The refrain on here is that Trump is absurd, idiotic, or straight forward mad. Although I'm no expert on US politics, my view is that he's none of those. He is a good politician, he knows what works with his voters. HRC is a poor politician, riding on the coat tails of connections and money.
Incidentally, I don't regard being a good politician as a compliment, but it's easy to make the old mistake of thinking that people who disagree with you must be wrong and/or stupid (the default setting for the "elite").
Trumps actual policies aren't extreme for the Republican party, it's only his manner and some of his pubic utterances that are designed to set up howls of rage from the that same elite. He's playing them like a violin.
He might win, he probably won't, but he's the Bernie of the GOP. And the public current mood in many countries is for an "outsider".
If he's elected, I suspect he'll be far more sensible than some think.
An actor won big not long ago. No one expected that either.
Edit: "If he's elected, I suspect he'll be far more sensible than some think." I wish I could say the same about Jezza.
A peanut farmer won a bit longer ago. However 'Bernie' lost while Trump won. (Usual occupation of POTUS is a Lawyer - at least recently, initially they tended to be farmers/ plantation owners.)
Reagan is interesting.
An actor and President of the Screen Actors Guild. He was also a motivational speaker (says Wiki) in the 1950s.
But he did not switch from Democrat to Republican until he was in his 50s, and became Governor of Cali only 4 years later.
His brief speech at the convention after losing the nomination in 76 was one of those moments when people realised they picked the wrong man.
Amazing what's possible post-Brexit. The great national constipation is being purged.
It's true we're gonna be crapped on for the next few years.
I don't know what you mean by "we", I've never even visited Spain.
Oh dear - if you think the damage will be limited to Europe you're in for a nasty shock - but it wasfunny to see you referring to constipation. Here in Spain almost all problems can be borne with 325 sunny days and prices even now 30% less than the UK.
So you have been and are one of the most vociferous opponents on this site of the U.K people determining its own future and how it is governed .
Now you openly admit you live in Spain ???You don't even live in this country???
M'kay
You'll find that some of the grumpiest Remainers on this site are domiciled abroad, with income denominated in Sterling. Hence the saltiness.
Lol - fair point but I'm not so grumpy and will cope very well in the future living here. not the case for all 'expats' though. Many are elderly, frail and on quite limited incomes - if they are forced to return they'd be a huge burden on the UK health and benefit system.
They would not be a huge burden at all, there are far to few of them for it to matter much.
Not that I think there is the slightest chance of them being forced to return. Elderly Brits lived abroad before 1973.
Hmm - there are several hundred thousand in Spain alone - I didn't realise the NHS was quite so unburdened or local council care homes.
The number of expats in living in Europe is tiny compared to the population of the UK (see posts by others up-thread), the number of said expats who, if they are forced to return, who would need serious health care and or nursing homes is even smaller. Unless the Spanish go in for mass deportations, the number arriving at anyone time would be so small as to be trivial given the number of elderly patients the NHS treats every day.
I'll say again it was perfectly possible for elderly Brits to live and get health care in Spain/Portugal etc before the countries joined what is now the EU. It will be after we leave.
Why didn't Labour have more heavyweight MPs standing, rather than Eagle and Smith?
Mr Dancer - the heavyweights can do politics and can spot an elephant trap a mile off. This wasn't a contest for serious people to dirty their hands with.
Amazing what's possible post-Brexit. The great national constipation is being purged.
It's true we're gonna be crapped on for the next few years.
I don't know what you mean by "we", I've never even visited Spain.
Oh dear - if you think the damage will be limited to Europe you're in for a nasty shock - but it wasfunny to see you referring to constipation. Here in Spain almost all problems can be borne with 325 sunny days and prices even now 30% less than the UK.
So you have been and are one of the most vociferous opponents on this site of the U.K people determining its own future and how it is governed .
Now you openly admit you live in Spain ???You don't even live in this country???
M'kay
You'll find that some of the grumpiest Remainers on this site are domiciled abroad, with income denominated in Sterling. Hence the saltiness.
Lol - fair point but I'm not so grumpy and will cope very well in the future living here. not the case for all 'expats' though. Many are elderly, frail and on quite limited incomes - if they are forced to return they'd be a huge burden on the UK health and benefit system.
I tried to make the observation as neutral as I could .
At this point, I'm just going to play the cards as they are dealt. If Spain decides that it is in its national interest to repatriate British citizens, or elderly Brits desire to return home due to impoverishment, we'll take it from there. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof and all that.
One hopes that both sides will be sensible. Spain may try to be silly by involving Gibraltar in the discussions [ mind you if you've been there, apart from the weather its a pretty naff dump!] while the UK has David Davis - although to be fair so far he's still sounding mostly sane.
Not saying much then?
One has to be kind - he went through a pretty odd phase a few years back.
Indeed. Some might argue since 1948. References to the negotiations being like the Schleswig-Holstein Question will obviously help though.
@PolhomeEditor: Owen Smith: "John (McDonnell) and Jeremy, for all their good intentions, have been weak." Cue "we don't do personal attacks" Corbyn response
If they actually want to win, they need the best possible candidate. Assume Corbyn wins: what next? Wait to be crushed in 2020?
Labour complacency worked a treat for them in Scotland. If UKIP's new leader gets stuck into norther/eastern constituencies, Labour could go backwards in another election.
What do you mean Goldman Sachs sounds as dodgy as fuck. This is the company that was caught out selling an investment whilst at the same time trading against it, so its value went down. It was also the company who conspired to fix the greek's books so that it appeared they qualified for Euro membership.
Goldman should have been run out of the City years ago.
It may well be possible to live in Spain if self funding social care and Medical Insurance, but not for those relying on the Spanish state. That is indeed what we are headed for in terms of EU migrants here so would come as little surprise. I see market forces doing this rather than deportations. Wealthier people like me will still have the sunshine option.
Some will need to return, and fewer will likely go out than a decade ago. They may well lose a lot of equity in their properies and indeed find it difficult to sell. The numbers are probably not insignificant, but do require a degree of planning particularly for stretched social services and NHS in retirement areas in the UK.
So you have been and are one of the most vociferous opponents on this site of the U.K people determining its own future and how it is governed .
Now you openly admit you live in Spain ???You don't even live in this country???
M'kay
You'll find that some of the grumpiest Remainers on this site are domiciled abroad, with income denominated in Sterling. Hence the saltiness.
Lol - fair point but I'm not so grumpy and will cope very well in the future living here. not the case for all 'expats' though. Many are elderly, frail and on quite limited incomes - if they are forced to return they'd be a huge burden on the UK health and benefit system.
They would not be a huge burden at all, there are far to few of them for it to matter much.
Not that I think there is the slightest chance of them being forced to return. Elderly Brits lived abroad before 1973.
Hmm - there are several hundred thousand in Spain alone - I didn't realise the NHS was quite so unburdened or local council care homes.
I'll say again it was perfectly possible for elderly Brits to live and get health care in Spain/Portugal etc before the countries joined what is now the EU. It will be after we leave.
Yes but the rules have changed since those times - only pensioners now qualify and the bill is paid by the UK govt. Hopefully that will continue but it is yet to be guaranteed and people are already are planning to return because of the uncertainty. It may be irrational but there you are. There are also likely to be fewer deciding to come - all of which will make it very much harder to get the net migration figures down. There are an estimated 3m Brits living in Europe - unofficially probable more. Not so tiny when you consider the current burdens the UK welfare budgets face - which of course will worsen with slower growth.
Steven Swinford Owen Smith it very keen on 'smashing'. He's now used it about half a dozen times to describe what he wants to do to Theresa May and Tories
Amazing what's possible post-Brexit. The great national constipation is being purged.
It's true we're gonna be crapped on for the next few years.
I don't know what you mean by "we", I've never even visited Spain.
Oh dear - if you think the damage will be limited to Europe you're in for a nasty shock - but it wasfunny to see you referring to constipation. Here in Spain almost all problems can be borne with 325 sunny days and prices even now 30% less than the UK.
So you have been and are one of the most vociferous opponents on this site of the U.K people determining its own future and how it is governed .
Now you openly admit you live in Spain ???You don't even live in this country???
M'kay
You'll find that some of the grumpiest Remainers on this site are domiciled abroad, with income denominated in Sterling. Hence the saltiness.
Lol - fair point but I'm not so grumpy and will cope very well in the future living here. not the case for all 'expats' though. Many are elderly, frail and on quite limited incomes - if they are forced to return they'd be a huge burden on the UK health and benefit system.
I tried to make the observation as neutral as I could .
At this point, I'm just going to play the cards as they are dealt. If Spain decides that it is in its national interest to repatriate British citizens, or elderly Brits desire to return home due to impoverishment, we'll take it from there. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof and all that.
One hopes that both sides will be sensible. Spain may try to be silly by involving Gibraltar in the discussions [ mind you if you've been there, apart from the weather its a pretty naff dump!] while the UK has David Davis - although to be fair so far he's still sounding mostly sane.
Not saying much then?
One has to be kind - he went through a pretty odd phase a few years back.
Indeed. Some might argue since 1948. References to the negotiations being like the Schleswig-Holstein Question will obviously help though.
... References to the negotiations being like the Schleswig-Holstein Question will obviously help though.
If I remember my Flashman, according to Palmerston the Schleswig-Holstein Question was only understood by three men: Prince Albert who was dead, a German professor who went mad and Pam himself who had forgotten all about it.
Amazing what's possible post-Brexit. The great national constipation is being purged.
It's true we're gonna be crapped on for the next few years.
I don't know what you mean by "we", I've never even visited Spain.
Oh dear - if you think the damage will be limited to Europe you're in for a nasty shock - but it wasfunny to see you referring to constipation. Here in Spain almost all problems can be borne with 325 sunny days and prices even now 30% less than the UK.
So you have been and are one of the most vociferous opponents on this site of the U.K people determining its own future and how it is governed .
Now you openly admit you live in Spain ???You don't even live in this country???
M'kay
I remain a UK citizen and pay most of my taxes in the UK and vote in Uk elections.. It has never been a secret that I live in Spain. Why on earth would that be a problem for a non-bigot?
Original Deleted..not worth a reply
Oh dear! I have a teacher's pension - wholly taxed in the UK. I have a private pension wholly taxed in Spain exactly as required by the double tax treaty. I have savings in both with taxes fully paid in both. I pay for private healthcare and claim no benefits either in Spain or the UK. You really are making a tit of yourself.
Discovered something interesting on the ONS site. Only 15.2% of all UK companies do any international trade of any sort, either EU or RoW.
Only 40% of large (>250 folk) companies export. For small businesses (<50 folk) the ratio is even lower, just 10.2%.</p>
Although those datasets should be treated with a large degree of caution. Let me give you an example. When I worked at Goldman Sachs, I was technically an employee of Goldman Sachs Services Ltd, on secondment to another company (who's name I forget). There were literally hundreds of companies under the Goldman Sachs International Ltd umbrella. And most of them didn't export.
(Why so many firms? My guess was to use limited liability cover to ensure that problems in one part might be firewalled. But that's only a guess.)
@SophyRidgeSky: Owen Smith says he wants to "smash austerity" & replace the Dpt of Work & Pensions with a Ministry of Labour https://t.co/MAr9CZxXqh
I'd like to know what the actual fuck 'privatising the national debt' is supposed to mean.
Listened to a lot of it. He sounds waaaay more professional than his opponent and seemed to have real passion. He would be a lot, lot more appealing that JC in the North and Scotland (and Wales, natch).
However, to my right-wing ears if somebody had played the speech and told me it was from a Labour conference in 1978, I'd have believed them. Must have mentioned 'workers' over 50 times; 'workers rights' 20 times. Firm belief in the Magic Money Tree.
@SophyRidgeSky: Owen Smith says he wants to "smash austerity" & replace the Dpt of Work & Pensions with a Ministry of Labour https://t.co/MAr9CZxXqh
I'd like to know what the actual fuck 'privatising the national debt' is supposed to mean.
Listened to a lot of it. He sounds waaaay more professional than his opponent and seemed to have real passion. He would be a lot, lot more appealing that JC in the North and Scotland (and Wales, natch).
However, to my right-wing ears if somebody had played the speech and told me it was from a Labour conference in 1978, I'd have believed them. Must have mentioned 'workers' over 50 times; 'workers rights' 20 times. Firm belief in the Magic Money Tree.
Don't forget his only job at the moment is to win around Labour members, not the public.
Politics Home Lab leader hopeful Owen Smith denounces "misty eyed romanticism about a revolution" and calls for a "cold eyed and practical revolution".
Comments
I'll say again it was perfectly possible for elderly Brits to live and get health care in Spain/Portugal etc before the countries joined what is now the EU. It will be after we leave.
They both look like haddocks in a suit.
Exciting news, we're planning three new offices in the US! See you soon Minneapolis, Raleigh and San Diego! https://t.co/Mf8HnA02S4
No
They have been weak opposition to the Tories, but brutal opposition to their enemies on the Labour benches...
And one of Plenty? Peace? Love?
If they actually want to win, they need the best possible candidate. Assume Corbyn wins: what next? Wait to be crushed in 2020?
Labour complacency worked a treat for them in Scotland. If UKIP's new leader gets stuck into norther/eastern constituencies, Labour could go backwards in another election.
"Goldman sounds as dodgy as fuck..."
What do you mean Goldman Sachs sounds as dodgy as fuck. This is the company that was caught out selling an investment whilst at the same time trading against it, so its value went down. It was also the company who conspired to fix the greek's books so that it appeared they qualified for Euro membership.
Goldman should have been run out of the City years ago.
It may well be possible to live in Spain if self funding social care and Medical Insurance, but not for those relying on the Spanish state. That is indeed what we are headed for in terms of EU migrants here so would come as little surprise. I see market forces doing this rather than deportations. Wealthier people like me will still have the sunshine option.
Some will need to return, and fewer will likely go out than a decade ago. They may well lose a lot of equity in their properies and indeed find it difficult to sell. The numbers are probably not insignificant, but do require a degree of planning particularly for stretched social services and NHS in retirement areas in the UK.
Balls is not an MP. Harman has turned away from the opportunity. The candidates last time showed themselves to be lightweight. Who else is left?
Owen Smith it very keen on 'smashing'. He's now used it about half a dozen times to describe what he wants to do to Theresa May and Tories
"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win"
What say you now!
Smith's policy agenda shows how Corbyn has shifted Labour's internal debate dramatically leftwards. https://t.co/kG5TGsJdOD
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
Owen Smith achieving the impossible and sounding more left wing than Jeremy Corbyn. Trouble is, we all know he's playing to the gallery.
Not sure that sort analogy will be useful.
However, to my right-wing ears if somebody had played the speech and told me it was from a Labour conference in 1978, I'd have believed them. Must have mentioned 'workers' over 50 times; 'workers rights' 20 times. Firm belief in the Magic Money Tree.
The New Electoral Boundaries in Wales
https://t.co/3FdQAOiH3Z
Politics Home
Lab leader hopeful Owen Smith denounces "misty eyed romanticism about a revolution" and calls for a "cold eyed and practical revolution".
This marginally reduces their %ge representation. (as it reflects increasing population of England)