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2pm update: here are the MPs who have admitted sending letters to Graham Brady pic.twitter.com/go6jDLvB3s

Read the full story here

prh47bridge

First. Or 67th if the ERG are counting.

GIN1138

Can this really be the same party that eviscerated Thatch and IDS?

MarqueeMark

Turd.

Anazina

I see Zeffman has helpfully added a running braincell tally along the left hand side of his table.

TheWhiteRabbit

"A Labour MP’s former head of communications felt “morally and legally” obliged to come forward after reading that the politician had tried to avoid a speeding offence on the night she visited him, a court heard.

Dr Christian DeFeo, who also managed campaigns for Onasanya, said he was compelled to contact police this week to tell them she had driven alone to his home near Thornley on the evening her car was recorded travelling at 41mph in a 30mph zone."

Anazina

prh47bridge said:

First. Or 67th if the ERG are counting.

Bravo on using the utterly tiresome first meme for comic effect

Beverley_C

48th!!!

RobD

Only 21?

Beverley_C

GIN1138 said:

Can this really be the same party that eviscerated Thatch and IDS?

No. It is a pale shadow of that party and filled with spineless narcissists with over-active imaginations and being led by a woman with a tin ear...

Floater

TheWhiteRabbit said:

"A Labour MP’s former head of communications felt “morally and legally” obliged to come forward after reading that the politician had tried to avoid a speeding offence on the night she visited him, a court heard.

Dr Christian DeFeo, who also managed campaigns for Onasanya, said he was compelled to contact police this week to tell them she had driven alone to his home near Thornley on the evening her car was recorded travelling at 41mph in a 30mph zone."

Bravo to him

Floater

MarqueeMark said:

Turd.

Is that the new name for the Conservative party?

tlg86

Floater said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

"A Labour MP’s former head of communications felt “morally and legally” obliged to come forward after reading that the politician had tried to avoid a speeding offence on the night she visited him, a court heard.

Dr Christian DeFeo, who also managed campaigns for Onasanya, said he was compelled to contact police this week to tell them she had driven alone to his home near Thornley on the evening her car was recorded travelling at 41mph in a 30mph zone."

Bravo to him

I had wondered why she would have been driving along that road.

felix

Unless I misheard, Steve Baker just said on Sky the Brexiteers would "draw lots" to decide who their leadership candidate is. Draw lots. To determine the Prime Minister. This is lunacy. Dan Hodges

Camelot 4PM? Lucky numbers this week 4 and 8

Pulpstar

Going about as well as that coup against Erdogan did..

GIN1138

Slackbladder said:

(((Dan Hodges)))
‏Verified account @DPJHodges
2m2 minutes ago

Unless I misheard, Steve Baker just said on Sky the Brexiteers would "draw lots" to decide who their leadership candidate is. Draw lots. To determine the Prime Minister. This is lunacy.


What the actual f**king f**k ????

Just think we could be mere days away from Mad Nad becoming Prime Minister!

OblitusSumMe

Richard_Nabavi said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

The ERGers do sound quite remarkably rattled. Why the panic, if The Deal is certain to be voted down anyway, as they claim?

I think it's because they are worried about what May might offer (referendum) to win support from Labour (on a second vote if necessary).

They don't think she will simply say, "no deal it is then," in the event that she loses the first vote.

I don't understand that. Why not wait until after the vote and bung in the letters if she then goes down a route they don't like? By striking now, they risk making her stronger in the short term and more able to withstand pressure for a whole year.

The only rational explanation for their behaviour is that they think the deal might pass in the Commons. (Well, I say 'rational', which might be putting it a bit strongly, but you know what I mean.)

Yes, I agree with your point on timing.

It could simply be a mistake! Or they might fear support for the deal attaining an unstoppable momentum - the disruption of a leadership challenge drowns out all discussion of the deal. Perhaps that is why it is taking them time to put the letters in, to string out the drama and stop the deal from being considered calmly and on its merits.

Also, May dislikes losing votes more than the average PM (and none like it) so perhaps if she didn't have this to worry about she would be able to make offers to Labour to build a coalition of support for the deal. It's not like the deal is all that far from Labour policy.

AlastairMeeks

Not so much coup as coup-coup.

SouthamObserver

Please tell me this is true. Please ...

I have read that Andrea Leadsom, Chris Grayling, Liam Fox and Penny Mordaunt are going to form a group inside Cabinet to rewrite the Brexit agreement.

Has anyone else seen this?

What more is there to say?

That is genuinely hilarious.

Pulpstar

TheWhiteRabbit said:

"A Labour MP’s former head of communications felt “morally and legally” obliged to come forward after reading that the politician had tried to avoid a speeding offence on the night she visited him, a court heard.

Dr Christian DeFeo, who also managed campaigns for Onasanya, said he was compelled to contact police this week to tell them she had driven alone to his home near Thornley on the evening her car was recorded travelling at 41mph in a 30mph zone."

Might Peterborough be an abstention for the big vote ?

Beverley_C

FPT:

Alanbrooke said:

Beverley_C said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

The ERGers do sound quite remarkably rattled. Why the panic, if The Deal is certain to be voted down anyway, as they claim?

If it gets voted down without them in control then who needs the ERG? They need to look like they are in charge. The problem is, as Mike has pointed out, that if they fail, then they comprehensively prove that they are nothing more than a bunch of fantasists with delusions of grandeur.

theyre french ?

The French are looking really good compared to this shower. Maybe the ERG should order up cheese and surrender ....

DavidL

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?pc=SL16&q=in+the+game+of+thrones+you+either&ru=/search?FORM=SLBRDF&pc=SL16&q=in%20the%20game%20of%20thrones%20you%20either&view=detail&mmscn=vwrc&mid=C9EFEC352284277B8B44C9EFEC352284277B8B44&FORM=WRVORC

Its going to be deselection time after March.

kinabalu

Just run my eye down the 21. That is one motley crew. It surely boosts TM no end if she has this bunch of bananas wanting rid of her.

Pulpstar

SouthamObserver said:

Please tell me this is true. Please ...

I have read that Andrea Leadsom, Chris Grayling, Liam Fox and Penny Mordaunt are going to form a group inside Cabinet to rewrite the Brexit agreement.

Has anyone else seen this?

What more is there to say?

That is genuinely hilarious.

May (And Barnier) should indulge their little game if this is true - just send Mr Werrity off to Brussels with his "rewritten" document so Barnier can say 'Non' in person to him. Then they might realise !

David_Evershed

AlastairMeeks said:

Not so much coup as coup-coup.

It's not a coup. It's using the Conservative party official procedures as JRM has said.

Coup - a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

Gallowgate

David_Evershed said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Not so much coup as coup-coup.

It's not a coup. It's using the Conservative party official procedures as JRM has said.

Well this not-a-coup is shambolic.

DavidL

SouthamObserver said:

Please tell me this is true. Please ...

I have read that Andrea Leadsom, Chris Grayling, Liam Fox and Penny Mordaunt are going to form a group inside Cabinet to rewrite the Brexit agreement.

Has anyone else seen this?

What more is there to say?

That is genuinely hilarious.

I don't know why you are not taking this more seriously. They have prepared thoroughly for this: https://www.partyrama.co.uk/crayons-in-a-box-pack-of-4/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA All&utm_term=1101602799545&utm_content=Ad group #1&gclid=CJH14dGQ2d4CFUtXGwodAEcEXA&gclsrc=ds#fo_c=488&fo_k=e2a943dbee1fed502f6653f2211515e8&fo_s=binggb

SouthamObserver

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

David_Evershed

felix said:

Unless I misheard, Steve Baker just said on Sky the Brexiteers would "draw lots" to decide who their leadership candidate is. Draw lots. To determine the Prime Minister. This is lunacy. Dan Hodges

Camelot 4PM? Lucky numbers this week 4 and 8

Baker said there needs to be a single Brexit candidate to challenge for leadership. So they should go into a room and decide who it should be - by whatever method.

Pulpstar

OblitusSumMe said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

The ERGers do sound quite remarkably rattled. Why the panic, if The Deal is certain to be voted down anyway, as they claim?

I think it's because they are worried about what May might offer (referendum) to win support from Labour (on a second vote if necessary).

They don't think she will simply say, "no deal it is then," in the event that she loses the first vote.

I don't understand that. Why not wait until after the vote and bung in the letters if she then goes down a route they don't like? By striking now, they risk making her stronger in the short term and more able to withstand pressure for a whole year.

The only rational explanation for their behaviour is that they think the deal might pass in the Commons. (Well, I say 'rational', which might be putting it a bit strongly, but you know what I mean.)

Yes, I agree with your point on timing.

It could simply be a mistake! Or they might fear support for the deal attaining an unstoppable momentum - the disruption of a leadership challenge drowns out all discussion of the deal. Perhaps that is why it is taking them time to put the letters in, to string out the drama and stop the deal from being considered calmly and on its merits.

Also, May dislikes losing votes more than the average PM (and none like it) so perhaps if she didn't have this to worry about she would be able to make offers to Labour to build a coalition of support for the deal. It's not like the deal is all that far from Labour policy.

I expect Corbyn quite likes the deal actually. Just he prefers being PM more.

stodge

FPT

stodge said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I don't understand that. Why not wait until after the vote and bung in the letters if she then goes down a route they don't like? By striking now, they risk making her stronger in the short term and more able to withstand pressure for a whole year.

The only rational explanation for their behaviour is that they think the deal might pass in the Commons. (Well, I say 'rational', which might be putting it a bit strongly, but you know what I mean.)

I have no evidence for this but my assumption is their assumption is they haven't got enough votes to defeat May but enough to wound.

Nick P asked the question earlier and now I'll ask it - how much of a win does May need? I'd argue that if at least 120 MPs don't vote for her she has to go. I know the rules say 160 supporting is enough but this is politics not a rule book.

Major got 218 votes in 1995 and apparently would have quit had he got less than 214. Thatcher failed the first ballot on the Berkeley rules in 1990 but had it been a straight fight who could have taken her seriously with 170 MPs not supporting her?

Perhaps, as HYUFD has opined and like Corbyn she will play absolutely to the rule book and she has the hide of a rhinoceros (I doubt the latter incidentally) and f she wins 160-158 she will claim victory and carry on but no one will be fooled.

RobD

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?

SouthamObserver

https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1063440157855092738?s=21

rcs1000

GIN1138 said:

Slackbladder said:

(((Dan Hodges)))
‏Verified account @DPJHodges
2m2 minutes ago

Unless I misheard, Steve Baker just said on Sky the Brexiteers would "draw lots" to decide who their leadership candidate is. Draw lots. To determine the Prime Minister. This is lunacy.


What the actual f**king f**k ????

Just think we could be mere days away from Mad Nad becoming Prime Minister!

Nadine was very kind to me, and offered to look after my two year old son while my five year daughter used the bathroom. So, I will always have a soft spot for her.

John_M

Not so much a coup as a hiccoup.

Beverley_C

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

DavidL

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

Are you not entertained, are you not entertained? As Jon Stewart once asked after the magnificent Dope Diamond sequence.

rcs1000

Mrs May should announce a referendum in Northern Ireland on that part of her plan. I suspect that it would pass by a large margin.

FrancisUrquhart

rcs1000 said:

GIN1138 said:

Slackbladder said:

(((Dan Hodges)))
‏Verified account @DPJHodges
2m2 minutes ago

Unless I misheard, Steve Baker just said on Sky the Brexiteers would "draw lots" to decide who their leadership candidate is. Draw lots. To determine the Prime Minister. This is lunacy.


What the actual f**king f**k ????

Just think we could be mere days away from Mad Nad becoming Prime Minister!

Nadine was very kind to me, and offered to look after my two year old son while my five year daughter used the bathroom. So, I will always have a soft spot for her.

Good job it wasn't David Cameron you asked.

williamglenn

rcs1000 said:

Mrs May should announce a referendum in Northern Ireland on that part of her plan. I suspect that it would pass by a large margin.

What would the other option in the referendum be?

DavidL

OblitusSumMe said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

The ERGers do sound quite remarkably rattled. Why the panic, if The Deal is certain to be voted down anyway, as they claim?

I think it's because they are worried about what May might offer (referendum) to win support from Labour (on a second vote if necessary).

They don't think she will simply say, "no deal it is then," in the event that she loses the first vote.

I don't understand that. Why not wait until after the vote and bung in the letters if she then goes down a route they don't like? By striking now, they risk making her stronger in the short term and more able to withstand pressure for a whole year.

The only rational explanation for their behaviour is that they think the deal might pass in the Commons. (Well, I say 'rational', which might be putting it a bit strongly, but you know what I mean.)

Yes, I agree with your point on timing.

It could simply be a mistake! Or they might fear support for the deal attaining an unstoppable momentum - the disruption of a leadership challenge drowns out all discussion of the deal. Perhaps that is why it is taking them time to put the letters in, to string out the drama and stop the deal from being considered calmly and on its merits.

Also, May dislikes losing votes more than the average PM (and none like it) so perhaps if she didn't have this to worry about she would be able to make offers to Labour to build a coalition of support for the deal. It's not like the deal is all that far from Labour policy.

I honestly think they thought she was a gonner yesterday and wanted to claim the credit. But she is tougher than they thought.

rcs1000

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

The meeting is "next week", because we're not under any time pressures here.

David_Evershed

RobD said:

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?

Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.

MarqueeMark

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

May: in Downing Street, but not in power....

felix

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

I'd guess that May suggested this as something to keep them busy.

Philip_Thompson

GIN1138 said:

Can this really be the same party that eviscerated Thatch and IDS?

We forget but it took a year between stalking horse challenge and ultimately toppling Thatcher. If it takes a couple of weeks here that will still be expedited compared to that.

rcs1000

David_Evershed said:

RobD said:

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?

Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.

And it reflects poorly on him that he did not resign earlier. If you are the Brexit secretary, and you are being cut out of the loop, you resign to fight your case.

GIN1138

rcs1000 said:

GIN1138 said:

Slackbladder said:

(((Dan Hodges)))
‏Verified account @DPJHodges
2m2 minutes ago

Unless I misheard, Steve Baker just said on Sky the Brexiteers would "draw lots" to decide who their leadership candidate is. Draw lots. To determine the Prime Minister. This is lunacy.


What the actual f**king f**k ????

Just think we could be mere days away from Mad Nad becoming Prime Minister!

Nadine was very kind to me, and offered to look after my two year old son while my five year daughter used the bathroom. So, I will always have a soft spot for her.

Would having a "soft spot" extend to wanting her to become Prime Minister though?

matt

Research of any sort doesn’t seem to be the ERGs strong point.

Philip_Thompson

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

Mrs May should announce a referendum in Northern Ireland on that part of her plan. I suspect that it would pass by a large margin.

What would the other option in the referendum be?

No deal.

David_Evershed

Beverley_C said:

48th!!!

We are the Whips and we know where you live. Kind regards.

Pulpstar

rcs1000 said:

Mrs May should announce a referendum in Northern Ireland on that part of her plan. I suspect that it would pass by a large margin.

Unification of Ireland is the neatest method to solving a future relationship. It'd certainly let the DUP know they've overplayed their hand.

rcs1000

FrancisUrquhart said:

rcs1000 said:

GIN1138 said:

Slackbladder said:

(((Dan Hodges)))
‏Verified account @DPJHodges
2m2 minutes ago

Unless I misheard, Steve Baker just said on Sky the Brexiteers would "draw lots" to decide who their leadership candidate is. Draw lots. To determine the Prime Minister. This is lunacy.


What the actual f**king f**k ????

Just think we could be mere days away from Mad Nad becoming Prime Minister!

Nadine was very kind to me, and offered to look after my two year old son while my five year daughter used the bathroom. So, I will always have a soft spot for her.

Good job it wasn't David Cameron you asked.

She'd had a few glasses of wine, so I didn't take her up on the offer.

Alistair

rcs1000 said:

Mrs May should announce a referendum in Northern Ireland on that part of her plan. I suspect that it would pass by a large margin.

That's genius.

SouthamObserver

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

JohnO

John_M said:

Not so much a coup as a hiccoup.

Chicken coop?

Morris_Dancer

Mr. D, quite agree.

OblitusSumMe

Pulpstar said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

The ERGers do sound quite remarkably rattled. Why the panic, if The Deal is certain to be voted down anyway, as they claim?

I think it's because they are worried about what May might offer (referendum) to win support from Labour (on a second vote if necessary).

They don't think she will simply say, "no deal it is then," in the event that she loses the first vote.

I don't understand that. Why not wait until after the vote and bung in the letters if she then goes down a route they don't like? By striking now, they risk making her stronger in the short term and more able to withstand pressure for a whole year.

The only rational explanation for their behaviour is that they think the deal might pass in the Commons. (Well, I say 'rational', which might be putting it a bit strongly, but you know what I mean.)

Yes, I agree with your point on timing.

It could simply be a mistake! Or they might fear support for the deal attaining an unstoppable momentum - the disruption of a leadership challenge drowns out all discussion of the deal. Perhaps that is why it is taking them time to put the letters in, to string out the drama and stop the deal from being considered calmly and on its merits.

Also, May dislikes losing votes more than the average PM (and none like it) so perhaps if she didn't have this to worry about she would be able to make offers to Labour to build a coalition of support for the deal. It's not like the deal is all that far from Labour policy.

I expect Corbyn quite likes the deal actually. Just he prefers being PM more.

Yes. Which is why you'd expect May to lose the first vote on the deal, which brings us back to Richard's question on timing for the ERG coup.

If we go back to expectations before the deal was announced, Richard outlined the scenario where positive momentum for the deal made it politically difficult for Labour to vote against. The actions of the ERG have prevented any such positive momentum from being created, making it easy for Labour to vote against.

So Richard is right. The ERG.fear that if they don't strike now the deal could pass the Commons. Their objective appears to be to prevent it going to a vote.

Re-opening negotiations is a red herring to waste time and take us closer to no deal.

David_Evershed

Will anyone want to be Brexit Sec or Work and Pensions Sec under May?

Slackbladder

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

hear hear....

FrancisUrquhart

David_Evershed said:

Will anyone want to be Brexit Sec or Work and Pensions Sec under May?

I thought Olly Robbins already had the Brexit Sec job?

Richard_Nabavi

RobD said:

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?

To be fair, although there is virtually no wriggle room on the Withdrawal Agreement, there's plenty to discuss on the future relationship, where the document is currently only the broadest of broad outlines. Plus it's actually more important that the Withdrawal Agreement, which relates only to the fairly short-term.

TheWhiteRabbit

David_Evershed said:

Will anyone want to be Brexit Sec or Work and Pensions Sec under May?

I would say the favourite to be Brexit Sec is currently Minister for the Civil Service

kle4

SouthamObserver said:

https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1063440157855092738?s=21

I don't see what's particularly problematic about that for her. It's not good, clearly, but her problem is she doesn't have the votes for her deal, and if that bunch cannot satisfy themselves, or the EU won't accept their changes, she still doesn't have votes for her deal.

SouthamObserver

If you are a member of the ERG you should not be permitted to operate heavy machinery, be in any position involving the supervision of children or animals, or be allowed to drive.

Slackbladder

felix said:

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

I'd guess that May suggested this as something to keep them busy.

OR them to look it into it, and then come back and say TINA. If they produce that, then that also stengthens her hand.

kle4

David_Evershed said:

RobD said:

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?

Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.

And he didn't notice until 1.5 years had elapsed?

Pulpstar

Alistair said:

rcs1000 said:

Mrs May should announce a referendum in Northern Ireland on that part of her plan. I suspect that it would pass by a large margin.

That's genius.

It'd be a good fireworks night in the fountain were that ever to occur.

JohnO

TheWhiteRabbit said:

David_Evershed said:

Will anyone want to be Brexit Sec or Work and Pensions Sec under May?

I would say the favourite to be Brexit Sec is currently Minister for the Civil Service

Lidders? Well, he was Europe Minster for the entire 2010-15 Parliament.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/Dannythefink/status/1063439749833269251

John_M

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

Mrs May should announce a referendum in Northern Ireland on that part of her plan. I suspect that it would pass by a large margin.

What would the other option in the referendum be?

Something like this.

Will you:

a. Accept Mrs May's deal.
b. Be fired into the Sun using Mr Dancer's revolutionary space trebuchet.

It's a win-win.

David_Evershed

rcs1000 said:

David_Evershed said:

RobD said:

SouthamObserver said:

Magnificent, it is true. Michael Gove plus the collective brain power of Grayling, Fox, Leadsom and Mordaunt. So, Michael Gove then. Just wonderful :-D
https://twitter.com/timross_1/status/1063436108703432704?s=21

Good lord. What on earth do they hope to achieve in 1 week? And why didn't they do this say two years ago?

Davis did it two years ago but was undermined and ignored by May.

And it reflects poorly on him that he did not resign earlier. If you are the Brexit secretary, and you are being cut out of the loop, you resign to fight your case.

Always a fine balance between staying to fight for the cause and resigning - as Gove is finding.

kle4

stodge said:

I have no evidence for this but my assumption is their assumption is they haven't got enough votes to defeat May but enough to wound.

Nick P asked the question earlier and now I'll ask it - how much of a win does May need? I'd argue that if at least 120 MPs don't vote for her she has to go. I know the rules say 160 supporting is enough but this is politics not a rule book.

Major got 218 votes in 1995 and apparently would have quit had he got less than 214. Thatcher failed the first ballot on the Berkeley rules in 1990 but had it been a straight fight who could have taken her seriously with 170 MPs not supporting her?

Perhaps, as HYUFD has opined and like Corbyn she will play absolutely to the rule book and she has the hide of a rhinoceros (I doubt the latter incidentally) and f she wins 160-158 she will claim victory and carry on but no one will be fooled.

I honestly think all she is trying to do right now is ensure MPs do not shirk their responsibility and ensure that they vote on her deal, rather than it never gets to parliament because she is ousted. Whether her deal passes or fails I think it will be the last thing she does as PM (possibly she lasts a couple of months if the deal passes, to see if there is any chance a minority gov would work, which I don't think it would).

kle4

David_Evershed said:

Will anyone want to be Brexit Sec or Work and Pensions Sec under May?

They don't need the former anyway. The PM makes the calls on Brexit, clearly.

malcolmg

TheWhiteRabbit said:

David_Evershed said:

Will anyone want to be Brexit Sec or Work and Pensions Sec under May?

I would say the favourite to be Brexit Sec is currently Minister for the Civil Service

Which nonentity is that then

kle4

malcolmg said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

David_Evershed said:

Will anyone want to be Brexit Sec or Work and Pensions Sec under May?

I would say the favourite to be Brexit Sec is currently Minister for the Civil Service

Which nonentity is that then

Lidington?

TheWhiteRabbit

JohnO said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

David_Evershed said:

Will anyone want to be Brexit Sec or Work and Pensions Sec under May?

I would say the favourite to be Brexit Sec is currently Minister for the Civil Service

Lidders? Well, he was Europe Minster for the entire 2010-15 Parliament.

No, he's Minister for the Cabinet Office.

Minister for the Civil Service is an ex oficio position

Big_G_NorthWales

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

They horrify me. They and momentum are one and the same. Extreme to the core and hopefully will be filleted when TM wins her deal or we remain

DavidL

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/Dannythefink/status/1063439749833269251

Superb.

RoyalBlue

I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.

These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.

kle4

TheWhiteRabbit said:

JohnO said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

David_Evershed said:

Will anyone want to be Brexit Sec or Work and Pensions Sec under May?

I would say the favourite to be Brexit Sec is currently Minister for the Civil Service

Lidders? Well, he was Europe Minster for the entire 2010-15 Parliament.

No, he's Minister for the Cabinet Office.

Minister for the Civil Service is an ex oficio position

Darn it, I was tricked by the question. That'll be the PM then

FrancisUrquhart

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/Dannythefink/status/1063439749833269251

I know according to the Guardian, Superheros are now verboten, but Gove's super power is the ability to start an argument in an empty lift.

JohnO

TheWhiteRabbit said:

JohnO said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

David_Evershed said:

Will anyone want to be Brexit Sec or Work and Pensions Sec under May?

I would say the favourite to be Brexit Sec is currently Minister for the Civil Service

Lidders? Well, he was Europe Minster for the entire 2010-15 Parliament.

No, he's Minister for the Cabinet Office.

Minister for the Civil Service is an ex oficio position

Yes, of course...so one T May.

murali_s

Shesus! Just skimmed through the thread header!

The Tories are an utter shambles!

kle4

RoyalBlue said:

I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.

These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.

The Tories will not have or win any majority without their strand of opinion.

But the division has become too deep. Clearly the two sides cannot reconcile over a very critical issue, it is no minor disagreement, and should not be in the same party any longer.

Have the fight, see which side wins, then split.

Xenon

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

Moon-howling buccaneeers?

Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.

DavidL

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

They horrify me. They and momentum are one and the same. Extreme to the core and hopefully will be filleted when TM wins her deal or we remain

I really hope that the opportunity is taken to drive these loons out of the party. But first things first. How does Mrs May get her deal? The current threat of talking at people until they agree is very potent but can she drive enough people to tears to carry the House?

FrancisUrquhart

https://order-order.com/2018/11/16/baker-confronts-brexit-protestor/

I think if I was Baker I would have then said, "now f##k off and get a job, cos nobody likes you you massive bell-end".

You can hear in the tone of the media just how pissed off with him.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/paul__johnson/status/1063445479487389696

rcs1000

Xenon said:

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

Moon-howling buccaneeers?

Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.

"Most ordinary people oppose May's deal"

Two questions:

1. Is there any evidence for your claim?

2. Should ordinary people get more votes than extraordinary people?
2a. And how do we distinguish between the ordinary and the extraordinary?

OneArmedBadger

Besides various adamantine Brexiteers, that ,list omits Grant Shapps, who led the last charge to get 48 names, and has enough aliases to muster half a dozen on his own.

tlg86

RoyalBlue said:

I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.

These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.

And that would be the death of the Conservative Party - though that's likely to happen anyway.

RoyalBlue

kle4 said:

RoyalBlue said:

I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.

These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.

The Tories will not have or win any majority without their strand of opinion.

But the division has become too deep. Clearly the two sides cannot reconcile over a very critical issue, it is no minor disagreement, and should not be in the same party any longer.

Have the fight, see which side wins, then split.

We won’t win a majority today. I care about the long-term, and association with no deal will be utterly terminal for my party.

Your last sentence doesn’t make sense. There is no need for a fight; the division is already here. They have 40MPs at best. They need to be flushed out and destroyed at an election.

Labour will be in power. So be it.

JosiasJessop

Xenon said:

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

Moon-howling buccaneeers?

Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.

"...nd the ERG are representing their views"

Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, many people reject the deal from a pro-remain standpoint. The ERG are not representing their views.

Brom

JosiasJessop said:

Xenon said:

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

Moon-howling buccaneeers?

Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.

"...nd the ERG are representing their views"

Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, many people reject the deal from a pro-remain standpoint. The ERG are not representing their views.

If you're going to critique Rees Mogg et all for wanting a proper Brexit then how ridiculous do the likes of Jo Johnson and Sarah Wollaston look with their constant people's vote whining? And I come as that as someone who largely supports May's deal.

DavidL

rcs1000 said:

Xenon said:

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

Moon-howling buccaneeers?

Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.

"Most ordinary people oppose May's deal"

Two questions:

1. Is there any evidence for your claim?

2. Should ordinary people get more votes than extraordinary people?
2a. And how do we distinguish between the ordinary and the extraordinary?

I am tempted to say that membership of a political party is a good start.

kle4

RoyalBlue said:

kle4 said:

RoyalBlue said:

I think it’s getting to the point that May should tell the ERG that if they can’t get the votes by the end of next week for a VONC, and they continue to oppose the government on Brexit, the whip will be withdrawn. If that means a general election that gives Corbyn a majority, thanks to a Tory split, so be it. The ERG, and everyone associated with it, will be finished.

These people are a cancer in the Conservative Party. They must concede or be cut out.

The Tories will not have or win any majority without their strand of opinion.

But the division has become too deep. Clearly the two sides cannot reconcile over a very critical issue, it is no minor disagreement, and should not be in the same party any longer.

Have the fight, see which side wins, then split.

We won’t win a majority today. I care about the long-term, and association with no deal will be utterly terminal for my party.

Your last sentence doesn’t make sense. There is no need for a fight; the division is already here. They have 40MPs at best. They need to be flushed out and destroyed at an election.

Labour will be in power. So be it.

What I mean by have the fight is have this vote of no confidence, which is being used as a proxy for brexit, and then split after than demonstrates how many are on each side.

I absolutely agree that Labour in power is something they will all have to contend with, some things are more important than which party is in power. If their party is trying to approve something truly terrible they should not be in it.

Lennon

Thinking about the ERG's 'maybe next week' - presumably the thinking (assuming there is some) is that MP's will go back to Constituencies over the weekend and take the pulse of the Tory faithful, the local Branch Chairman etc.

In which case - what are those people thinking? I imagine more pro-deal and anti-ERG taking the pulse on here but is that representative?

Xenon

rcs1000 said:

Xenon said:

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

Moon-howling buccaneeers?

Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.

"Most ordinary people oppose May's deal"

Two questions:

1. Is there any evidence for your claim?

2. Should ordinary people get more votes than extraordinary people?
2a. And how do we distinguish between the ordinary and the extraordinary?

Look at the polls about the deal floating about yesterday.

kle4

rcs1000 said:

Xenon said:

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

Moon-howling buccaneeers?

Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.

"Most ordinary people oppose May's deal"

Two questions:

1. Is there any evidence for your claim?

2. Should ordinary people get more votes than extraordinary people?
2a. And how do we distinguish between the ordinary and the extraordinary?

Such polling as there has been appears to suggest most people do not like the deal, although that includes plenty of remainers hoping to remain of course, and in any case while the public's views are not to be simply dismissed, an opinion poll is not firm evidence of anything, certainly as a fixed opinion as a 20pt lead can remind us all.

Xenon

JosiasJessop said:

Xenon said:

SouthamObserver said:

You know, this is actually a huge opportunity for the Conservative party to see off the moon-howling Buccaneers. I know many good Tories and I cannot believe that any of these ERG cretins, charlatans, liars and simpletons speak for them. Get these loons out, get them gone. Learn from labour before it is too late. This could well be your last chance.

Moon-howling buccaneeers?

Most ordinary people oppose May's deal and the ERG are representing their views. I realise most people on here want a political class stitch-up to get out of delivering on Brexit, but not everyone shares that view.

"...nd the ERG are representing their views"

Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, many people reject the deal from a pro-remain standpoint. The ERG are not representing their views.

And I suppose they are moon-howling buccaneeers as well.

Along with anyone else who doesn't want this deal.