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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mapping across – how the Brexit vote might translate onto the

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    rcs1000 said:

    Just hedged Baroin at 11 (backed at 32). Only tiny stakes, of course, but now, when things settle down, Baroin and Juppe both have hedgeable margins. Ahead by a smaller sum if Le Pen or Fillon win. Also fairly green (by my standards, I know most here bet far more than me) on Macron.

    Actually, I think PB is pretty much flat on Macron. It's just that all the bets against were from HYUFD.
    LOL! I thought it was pretty cheeky of your dad to keep bigging up his (good) 7/1 call when you were advising him at 20s!
    You mean like my 10/1 tip thread on Labour polling sub 20% at the general election?
    It's not your fault if you've been trained that way.
    Well if the bet's a loser I will flag it up as a tip by you, and if it is a winner, I'm taking all the glory.

    (Genuinely, I never saw your tip, if I had, would have hat-tipped you)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Baroin is the unknown quantity. Juppe is a known loser !

    ALLEZ BAROIN.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Marie Le Conte‏ @youngvulgarian 3m3 minutes ago
    More
    I honestly don't see what Fillon can do in his press conference apart from pulling out. He's already had one surprise press conference where

    Marie Le Conte‏ @youngvulgarian 2m2 minutes ago
    More
    we all thought he'd announce he was quitting, but he went for the whole "fuck all y'all, I'm fighting on" routine. You can't do that twice.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Marie Le Conte‏ @youngvulgarian 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Figaro announcing that Fillon's campaign manager Patrick Stefanini has resigned. Press conference in 15 minutes.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    rcs1000 said:

    Just hedged Baroin at 11 (backed at 32). Only tiny stakes, of course, but now, when things settle down, Baroin and Juppe both have hedgeable margins. Ahead by a smaller sum if Le Pen or Fillon win. Also fairly green (by my standards, I know most here bet far more than me) on Macron.

    Actually, I think PB is pretty much flat on Macron. It's just that all the bets against were from HYUFD.
    LOL! I thought it was pretty cheeky of your dad to keep bigging up his (good) 7/1 call when you were advising him at 20s!
    You mean like my 10/1 tip thread on Labour polling sub 20% at the general election?
    It's not your fault if you've been trained that way.
    Well if the bet's a loser I will flag it up as a tip by you, and if it is a winner, I'm taking all the glory.

    (Genuinely, I never saw your tip, if I had, would have hat-tipped you)
    I know :p
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Please let it be Baroin, I am +440 on him.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited March 2017
    Or it's (a younger) Dominic Cummings (!)
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    So it begins. The DM battle against any kind of death duty to pay for social care:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4269840/SARAH-VINE-wanted-death-taxes-d-vote-communist.html#ixzz4a3ZHmhjM

    Not just the Daily Mail but the wife of Michael Gove.

    Given how influential she was in the Tory leadership contest and the slenderness of the Tory majority, be very afraid Mrs May.
    Perhaps Mrs Gove can ask her husband to come up with another way of raising the billions needed for social care with an ageing population.
    How about taxing (say over £30k) the lump sums from pensions?
    DavidL said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn & McDonnell reaching out to SWP, that will work for them.

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/836869298748534784

    Tory 17 point lead.

    Farron also going nowhere.

    All completely MOE of course but the consolidation of the UKIP vote into the Tories appears to continue. This is a very positive trend for May and threatens to put her onto the largest share of the vote for any party for a considerable time. I do think people are underestimating the implications of this in the same way that many underestimated the SNP prior to 2015.
    I'd be interested in the polling for Scotland.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Pulpstar, it'd be convenient for me if it's Baroin (could be all-green specifically on Betfair, and not have to shuffle money around) although I'm greener on Juppe overall.

    Not into the hundreds, mind.
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    BudGBudG Posts: 711
    rcs1000 said:

    BudG said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Just hedged Baroin at 11 (backed at 32). Only tiny stakes, of course, but now, when things settle down, Baroin and Juppe both have hedgeable margins. Ahead by a smaller sum if Le Pen or Fillon win. Also fairly green (by my standards, I know most here bet far more than me) on Macron.

    Actually, I think PB is pretty much flat on Macron. It's just that all the bets against were from HYUFD.
    I think if Fillon IS replaced, Macron will have a tougher time against Juppe or Baroin.
    It's an interesting question, isn't it? Juppe would be very good for Le Pen, and poor for Macron.

    Baroin would be more mixed. I think he probably also loses out to Le Pen, but without necessarily grabbing many votes from Macron.

    I think there's another dynamic at work, too. I think if it looks close between Baroin and Macron for who faces off against Le Pen, then more centrist Hamon voters vote for Macron so they have at least one (slightly) left wing candidate in the final two.

    Market seems to think Juppe is the likeliest replacement. That would put Bayrou in a difficult position as he had previously promised to give his backing to Juppe if he ran.

    If it IS Juppe, then I would expect him to replace Macron as favourite.

    Despite the betting, Baroin still seems to be the likeliest replacement to me.

    But Fillon is a stubborn git, most would have withdrawn well before now, so would not be at all surprised if he decides to use this as an opportunity to reinforce his mantra that he is the victim of a conspiracy and ride it out.
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    Apparently there is no rules/provisions in rule book if Fillon pulled out

    https://twitter.com/Figarat/status/836890355077378049
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,795
    rcs1000 said:

    BudG said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Just hedged Baroin at 11 (backed at 32). Only tiny stakes, of course, but now, when things settle down, Baroin and Juppe both have hedgeable margins. Ahead by a smaller sum if Le Pen or Fillon win. Also fairly green (by my standards, I know most here bet far more than me) on Macron.

    Actually, I think PB is pretty much flat on Macron. It's just that all the bets against were from HYUFD.
    I think if Fillon IS replaced, Macron will have a tougher time against Juppe or Baroin.
    It's an interesting question, isn't it? Juppe would be very good for Le Pen, and poor for Macron.

    Baroin would be more mixed. I think he probably also loses out to Le Pen, but without necessarily grabbing many votes from Macron.

    I think there's another dynamic at work, too. I think if it looks close between Baroin and Macron for who faces off against Le Pen, then more centrist Hamon voters vote for Macron so they have at least one (slightly) left wing candidate in the final two.

    Wouldn't that effect apply to ANY right of centre candidate that was up against Macron?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Marie Le Conte‏ @youngvulgarian 3m3 minutes ago
    More
    Marie Le Conte Retweeted Jean-Baptiste Garat
    Rumour is now that Fillon is pulling out but party doesn't know who'll replace him. Hell of a nail-biter for Macron.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Too late to run another primary?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    BudG said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BudG said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Just hedged Baroin at 11 (backed at 32). Only tiny stakes, of course, but now, when things settle down, Baroin and Juppe both have hedgeable margins. Ahead by a smaller sum if Le Pen or Fillon win. Also fairly green (by my standards, I know most here bet far more than me) on Macron.

    Actually, I think PB is pretty much flat on Macron. It's just that all the bets against were from HYUFD.
    I think if Fillon IS replaced, Macron will have a tougher time against Juppe or Baroin.
    It's an interesting question, isn't it? Juppe would be very good for Le Pen, and poor for Macron.

    Baroin would be more mixed. I think he probably also loses out to Le Pen, but without necessarily grabbing many votes from Macron.

    I think there's another dynamic at work, too. I think if it looks close between Baroin and Macron for who faces off against Le Pen, then more centrist Hamon voters vote for Macron so they have at least one (slightly) left wing candidate in the final two.

    Market seems to think Juppe is the likeliest replacement. That would put Bayrou in a difficult position as he had previously promised to give his backing to Juppe if he ran.

    If it IS Juppe, then I would expect him to replace Macron as favourite.

    Despite the betting, Baroin still seems to be the likeliest replacement to me.

    But Fillon is a stubborn git, most would have withdrawn well before now, so would not be at all surprised if he decides to use this as an opportunity to reinforce his mantra that he is the victim of a conspiracy and ride it out.
    I'm in agreement with this assesment.

    Consider this analysis (Probably to be blown apart by events in 20 minutes)

    If he is staying put then he will announce that he thinks the attacks on Penelope are 'politically motivated' and go a bit Trump with the media.
    If he is pulling out then he gives it to Baroin - who seems to be at the HQ...
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    ttps://twitter.com/nickjbarlow/status/836888841046876162

    He appears to be a protege of Chirac, the man that was elected because he wasn't Jean-Marie Le Pen, so there is a certain symmetry about it.

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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    F1: McLaren have gotten 18 laps done so far. That's pretty much average, but given previous problems they'll probably be quite relieved.

    Force India haven't done many. I think they may have reliability issues too.

    “British English discontinued the use of “have gotten” as a form of the past participle for “get” over 300 years ago. The British Colonies on the other hand continued to use it. As a result American English continued the use of “have gotten” while British English relegated the word to obsolescence. It is now rarely used in the British version of the English language. American English continues to use “have gotten” to emphasis the action performed. In American English language “has got” implies possession. It is assumed that if “has got” is used that it is referencing what the person has in their possession. On the other hand, “has gotten” implies that the person acquired, received or obtained an item.”

    www.reference.com
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Len is not as pro-Corbyn as he was previously though.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Sorry, don't have time to deal with the end of the Labour party this morning as busy in France.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    Is there a cut off date for candidates to declare?

    Macron could propose a 'front republicain' to fight Le Pen whereby Fillon is not replaced in return for a deal to bring members of the party into his government.
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Macron, Fillon, Le Pen, Dupont-Aignan, Hamon, Mélenchon - all their surnames end with an 'n'. Quite a coincidence!

    If Fillon withdraws in an hour's time, perhaps his replacement will be not Alain Juppé...but François Baroin :)
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    So true

    "If you’ve ever worked with oppressed groups, such as people who are homeless, abused, addicted or suffering from mental health problems, there's one thing you learn straight away. They usually don't frame their worldviews in terms of academic theories students learn in gender studies classes in university. For the most part, they tend to not analyse their experiences in terms of systemic power and privilege, concepts such as “the patriarchy”, “white privilege”, or “heteronormativity”.

    While many of these folks know that they're directly impacted by class inequality, they don't sit around pondering capitalism, reading Marx, or tackling the effects of “problematic behaviours”. They are not concerned with checking their privilege. No. They are busy trying to survive. Getting through the next day. Meeting their basic needs. They don't bother with policing their language and worrying about how their words might unintentionally perpetuate certain stereotypes. They are more concerned with their voices being heard.

    Yet I witness so many “activists” who ignore the realities of oppression despite saying that they care about those at the bottom of society. They think that being offended by something is equal to experiencing prison time or living on the streets. They talk about listening, being humble and not having preconceptions. Yet they ignore the lived experiences of those who don’t speak or think properly in the view of university-educated social justice warriors, regardless of how much worse off they really are...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-this-radical-activist-is-disillusioned-by-the-toxic-culture-of-the-left-a6895211.html
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    BudGBudG Posts: 711

    Is there a cut off date for candidates to declare?

    Macron could propose a 'front republicain' to fight Le Pen whereby Fillon is not replaced in return for a deal to bring members of the party into his government.

    March 17th
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    edited March 2017
    On thread - Alastair back to his (fairly) measured, perceptive best. But we need to point out that while Leave/Remain was a horrible binary choice, most people don't sit neatly in one of two binary camps. The number of damn-them-all ultra-leavers and bend-over-and-take-it ultra-remainers is pretty small; most people fall either into 'on balance leave - but...' or 'on balance remain - but...' (or the often overlooked 'don't knows').

    For EU elections in the past, my view was that the country fell fairly neatly into four camps: those who wanted more Europe voted Lib Dem - hence their terrible showing at EU elections - those who wanted about the same amount of Europe voted Labour; those who wanted less Europe voted Conservative and those who wanted no Europe at all voted UKIP. This has segued quite neatly into a post-referendum equivalent: UKIP are still unequivocally the voice of the hardcore leaver, and the Lib Dems as that of the hardcore remainer. The Conservatives will, after some circumlocution, out of necessity of being in government and having to implement the decision, end up as the voice of middle-of-the-road Leave - the party of slightly soft Brexit. Rubbery Brexit, perhaps. They will no doubt alienate a few Conservative supporters at either end of the Leave-Remain spectrum in doing so, but that's the nature of politics when taking any policy decision.

    As the principal opposition party, Labour would ordinarily have a natural position as the 'if-we-must-but-ooh, I-wouldn't-do-it-that-way' Leave - the party of slightly softer Brexit. Flaccid Brexit, perhaps. Again, they'd alienate a few along the way but most of those who couldn't get on board with this policy position are already in the Lib Dems. Labour's position, however, is complicated by the equivocal position of their leader on Brexit, and by the general musteline* nature of the party at present. Historically (well, since the 80s at least), Labour have done a very good job of internally disagreeing about Europe without falling out about it - in a way that they haven't about, say, nuclear weapons - largely, I suspect, because the issue was never seen as not that philosophically important. It was an issue where those who disagreed could disagree without seeing the other point of view as morally repugnant. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case.

    *of or pertaining to a ferret
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Will this thing start on time, or is it going to be all French and late running?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    edited March 2017

    Will this thing start on time, or is it going to be all French and late running?

    They will start, then have a three hour break for lunch....
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Pulpstar said:

    Len is not as pro-Corbyn as he was previously though.
    No, but he is still pro-"unelectable left-wing nutcase" for leader of the Labour Party.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    I don't accept the premise of the article - that how people voted in last June's Referendum will have a significant bearing on how they vote in a general election in 2020. Last week's by elections suggested that Brexit has already ceased to be a key salient issue. It is also often forgotten that a considerable proportion voted one way or the other in June 2016 with little enthusiasm - or indeed insight.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Juppe drifting out - does someone know?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Juppe now at 19
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727
    justin124 said:

    I don't accept the premise of the article - that how people voted in last June's Referendum will have a significant bearing on how they vote in a general election in 2020. Last week's by elections suggested that Brexit has already ceased to be a key salient issue. It is also often forgotten that a considerable proportion voted one way or the other in June 2016 with little enthusiasm - or indeed insight.

    The winners will vote on other issues, many of the losers feel strongly about it and it will influence their vote. Hence a big upset in Richmond and no big upset in Stoke.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Seems buzzfeed may be reporting another Fillon fake job, but I can't really read it.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Fillon seems to have been given a toy tractor as he heads to stage. Que?
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Cookie said:

    by the general musteline* nature of the party at present (...)
    *of or pertaining to a ferret

    I love witty explanatory footnotes :) But said nature also pertains to other mustelids, including wolverines, who are vicious, otters, and weasels.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    I'm on team Sarkozy.

    Because we need to see more of Carla Bruni.

    See - and hear? - more of Carla Bruni

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNyhV3nOO-o
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Can someone point me to somewhere reporting on what Fillon is actually saying in the presser rather than the commentator's own wishful thinking or fears ?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    edited March 2017
    What sort of EU is it going to be?

    http://www.politico.eu/article/breaking-politico-obtains-white-paper-on-eu-future/

    Pity Cameron hadn't got the balls to define it.
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    The rumour, cited to "sources", that Penelope Fillon has been taken into police custody has been denied.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    it is live here: http://www.bfmtv.com/mediaplayer/live-video/

    but so far nothing but waffle. He is not on stage yet
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Evershed, thou art a bloody jester! I'll not have ye saying I'm outdated, forsooth.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Oh, come on, *****y French. I have to go out at 12.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    Cyan said:

    Cookie said:

    by the general musteline* nature of the party at present (...)
    *of or pertaining to a ferret

    I love witty explanatory footnotes :) But said nature also pertains to other mustelids, including wolverines, who are vicious, otters, and weasels.
    I must admit, musteline isn't part of my usual vocabulary (though it shall be henceforth). It was the result of a quick google, and sadly, yes, it didn't just apply to ferrets. But I could easily think of certain members of the PLP who might be described more as a wolverine or a weasel than a ferret. Not sure who the otters are though.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Has he changed his mind or is he just playing with that toy tractor?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Golly

    DC Clothesline
    It Begins: Wendy’s Installs Robots in 1,000 Stores to Counter Minimum Wage https://t.co/Doxs2CvUr4 https://t.co/zLyZYhv5Z3
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Cookie said:

    As the principal opposition party, Labour would ordinarily have a natural position as the 'if-we-must-but-ooh, I-wouldn't-do-it-that-way' Leave - the party of slightly softer Brexit. Flaccid Brexit, perhaps. Again, they'd alienate a few along the way but most of those who couldn't get on board with this policy position are already in the Lib Dems. Labour's position, however, is complicated by the equivocal position of their leader on Brexit, and by the general musteline* nature of the party at present. Historically (well, since the 80s at least), Labour have done a very good job of internally disagreeing about Europe without falling out about it - in a way that they haven't about, say, nuclear weapons - largely, I suspect, because the issue was never seen as not that philosophically important. It was an issue where those who disagreed could disagree without seeing the other point of view as morally repugnant. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case.

    I think there is something in this. It has also suddenly gained a lot of salience because the governments thin majority, and therefore the pondering in the few remaining Labour thinkers about how to use that to get back in the game. The issue of BrExit makes that whole idea a nightmare for them though, its the most visceral political issue of the day, and they have the many of the most Leave and most Remain seats in the country, move either way even slightly and they risk being worse off rather than better, and yet both sides expect them to advocate loudly for their prefered position.

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    BBC Archive
    #OTD 1958: Prince Phillip was challenged to a Tiddlywinks game by Cambridge University. He dispatched his Royal Champions, The Goons https://t.co/CFjSXvq4Lq
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited March 2017

    justin124 said:

    I don't accept the premise of the article - that how people voted in last June's Referendum will have a significant bearing on how they vote in a general election in 2020. Last week's by elections suggested that Brexit has already ceased to be a key salient issue. It is also often forgotten that a considerable proportion voted one way or the other in June 2016 with little enthusiasm - or indeed insight.

    The winners will vote on other issues, many of the losers feel strongly about it and it will influence their vote. Hence a big upset in Richmond and no big upset in Stoke.
    By-elections are a cheap protest. Richmond wont risk putting Corbyn or one of his camp followers in Downing Street.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    PlatoSaid said:

    Golly

    DC Clothesline
    It Begins: Wendy’s Installs Robots in 1,000 Stores to Counter Minimum Wage https://t.co/Doxs2CvUr4 https://t.co/zLyZYhv5Z3

    Well we already have these order points in Stoke-on-Trent McDonald's, so "robots" is taking the piss a bit.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    To my mind there are about half a dozen Con seats that are vulnerable to the LDs due to their high remain votes - Bath, Cheltenham, OXWAB, Winchester, Twickenham and Kingston. There are also others that the LDs ought to be able to make competitive like S Cambs and St Albans. A lot of the Con remain votes are in very safe seats like Wokingham.

    However, I still think there is a greater opportunity for the Cons if they can take UKIP votes in the Midlands in places like Dudley, Coventry, Stoke, Walsall, Wolverhampton. Also Noirth Wales

    In Wales UKIP tended to take Labour rather than Tory votes in 2015.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,924
    justin124 said:

    I don't accept the premise of the article - that how people voted in last June's Referendum will have a significant bearing on how they vote in a general election in 2020. Last week's by elections suggested that Brexit has already ceased to be a key salient issue. It is also often forgotten that a considerable proportion voted one way or the other in June 2016 with little enthusiasm - or indeed insight.

    I can't seriously believe anyone thinks that Brexit has "ceased to be a salient issue". We haven't exited yet, hell we haven't even pressed the start button. Brexit and its consequences will dominate UK politics for the next decade.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    PlatoSaid said:

    BBC Archive
    #OTD 1958: Prince Phillip was challenged to a Tiddlywinks game by Cambridge University. He dispatched his Royal Champions, The Goons https://t.co/CFjSXvq4Lq

    I do hope this makes it into Season 2 of The Crown. I doubt it somehow.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    What's French for 'faffing about'?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    OllyT said:

    justin124 said:

    I don't accept the premise of the article - that how people voted in last June's Referendum will have a significant bearing on how they vote in a general election in 2020. Last week's by elections suggested that Brexit has already ceased to be a key salient issue. It is also often forgotten that a considerable proportion voted one way or the other in June 2016 with little enthusiasm - or indeed insight.

    I can't seriously believe anyone thinks that Brexit has "ceased to be a salient issue". We haven't exited yet, hell we haven't even pressed the start button. Brexit and its consequences will dominate UK politics for the next decade.
    Where I think OllyT is right is that how people voted in 2016 (and therefore analysis of which areas are for Leave) will have little salience. Opinion will shift.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    F1: Canada has a new deal to 2029. Very good news.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428

    What's French for 'faffing about'?

    Don't think they understand the concept.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    edited March 2017

    What's French for 'faffing about'?

    Se faffabouter?
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    OllyT said:

    justin124 said:

    I don't accept the premise of the article - that how people voted in last June's Referendum will have a significant bearing on how they vote in a general election in 2020. Last week's by elections suggested that Brexit has already ceased to be a key salient issue. It is also often forgotten that a considerable proportion voted one way or the other in June 2016 with little enthusiasm - or indeed insight.

    I can't seriously believe anyone thinks that Brexit has "ceased to be a salient issue". We haven't exited yet, hell we haven't even pressed the start button. Brexit and its consequences will dominate UK politics for the next decade.
    There was not much sign of it in Copeland and Stoke last week - unless the collapse in the UKIP vote at Copeland to the Tories' advantage is cited as such. Even there , I would strongly suspect that nuclear power and Corbyn were more significant.
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    wasdwasd Posts: 276
    PlatoSaid said:

    Golly

    DC Clothesline
    It Begins: Wendy’s Installs Robots in 1,000 Stores to Counter Minimum Wage https://t.co/Doxs2CvUr4 https://t.co/zLyZYhv5Z3

    The McDonald's near Birmingham New Street has had them since before Christmas.
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Fillon has talked with both Sarkozy and Juppé.
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited March 2017
    OllyT said:

    justin124 said:

    I don't accept the premise of the article - that how people voted in last June's Referendum will have a significant bearing on how they vote in a general election in 2020. Last week's by elections suggested that Brexit has already ceased to be a key salient issue. It is also often forgotten that a considerable proportion voted one way or the other in June 2016 with little enthusiasm - or indeed insight.

    I can't seriously believe anyone thinks that Brexit has "ceased to be a salient issue". We haven't exited yet, hell we haven't even pressed the start button. Brexit and its consequences will dominate UK politics for the next decade.
    Most voters dont know who their MP is until they start getting leaflets at the start of the short campaign, you over estimate how much most people care about the whole BrExit thing now the referendum has passed.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Mr. Evershed, thou art a bloody jester! I'll not have ye saying I'm outdated, forsooth.


    Either outdated or American. Which is the worse epithet?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Evershed, I'm a traditionalist, you bounder (I use the term 'huntress' quite a lot in books with Anja).
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    wasd said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Golly

    DC Clothesline
    It Begins: Wendy’s Installs Robots in 1,000 Stores to Counter Minimum Wage https://t.co/Doxs2CvUr4 https://t.co/zLyZYhv5Z3

    The McDonald's near Birmingham New Street has had them since before Christmas.
    and a lot of the McDonald's in California I hear... the $15/hr minimum wage being introduced in some states has put a rocket up the automation roll-out.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    Fillon talking now.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    He's on!
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:

    justin124 said:

    I don't accept the premise of the article - that how people voted in last June's Referendum will have a significant bearing on how they vote in a general election in 2020. Last week's by elections suggested that Brexit has already ceased to be a key salient issue. It is also often forgotten that a considerable proportion voted one way or the other in June 2016 with little enthusiasm - or indeed insight.

    I can't seriously believe anyone thinks that Brexit has "ceased to be a salient issue". We haven't exited yet, hell we haven't even pressed the start button. Brexit and its consequences will dominate UK politics for the next decade.
    There was not much sign of it in Copeland and Stoke last week - unless the collapse in the UKIP vote at Copeland to the Tories' advantage is cited as such. Even there , I would strongly suspect that nuclear power and Corbyn were more significant.
    My view is somewhere between the two of you. I think most people have moved on. Most people are turned off by politics in general, though they may be briefly animated by particular issues. But those who haven't moved on are disproportionately represented among those who professionally opine about politics - so the noise of Brexit will continue to reverberate for a while yet.
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    felix said:

    So it begins. The DM battle against any kind of death duty to pay for social care:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4269840/SARAH-VINE-wanted-death-taxes-d-vote-communist.html#ixzz4a3ZHmhjM

    Not just the Daily Mail but the wife of Michael Gove.

    Given how influential she was in the Tory leadership contest and the slenderness of the Tory majority, be very afraid Mrs May.
    Perhaps Mrs Gove can ask her husband to come up with another way of raising the billions needed for social care with an ageing population.
    How about taxing (say over £30k) the lump sums from pensions?
    DavidL said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Corbyn & McDonnell reaching out to SWP, that will work for them.

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/836869298748534784

    Tory 17 point lead.

    Farron also going nowhere.

    All completely MOE of course but the consolidation of the UKIP vote into the Tories appears to continue. This is a very positive trend for May and threatens to put her onto the largest share of the vote for any party for a considerable time. I do think people are underestimating the implications of this in the same way that many underestimated the SNP prior to 2015.
    I'd be interested in the polling for Scotland.
    Sounds like a prelude to 40 years of one party rule in England. Aaargh.

    Precedents: Sweden (SDP 1932-76) and in a way South Africa (National Party 1948-94).

    Sweden had its one-party state under PR, too. SDP had to get 50-55%, not just 35-40% for May. If she matches the voting efficiency of Labour 2005 and the constituencies are equalised she'll be home and dry on 35%.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Sounds like judges are after him...
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,795
    edited March 2017
    justin124 said:

    I don't accept the premise of the article - that how people voted in last June's Referendum will have a significant bearing on how they vote in a general election in 2020. Last week's by elections suggested that Brexit has already ceased to be a key salient issue. It is also often forgotten that a considerable proportion voted one way or the other in June 2016 with little enthusiasm - or indeed insight.

    There is a mixture of Leavers and Remainers everywhere, including Copeland. Leavers mostly vote Conservative or UKIP and Remainers mostly vote Labour or Lib Dem. The Conservatives will win almost everywhere as long as they can hoover up most of the Leaver votes and those votes are bigger than for the next largest party. That dynamic will change if more Remainers vote Conservative or Leavers vote Labour or Lib Dem. But as long as the more than 70% Brexit support/Party vote correlation holds, the Conservatives are sitting pretty.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Curiouser & curiouser - although the public oppose Mrs Clennell's deportation by a margin of more than 3:1, the chronology is not quite what initially appeared:

    1988 – Arrives in the UK

    1990 – Marries her husband John Clennell, a British citizen

    1992 – Given indefinite leave to remain in UK

    Later in 1992 – Moves to Singapore with her husband

    1994 – Having lived outside the UK for more than two years, Mrs Clennell’s indefinite leave to remain lapses

    1998 – Mrs Clennell’s husband and children return to the UK. Mrs Clennell remains in Singapore to care for her ill parents, although she would come back to the UK several times for short visits

    2003- 2005 – Lives in Britain and makes numerous applications for leave to remain, all of which are rejected

    2007 – Refused permission to enter the UK and is turned back from a UK airport

    2012 – Makes another application at the British High Commission in Singapore, which is rejected on the basis that she did not provide proof of contact with her family

    2013-2016 – Re-enters the UK and makes further applications for leave to remain. Again, all are rejected.

    Early February 2017 – Mrs Clennell is taken to a Scottish detention centre

    25 February 2017 – Mrs Clennell is deported to Singapore


    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/01/deporting-irene-clennell-was-wrong-say-nearly-two-/

    So in the last 29 years Mrs Clennell has spent about 8 years in the UK and 21 in Singapore.....
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited March 2017
    Fillon: "The rule of law has been violated systematically".
    This is a "political assassination".
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Sounds like judges are after him...

    He certainly thinks so, playing the victim card
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    What's French for 'faffing about'?

    I noticed the BBC today using the term 'political pabulum' for faffing about.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Looks like he might fight on...
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Juppe zooming out on BF.
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    Not resigning then
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    "I will not withdraw"
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Bloody Fillon.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    Unbelievable.
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    wasdwasd Posts: 276

    wasd said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Golly

    DC Clothesline
    It Begins: Wendy’s Installs Robots in 1,000 Stores to Counter Minimum Wage https://t.co/Doxs2CvUr4 https://t.co/zLyZYhv5Z3

    The McDonald's near Birmingham New Street has had them since before Christmas.
    and a lot of the McDonald's in California I hear... the $15/hr minimum wage being introduced in some states has put a rocket up the automation roll-out.
    TBH I expect the minimum wage increase only accelerated any such rollout by 6 or 12 months.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    As you were everyone. A truly Malcolm Tucker morning.
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited March 2017
    "France is bigger than my mistakes".

    Only yesterday I read Lillian Glass's book on the body language of liars. Fillon kept licking his lips and opening his eyes wide.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Can his party axe him as candidate, or is this it?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Not an ideal position for a presidential campaign...
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,428
    Marie Le Conte‏ @youngvulgarian 2m2 minutes ago
    More
    That sound you can hear is Macron and his people cheering and popping champagne in their HQ.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369
    edited March 2017
    Very defiant statement - playing the victim card
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited March 2017

    Curiouser & curiouser - although the public oppose Mrs Clennell's deportation by a margin of more than 3:1, the chronology is not quite what initially appeared:

    ... chronology snipped ...

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/01/deporting-irene-clennell-was-wrong-say-nearly-two-/

    So in the last 29 years Mrs Clennell has spent about 8 years in the UK and 21 in Singapore.....

    2003- 2005 – Lives in Britain and makes numerous applications for leave to remain, all of which are rejected

    This is the killer though, she has no ILR, so she is in the UK without a visa, almost any country in the world will throw you out on the spot, and certainly refuse to entertain any new applications, if you have stayed without a visa.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    Juste encore une minute juste encore une minute
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Well, bugger. I'd gotten nicely green on Juppe and Baroin, and that French Corbyn has just refused to resign like a decent fellow.

    I'm not down at all, but still miffed.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,075
    Interesting times in France.

    In other news, there's been some progress in the Corrie Mckeague case:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39125866
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    Marie Le Conte‏ @youngvulgarian 2m2 minutes ago
    More
    That sound you can hear is Macron and his people cheering and popping champagne in their HQ.

    Macron is the next target.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited March 2017

    Very defiant statement - playing the victim card

    It may work.

    I'm not going to be laying him off @ 5/1. Arguably, he's value to back at those odds.

    I think.

    I'm not confident I have enough of a grasp of French politics to be properly betting on it, though.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited March 2017
    I assume everything is agenda driven these days.

    The anti-Semitism bomb threats and badly drawn swastikas just look like obvious coordinated false flags. When a neo Nazi can't get a swastika right, and dozens of attacks appear from nowhere...

    It's poisonous propaganda and I hope it stops pronto.

    The MSM hate storm of Trump is incredible. And they are destroying themselves.

    I expect the media war to continue for a while. They're fighting for audience share and their political ideology. Trying to shut down PewDiePie was just an example of their behaviour re new media threats.

    YouTube have demonitised channels, including even the Rubin Report intv about Mohammed cartoons. Infowars has lost over $3m in ad revenue this month.

    If you believe in free speech and debating ideas, the use of wallet censorship should worry you.
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    Juste encore une minute juste encore une minute

    Donnez-moi un break ;)
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    edited March 2017

    Curiouser & curiouser - although the public oppose Mrs Clennell's deportation by a margin of more than 3:1, the chronology is not quite what initially appeared:

    ... chronology snipped ...

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/01/deporting-irene-clennell-was-wrong-say-nearly-two-/

    So in the last 29 years Mrs Clennell has spent about 8 years in the UK and 21 in Singapore.....

    2003- 2005 – Lives in Britain and makes numerous applications for leave to remain, all of which are rejected

    This is the killer though, she has no ILR, so she is in the UK without a visa, almost any country in the world will throw you out on the spot, and certainly refuse to entertain any new applications, if you have stayed without a visa.
    This also struck me as curious:

    2007 – Refused permission to enter the UK and is turned back from a UK airport

    2012 – Makes another application at the British High Commission in Singapore, which is rejected on the basis that she did not provide proof of contact with her family

    If the chronology is complete that's a five year gap away from her family, which may be why the British High Commission rejected [it] on the basis that she did not provide proof of contact with her family
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    dr_spyn said:
    Going to be interesting if its a Fillon-MLP second round and he gets indicted!
This discussion has been closed.