don't be mean about Putin. According to @hunchman, he is a great man, while the West is run by ignorant nonentities.
    Well, it's difficult to argue that the West isn't being run by ignorant nonentities.

    That said, Putin makes even Trump look almost sane.

    On the subject of his being a great man, does anyone else suspect the root of the problem is he has a small one?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    HYUFD said:

    It looks like the only Brexit outcome most voters would be happy with is a FTA Deal and that an outcome with No Deal would be the most unpopular of all

    No deal is actually WTO Brexit with lots of side agreements, such as about respective citizen rights, driving licences, air travel and so on/
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the biggest hassle for most businesses is going to be dropping out of the EU rules on avoiding double taxation. This means that dividends from subsidiaries in EU states will now be subject to withholding tax. And the kicker for this one, is that - because corporate tax remains a national prerogative - we will need 27 sets of negotiations. As Britain is (currently) the place where multinationals set up their European headquarters (and parent companies), this is a *really* big issue.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    Ok TSE. We get it. It’s abundantly clear from your many well thought through posts. You are a tory wet and hate Boris.

    However. One important calculation you must make if you are going to risk your own money on The betting markets is:

    Many lifelong Tory voters, such as myself, will NEVER vote for a government that gave us chequers.
    There is zero possibility that I will care much about Project Korbyn Fear. So when that comes, I will remain unmoved. And unwilling to add my vote to the tory tally.

    Bear in mind, that vote and the tens of thousands of similar ones, gave old Thesa Greyjoyess the benfit of the doubt last time. And even with our support, she failed.

    She can kiss all those kippers goodbye too. 5-15% of her borrowed vote won’t turn up next time.
    And another similar amount of her own core won’t either.

    Saying Boris and give are so inept they cannot organise an election and will gift if to Korbyn might be true.
    But it is a certainty that Tess or anyone of her Remainer wing taking over instead, will lose.

    And the Korbyn coalition of chaos and free stuff will take over.

    And I’m fine with that. Because we probably have to relearn the historical lessons of both communism and Appeasement before we can move on.

    And Jez will probably take over just as the next, overdue, recession hits. So a buckets of cash, don’t worry about debt, government, might be quite handy to have around.

    So, what you're saying is tht rather than we go through a renegotiation of Chequers under Gove (or Kwarteng or Raab or whoever follows May), that we should have a crash out Brexit followed by Corbyn, because that would be better for the people of the United Kingdom?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    Russia could be a world superpower once again; it has so much going for it. Unfortunately the leadership are incapable of taking advantage of the benefits it has, and therefore resorts to trying to reduce everyone else down to their level.

    It has so much wasted potential.
    You would have said based on a number of factors that the world superpowers of the next century should be Russia, China, the US, Brazil and possibly Canada if it wants it. Those are the ones with the size, the population and the natural resources to make a go of it. Australia has the size and resources, not the population; India the size and population but not the resources. The European nations have neither the size nor the resources.

    Although Russia is currently in the doldrums I wouldn't write it off yet. It went from being weaker than Poland under Lenin to being one of the world's two superpowers and arguably briefly the most technologically advanced of the two in a mere forty years. It might do it again.
    Canada has a population about half that of the UK, most of Russia is in Europe
    Canada is much closer to Australia in terms of population than any of the other countries.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    edited September 2018

    Ok TSE. We get it. It’s abundantly clear from your many well thought through posts. You are a tory wet and hate Boris.

    However. One important calculation you must make if you are going to risk your own money on The betting markets is:

    Many lifelong Tory voters, such as myself, will NEVER vote for a government that gave us chequers.
    There is zero possibility that I will care much about Project Korbyn Fear. So when that comes, I will remain unmoved. And unwilling to add my vote to the tory tally.

    Bear in mind, that vote and the tens of thousands of similar ones, gave old Thesa Greyjoyess the benfit of the doubt last time. And even with our support, she failed.

    She can kiss all those kippers goodbye too. 5-15% of her borrowed vote won’t turn up next time.
    And another similar amount of her own core won’t either.

    Saying Boris and give are so inept they cannot organise an election and will gift if to Korbyn might be true.
    But it is a certainty that Tess or anyone of her Remainer wing taking over instead, will lose.

    And the Korbyn coalition of chaos and free stuff will take over.

    And I’m fine with that. Because we probably have to relearn the historical lessons of both communism and Appeasement before we can move on.

    And Jez will probably take over just as the next, overdue, recession hits. So a buckets of cash, don’t worry about debt, government, might be quite handy to have around.

    We don't need your stinking vote.

    I'd remind you a Tory wet won a majority whilst UKIP polled 13% in a general election.

    He was the only Tory to win a majority in the last quarter of a century.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    Russia could be a world superpower once again; it has so much going for it. Unfortunately the leadership are incapable of taking advantage of the benefits it has, and therefore resorts to trying to reduce everyone else down to their level.

    It has so much wasted potential.
    You would have said based on a number of factors that the world superpowers of the next century should be Russia, China, the US, Brazil and possibly Canada if it wants it. Those are the ones with the size, the population and the natural resources to make a go of it. Australia has the size and resources, not the population; India the size and population but not the resources. The European nations have neither the size nor the resources.

    Although Russia is currently in the doldrums I wouldn't write it off yet. It went from being weaker than Poland under Lenin to being one of the world's two superpowers and arguably briefly the most technologically advanced of the two in a mere forty years. It might do it again.
    Canada has a population about half that of the UK, most of Russia is in Europe
    The Soviet Union regarded America as a European power. Do you?

    (PS 'Russia' is entirely in Europe - if your remark is about the Russian Federation, as mine was using lazy shorthand, then it's clearly wrong.)

    Canada is taking very active steps to increase its population through immigration at the moment, and it has the space for them as well.
    The USA is obviously in North America, whatever the origins of a majority of its inhabitants or the Soviets thought.

    Most of Canada's tundra is not very inhabitable and unless it has an open border policy for the next decade which even Trudeau is not proposing it is not going to double its population anytime soon
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    Russia could be a world superpower once again; it has so much going for it. Unfortunately the leadership are incapable of taking advantage of the benefits it has, and therefore resorts to trying to reduce everyone else down to their level.

    It has so much wasted potential.
    You would have said based on a number of factors that the world superpowers of the next century should be Russia, China, the US, Brazil and possibly Canada if it wants it. Those are the ones with the size, the population and the natural resources to make a go of it. Australia has the size and resources, not the population; India the size and population but not the resources. The European nations have neither the size nor the resources.

    Although Russia is currently in the doldrums I wouldn't write it off yet. It went from being weaker than Poland under Lenin to being one of the world's two superpowers and arguably briefly the most technologically advanced of the two in a mere forty years. It might do it again.
    Canada has a population about half that of the UK, most of Russia is in Europe
    Canada is much closer to Australia in terms of population than any of the other countries.
    Indeed, Canada and Australia are both very sparsely inhabited, certainly compared to the USA or Europe
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    The morning thread is about Julius Caesar.

    It is the final thread before Mike's holiday ends.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    Jeffrey Archer 'I'd vote for Jeremy Corbyn if I lived in the north'

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/jeffrey-archer-id-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-in-the-north-8nr8xzhts
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It looks like the only Brexit outcome most voters would be happy with is a FTA Deal and that an outcome with No Deal would be the most unpopular of all

    No deal is actually WTO Brexit with lots of side agreements, such as about respective citizen rights, driving licences, air travel and so on/
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the biggest hassle for most businesses is going to be dropping out of the EU rules on avoiding double taxation. This means that dividends from subsidiaries in EU states will now be subject to withholding tax. And the kicker for this one, is that - because corporate tax remains a national prerogative - we will need 27 sets of negotiations. As Britain is (currently) the place where multinationals set up their European headquarters (and parent companies), this is a *really* big issue.
    Just part of the extra hassle. Dominic Raab has been laying out the massive extra red tape in the past week or so that he calls "No Deal" planning. The interesting thing is that a lot of it still applies in Deal scenarios.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    rcs1000 said:

    NB Michael Gove speculating about Brexit being reopened after March 2019 shows that Brexit is going to remain a topic of public debate for the indefinite future. It’s as if Leavers are determined to make it as easy as possible for Remainers to keep the discussion going.

    Gove is both absolutely right, and slightly disingenuous. Whatever deal is done, assuming a deal is done, will not stand for time immemorial. It will change. The question is "when" will it be revisited and revised, and what will the magnitude of the changes?
    There is no deal on the table except a two year extension of EU terms.
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    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Another Russian Stag Do. Switzerland seems particularly popular.
    It's weird. The KGB generally had a reputation at being rather good at this stuff. What on earth has happened?
    The Russian President is totally corrupt and has Putin all his mates instead of people who are vaguely competent.

    I'll get my coat...

    More seriously, I think they're doing a lot of this for show. They are no longer one of the world's top powers, but rather one of a half dozen in the second rank along with India, France, Pakistan, us, Brazil etc. So I think they're trying to put in a show to say they're still big and dangerous and important.

    It would be pathetic if it weren't so serious.
    I think you're Russian to conclusions there!
    Undoubtedly me old China. But don't Ukraine your neck to keep up!
    The night is young, we can't Finnish this early :)
    I agree, there is Norway we can give up.
    That's a nice way to Sweden up a sour relationship
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    “We don't need your stinking vote.

    I'd remind you a Tory wet won a majority whilst UKIP polled 13% in a general election.”

    Well that’s good news. Because you won’t get it.
    And if you read what I said, you’d realise, your WE Is me and you. I’m not now, and never have been a kipper. But have always been, since 1987,a tory. And campaigned for Useless last time out.

    So, I shall take my “stinking blue vote” that you do not need, and it will remain unused.
    Along with thousands and thousands of other tory votes.

    You can disbelieve all you like. But wilful ignorance didn’t do Clegg much good when his party effectively ceased to exist after he carried out his own ‘great betrayal.’


This discussion has been closed.