Seems counter productive of her if a version of his amendment is sent back to the Commons and there are possibly enough remainer rebels, plus maybe a few furious May misled those rebels.
I'm sure he'll have plenty of prepared attack lines from Ali Campbell and Tony Blair by then...
I'd love to be in that audience and call him a traitor and watch him bluster. His masters are in Brussels.
He's wrong, but I doubt if he's in the employ of a foreign power.
The others I believe are just a bit misguided, Grieve is far too smart not to realise that all of his actions are strengthening the hand of our opponent and weakening our own. His motivations are suspect. Personally I think a healthy dose of McCarthyism to root out all of those working on behalf of Brussels would be useful.
I agree that Grieve is trying his hardest to weaken the government's hand. Were I on the Executive of his association, I'd certainly want to remove him. But, I think that allegations of treason should not be made lightly.
Precisely because no one takes them remotely seriously, we might as well fling them around.
In a democracy, the people are Sovereign. They expressed a will and he is now exerting any and every influence and power he has to thwart that will.
If the people were sovereign the referendum would have been binding (and required a lot more clarity over what specifically Leave meant). We remain a representative democracy, with the MPs to interpret the best way to give effect to the direction we gave them. That system has many strengths, but will also mean some of those representatives will be free to try to reject that public direction (which can be a strength if the public will has changed significantly though in this case it is still so close).
I'm much in favour of expanding it as a term so it is not restricted to one wing of politics (it does list examples for both) or a narrow scenario eg for communist nations.
I did too.
These sorts of views are adopted by people who do not bear (or think they will not bear) the consequences of the views they espouse.
This attitude was accurately described by the late Tony Judt:
“Totalitarianism of the Left, much like an earlier totalitarianism of the Right, was about violence and power and control, and it appealed because of these features, not in spite of them."
Too many people who claim to have principles such as anti-racism etc view these as akin to a coat you put on or discard, depending on context, but fundamentally there to show you off and to attack others. Rather than as a moral imperative which should guide their actions.
Hence the desire to shut down debate, attack those who disagree, make illegitimate the very idea of honest disagreement.
And therefore too many such people believe any old rubbish if it will enable them to control others.
"Mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed but in every case it is someone else's blood . That is why some of our thinkers feel free to say just about anything." (Albert Camus)
Seems counter productive of her if a version of his amendment is sent back to the Commons and there are possibly enough remainer rebels, plus maybe a few furious May misled those rebels.
I think she knows she has the numbers and Grieve and co , fold very easily. Also reality has at last hit her, upset 10 to 15 or piss of the rest.
I'm sure he'll have plenty of prepared attack lines from Ali Campbell and Tony Blair by then...
I'd love to be in that audience and call him a traitor and watch him bluster. His masters are in Brussels.
He's wrong, but I doubt if he's in the employ of a foreign power.
The others I believe are just a bit misguided, Grieve is far too smart not to realise that all of his actions are strengthening the hand of our opponent and weakening our own. His motivations are suspect. Personally I think a healthy dose of McCarthyism to root out all of those working on behalf of Brussels would be useful.
Says the man whose side was balls deep in with Russia.
You're overcompensating, you're the traitor mate.
Before you know you'll be paying your taxes in a foreign country instead of the Exchequer.
Has May just tried to shaft the remainer rebels and thereby set her self up for another cliff edge next week? Or am I missing some twist?
I think there are about 15-20 Tory rebels including Sourby and Clarke.
Sourby? Freudian slip?
I must say I don't really know how many of these rebels there are supposed to be - I know rebels will always talk up their numbers, but outside the most recalcitrant trio of Clarke, Grieve and Soubry I cannot think of any off the top of my head, so most will be less prominent even if there are 15-20 I assume.
Soubry, Morgan, Wollaston, Djanogly, Hammond, Allen, Lefroy, Neill, Grieve, Clarke, Sandbach, Heald, Spelman, Masterton and allegedly more still to come out.
You do wonder if the whips feel they have the numbers to defeat Grieve et al
If they did presumably May would not have felt the need to mislead the rebels in the first place/been so vague and muddled that they allowed themselves to be misled (delete as appropriate).
Perhaps they did not know how many labour rebels they might get on board, and will feel more confident in not needing to mollify Grieve and co (or at least some of them,a couple clearly are never going to be on board)
Has May just tried to shaft the remainer rebels and thereby set her self up for another cliff edge next week? Or am I missing some twist?
I think there are about 15-20 Tory rebels including Sourby and Clarke.
Sourby? Freudian slip?
I must say I don't really know how many of these rebels there are supposed to be - I know rebels will always talk up their numbers, but outside the most recalcitrant trio of Clarke, Grieve and Soubry I cannot think of any off the top of my head, so most will be less prominent even if there are 15-20 I assume.
Soubry, Morgan, Wollaston, Djanogly, Hammond, Allen, Lefroy, Neill, Grieve, Clarke, Sandbach, Heald, Spelman, Masterton and allegedly more still to come out.
Morgan co wrote the government amendment and supported it, would be difficult for her to go back on that now. Sandbach and Wollaston are in the same basket also. Allen, Grieve, Clarke and Soubry are the four I'd say are certain to rebel against anything that takes us out of the EU. The rest are bidable to a certain degree.
Has May just tried to shaft the remainer rebels and thereby set her self up for another cliff edge next week? Or am I missing some twist?
I think there are about 15-20 Tory rebels including Sourby and Clarke.
Sourby? Freudian slip?
I must say I don't really know how many of these rebels there are supposed to be - I know rebels will always talk up their numbers, but outside the most recalcitrant trio of Clarke, Grieve and Soubry I cannot think of any off the top of my head, so most will be less prominent even if there are 15-20 I assume.
Soubry, Morgan, Wollaston, Djanogly, Hammond, Allen, Lefroy, Neill, Grieve, Clarke, Sandbach, Heald, Spelman, Masterton and allegedly more still to come out.
Many Cons MPs are furious with the current leadership but simply do not vote against their own government. It’s one reason I think JRM et al have kept quiet.
I can’t see those MPs changing unless there is substantive movement towards a hard Brexit by May.
You do wonder if the whips feel they have the numbers to defeat Grieve et al
If they did presumably May would not have felt the need to mislead the rebels in the first place/been so vague and muddled that they allowed themselves to be misled (delete as appropriate).
Perhaps they did not know how many labour rebels they might get on board, and will feel more confident in not needing to mollify Grieve and co (or at least some of them,a couple clearly are never going to be on board)
I may have this wrong but didn't 15 labour rebels vote against the EEA.
That is as many labour rebels as conservative ones
My hazy impression had been that the remainer rebels felt they'd be promised more than that, so whether they are reasonable or not I can see why they feel this does not meet what they were apparently promised.
My hazy impression had been that the remainer rebels felt they'd be promised more than that, so whether they are reasonable or not I can see why they feel this does not meet what they were apparently promised.
Another view is that the Remainers have been claiming that they don’t want to stop Brexit but are now objecting that they can’t.
Has May just tried to shaft the remainer rebels and thereby set her self up for another cliff edge next week? Or am I missing some twist?
I think there are about 15-20 Tory rebels including Sourby and Clarke.
Sourby? Freudian slip?
I must say I don't really know how many of these rebels there are supposed to be - I know rebels will always talk up their numbers, but outside the most recalcitrant trio of Clarke, Grieve and Soubry I cannot think of any off the top of my head, so most will be less prominent even if there are 15-20 I assume.
Soubry, Morgan, Wollaston, Djanogly, Hammond, Allen, Lefroy, Neill, Grieve, Clarke, Sandbach, Heald, Spelman, Masterton and allegedly more still to come out.
Morgan co wrote the government amendment and supported it, would be difficult for her to go back on that now. Sandbach and Wollaston are in the same basket also. Allen, Grieve, Clarke and Soubry are the four I'd say are certain to rebel against anything that takes us out of the EU. The rest are bidable to a certain degree.
Not the final version as I understand it. I agree some are biddable. Others haven't come out yet but will now better understand Grieve's issue , namely to prevent a no deal outcome that would be disastrous for the country and could happen by accident or negligence. A process is needed to prevent that. Taking back control.
My hazy impression had been that the remainer rebels felt they'd be promised more than that, so whether they are reasonable or not I can see why they feel this does not meet what they were apparently promised.
Another view is that the Remainers have been claiming that they don’t want to stop Brexit but are now objecting that they can’t.
That's why I added the 'reasonable or not' caveat. But whether they wanted to be able to stop Brexit and could not under this, the question is whether what they were promised matches what has been offered, and it doesn't sound like it, therefore they claim to have been misled and have no reason to play nice ever again.
You do wonder if the whips feel they have the numbers to defeat Grieve et al
If they did presumably May would not have felt the need to mislead the rebels in the first place/been so vague and muddled that they allowed themselves to be misled (delete as appropriate).
Perhaps they did not know how many labour rebels they might get on board, and will feel more confident in not needing to mollify Grieve and co (or at least some of them,a couple clearly are never going to be on board)
I may have this wrong but didn't 15 labour rebels vote against the EEA.
That is as many labour rebels as conservative ones
EEA is a different issue to meaningful vote and avoiding a no deal outcome. There were only five Labour rebels on the meaningful vote amendment.
Well, May is once again showing the EU that she cannot be trusted. Not sure that’s going to help move things along.
We've been repeatedly told they will not shift from their red lines and that our proposals so far have been rejected, so it seems like it would hardly matter since they won't budge regardless.
My hazy impression had been that the remainer rebels felt they'd be promised more than that, so whether they are reasonable or not I can see why they feel this does not meet what they were apparently promised.
Another view is that the Remainers have been claiming that they don’t want to stop Brexit but are now objecting that they can’t.
They are objecting that they can't stop a no deal outcome.
I'm sure he'll have plenty of prepared attack lines from Ali Campbell and Tony Blair by then...
I'd love to be in that audience and call him a traitor and watch him bluster. His masters are in Brussels.
Max I think you need to hold hard on the prosecco no matter how much you had on Russia to win.
Nyetimber not proseco please.
Good point Max is one of the few PBers who can afford Nyetimber.
Have to say, I'm not much into any kind of fizz. Unless it's a reasonably good lager!
Nyetimber is very good but quite spenny if you want to dip your toe in (metaphorically speaking).
I'll keep a look out this summer, under £100 per bottle or over?
Seriously, is it ever worth spending £100 on a bottle of wine - except to show off?
TOPPING previously suggested it was fairly expensive. £30-40 doesn't fall in the "expensive" category for wine.
I've been working my way through some Grange vintages, so I'd have to say yes, it is worth spending over £100 on wine.
Not sure my pallet is sophisticated enough tbh. Plus, as a poor pensioner...
I'm going to stick to my Saint Clair Pioneer Block 14 PN, which at about £20 a bottle is very lovely, and highly recommended.
Not much of a white wine drinker but I'll add it to the Waitrose order if they've got it. If you go to Australia then I think one bottle of the Grange is a must have.
I never really got on with wine when I stuck to old world ones, it was only when I started to try Australian reds that I finally understood wine.
Thanks, I'm trying to de-Amazon my shopping habits. Found it on Waitrose for a bit more. Ordered some, will be in London this weekend as well.
A few years ago I happened to be in my regular London home-from-home, the Southwark Street Mercure, when they celebrated their anniversary (apparently that Mercure was the first in the country).
They laid on free Nytimber, oysters, and canapes all evening - definitely one of my best slumming it in a hotel on work duties experiences. I thought it was a very nice touch to choose English fizz, and it's certainly as good as many Champagnes.
Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.
Time for Grieve and Sour-by 's constituency chairpersons to have word in their shell like.
Soubry's constituency has had strongly pro-EU MPs for 40 years (Soubry/me/Lester) - it is simply not a deselectable issue there. *I'm* probably the least pro-EU of the three and I'm in favour of eventually becoming a single country (I do concede it's not perfect!). The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm, and UKIP et al have never got anywhere there.
I'm sure he'll have plenty of prepared attack lines from Ali Campbell and Tony Blair by then...
I'd love to be in that audience and call him a traitor and watch him bluster. His masters are in Brussels.
Max I think you need to hold hard on the prosecco no matter how much you had on Russia to win.
Nyetimber not proseco please.
Good point Max is one of the few PBers who can afford Nyetimber.
Have to say, I'm not much into any kind of fizz. Unless it's a reasonably good lager!
Nyetimber is very good but quite spenny if you want to dip your toe in (metaphorically speaking).
I'll keep a look out this summer, under £100 per bottle or over?
Seriously, is it ever worth spending £100 on a bottle of wine - except to show off?
TOPPING previously suggested it was fairly expensive. £30-40 doesn't fall in the "expensive" category for wine.
I've been working my way through some Grange vintages, so I'd have to say yes, it is worth spending over £100 on wine.
Not sure my pallet is sophisticated enough tbh. Plus, as a poor pensioner...
I'm going to stick to my Saint Clair Pioneer Block 14 PN, which at about £20 a bottle is very lovely, and highly recommended.
Not much of a white wine drinker but I'll add it to the Waitrose order if they've got it. If you go to Australia then I think one bottle of the Grange is a must have.
I never really got on with wine when I stuck to old world ones, it was only when I started to try Australian reds that I finally understood wine.
The Saint Clair's a red (PN - Pinot Noir) though they do have a very drinkable sauvignon blanc too.
The Remainers cannot stop NO DEAL in any event. If there is no agreed withdrawal treaty then we are taken out via A50. Some politicians are deluded into thinking that they have power to influence when they do not.
So how else do you explain his inexplicable "not-EEA" amendment which sunk any chance of Parliament passing the actual EEA amendment? He ensured that there is literally no chance of the country staying in the single market with that move.
On the current path the UK will be in the single market in April 2019 so being absolutist about the EEA can lead you to the wrong conclusions.
If one thing is clear from this week, the 200 vote majority in the Commons to leave the EEA ensures we will not be in the single market beyond the transition period
It merely ensures that having cake and eating it remains the government's position but it has no bearing on which way things will ultimately fall.
A Canada style FTA remains the endpoint
A Canada style FTA is incompatible with the promise to have no border between GB and NI and incompatible with any number of other promises the government has made. It's merely a slogan, not a position.
Every result is incompatible with a no border promise. That promise is stupid and will not stand.
You think there will be a border btwn RoI and NI?
Yes. What form it will take I have no idea but since we will be leaving the SM there will be a border.
There is a hard border sign between Scotland and England.
Big aluminium thing with with "Welcome to Scotland" on it.
There's also "Croeso i Gymru!" at the western end of the Severn Rail Tunnel
Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.
Time for Grieve and Sour-by 's constituency chairpersons to have word in their shell like.
Soubry's constituency has had strongly pro-EU MPs for 40 years (Soubry/me/Lester) - it is simply not a deselectable issue there. *I'm* probably the least pro-EU of the three and I'm in favour of eventually becoming a single country (I do concede it's not perfect!). The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm, and UKIP et al have never got anywhere there.
Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.
Time for Grieve and Sour-by 's constituency chairpersons to have word in their shell like.
Soubry's constituency has had strongly pro-EU MPs for 40 years (Soubry/me/Lester) - it is simply not a deselectable issue there. *I'm* probably the least pro-EU of the three and I'm in favour of eventually becoming a single country (I do concede it's not perfect!). The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm, and UKIP et al have never got anywhere there.
You're in favour of becoming a single COUNTRY ?!
Not sure why if such a utopian vision is desirable for someone it should stop at Europe, ,frankly.
The Remainers cannot stop NO DEAL in any event. If there is no agreed withdrawal treaty then we are taken out via A50. Some politicians are deluded into thinking that they have power to influence when they do not.
The EU doesn't have much of a history of following the rules when they're inconvenient.
As much as I'd love a no deal result, they'd be some sort of ultra vires fudge cooked up in the week before if required to create a bit more time.
Nyetimber is very good, although having said that I've been a bit disappointed with the last couple of bottles I've tried. What really did impress me though was their rosé. I was served it before a posh dinner, and I was bowled over by it, without knowing what it was to start with. As a general rule of thumb, rosé fizz/champagne is almost invariably worse than the equivalent white, but this was a noble exception.
Of course, Nyetimber no longer has the field to itself - there are hundred of champagne-style English sparkling wines now, and many of them are excellent.
Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.
Time for Grieve and Sour-by 's constituency chairpersons to have word in their shell like.
Soubry's constituency has had strongly pro-EU MPs for 40 years (Soubry/me/Lester) - it is simply not a deselectable issue there. *I'm* probably the least pro-EU of the three and I'm in favour of eventually becoming a single country (I do concede it's not perfect!). The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm, and UKIP et al have never got anywhere there.
You're in favour of becoming a single COUNTRY ?!
Not sure why if such a utopian vision is desirable for someone it should stop at Europe, ,frankly.
Nous sommes tous les fils et filles de Charlemagne
Nyetimber is very good, although having said that I've been a bit disappointed with the last couple of bottles I've tried. What really did impress me though was their rosé. I was served it before a posh dinner, and I was bowled over by it, without knowing what it was to start with. As a general rule of thumb, rosé fizz/champagne is almost invariably worse than the equivalent white, but this was a noble exception.
Of course, Nyetimber no longer has the field to itself - there are hundred of champagne-style English sparkling wines now, and many of them are excellent.
Have you ever tried Renishaw Hall ?
I've got a bottle I was thinking of opening on Sunday but would like to know what to expect.
Has May just tried to shaft the remainer rebels and thereby set her self up for another cliff edge next week? Or am I missing some twist?
Another cliff edge next week.
On Monday the Lords will add the Grieve amendment and send it back to the Commons. On Wednesday the Commons will vote on it. This time Grieve and co won't be fooled by last minute offers on the floor of the house or by the PM in her office behind the Speaker's chair.
Last time the Government had a majority of 28. There were two Tory rebels (Soubry and Clarke) and five Labour rebels (Stringer, Hoey, Campbell, Field and Mann).
I think there are about 15-20 Tory rebels including Sourby and Clarke. They need 16 for a dead heat (assuming no more labour rebels). It will be tight.
EDIT: I forgot the new Lewisham MP. 16 for Grieve to win. I think he will.
16 is a lot to vote against, as opposed to abstaining. My guess is that the government will edge it (Kelvin Hopkins also voted with them).
Nyetimber is very good, although having said that I've been a bit disappointed with the last couple of bottles I've tried. What really did impress me though was their rosé. I was served it before a posh dinner, and I was bowled over by it, without knowing what it was to start with. As a general rule of thumb, rosé fizz/champagne is almost invariably worse than the equivalent white, but this was a noble exception.
Of course, Nyetimber no longer has the field to itself - there are hundred of champagne-style English sparkling wines now, and many of them are excellent.
Have you ever tried Renishaw Hall ?
I've got a bottle I was thinking of opening on Sunday but would like to know what to expect.
Didn't realise Renishaw Hall produced a wine ! I can vouch for the quality of the gardens though - well worth a visit if you're ever in the northern midlands.
Nyetimber is very good, although having said that I've been a bit disappointed with the last couple of bottles I've tried. What really did impress me though was their rosé. I was served it before a posh dinner, and I was bowled over by it, without knowing what it was to start with. As a general rule of thumb, rosé fizz/champagne is almost invariably worse than the equivalent white, but this was a noble exception.
Of course, Nyetimber no longer has the field to itself - there are hundred of champagne-style English sparkling wines now, and many of them are excellent.
Have you ever tried Renishaw Hall ?
I've got a bottle I was thinking of opening on Sunday but would like to know what to expect.
Nyetimber is very good, although having said that I've been a bit disappointed with the last couple of bottles I've tried. What really did impress me though was their rosé. I was served it before a posh dinner, and I was bowled over by it, without knowing what it was to start with. As a general rule of thumb, rosé fizz/champagne is almost invariably worse than the equivalent white, but this was a noble exception.
Of course, Nyetimber no longer has the field to itself - there are hundred of champagne-style English sparkling wines now, and many of them are excellent.
Have you ever tried Renishaw Hall ?
I've got a bottle I was thinking of opening on Sunday but would like to know what to expect.
No, I haven't tried that one. Please report back!
I've just put it in the fridge.
Its from Derbyshire and I was intrigued as to what wine from so far north would be like.
Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.
Time for Grieve and Sour-by 's constituency chairpersons to have word in their shell like.
Soubry's constituency has had strongly pro-EU MPs for 40 years (Soubry/me/Lester) - it is simply not a deselectable issue there. *I'm* probably the least pro-EU of the three and I'm in favour of eventually becoming a single country (I do concede it's not perfect!). The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm, and UKIP et al have never got anywhere there.
You're in favour of becoming a single COUNTRY ?!
Not sure why if such a utopian vision is desirable for someone it should stop at Europe, ,frankly.
Nous sommes tous les fils et filles de Charlemagne
But, nous ne sommes pas. Charlemagne’s realm never crossed the Channel.
Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.
Time for Grieve and Sour-by 's constituency chairpersons to have word in their shell like.
Soubry's constituency has had strongly pro-EU MPs for 40 years (Soubry/me/Lester) - it is simply not a deselectable issue there. *I'm* probably the least pro-EU of the three and I'm in favour of eventually becoming a single country (I do concede it's not perfect!). The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm, and UKIP et al have never got anywhere there.
You're in favour of becoming a single COUNTRY ?!
Yes - I've lived half my life on the Continent and think the perception of differences is vastly exagerrated. There are more cultural differences between, say, London and Haslemere than between London and Vienna or between Haslemere and rural Denmark (and I've lived in all of them).
But I think it should be gradual, over say 50 years, with more and more shared competence over time. The day of the nation state trying to influence matters on its own is fading, as even Trump will discover.
Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.
Time for Grieve and Sour-by 's constituency chairpersons to have word in their shell like.
The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm
How do you judge that? Are there seats which voted Leave by the same proportion, but with greater enthusiasm?
I just don't know how that enthusiasm is measured.
By the lack of questions about Europe at all the hustings events, and by the low support for Referendum and UKIP at successive elections. The subject just rarely came up.
Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.
Time for Grieve and Sour-by 's constituency chairpersons to have word in their shell like.
Soubry's constituency has had strongly pro-EU MPs for 40 years (Soubry/me/Lester) - it is simply not a deselectable issue there. *I'm* probably the least pro-EU of the three and I'm in favour of eventually becoming a single country (I do concede it's not perfect!). The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm, and UKIP et al have never got anywhere there.
You're in favour of becoming a single COUNTRY ?!
Yes - I've lived half my life on the Continent and think the perception of differences is vastly exagerrated. There are more cultural differences between, say, London and Haslemere than between London and Vienna or between Haslemere and rural Denmark (and I've lived in all of them).
But I think it should be gradual, over say 50 years, with more and more shared competence over time. The day of the nation state trying to influence matters on its own is fading, as even Trump will discover.
Does Soubry want a federal Europe? Wanting to stay in the EU is one thing...
Comments
These sorts of views are adopted by people who do not bear (or think they will not bear) the consequences of the views they espouse.
This attitude was accurately described by the late Tony Judt:
“Totalitarianism of the Left, much like an earlier totalitarianism of the Right, was about violence and power and control, and it appealed because of these features, not in spite of them."
Too many people who claim to have principles such as anti-racism etc view these as akin to a coat you put on or discard, depending on context, but fundamentally there to show you off and to attack others. Rather than as a moral imperative which should guide their actions.
Hence the desire to shut down debate, attack those who disagree, make illegitimate the very idea of honest disagreement.
And therefore too many such people believe any old rubbish if it will enable them to control others.
"Mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed but in every case it is someone else's blood . That is why some of our thinkers feel free to say just about anything." (Albert Camus)
I like your thinking.
Also reality has at last hit her, upset 10 to 15 or piss of the rest.
Tipped at 100/1 and 66/1
Perhaps they did not know how many labour rebels they might get on board, and will feel more confident in not needing to mollify Grieve and co (or at least some of them,a couple clearly are never going to be on board)
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1007314866732978178
I can’t see those MPs changing unless there is substantive movement towards a hard Brexit by May.
That is as many labour rebels as conservative ones
I can't see them getting beyond the quarters though (which someone will no doubt remind me of when they pick up the trophy
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1007315670734958592?s=20
(It probably would actually, if the others are anything to go by.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nyetimber-Classic-Cuvee-Sparkling-Wine/dp/B00VPVT79I/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1528998241&sr=8-1&keywords=nyetimber
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1007317922908463104?s=20
I've been working my way through some Grange vintages, so I'd have to say yes, it is worth spending over £100 on wine.
I'm going to stick to my Saint Clair Pioneer Block 14 PN, which at about £20 a bottle is very lovely, and highly recommended.
https://twitter.com/albertonardelli/status/1007271918171512833?s=21
Unfortunately I have a credit balance with them and they keep offering me 'deposit £40 get an extra £10 free'.
I never really got on with wine when I stuck to old world ones, it was only when I started to try Australian reds that I finally understood wine.
If we’re talking expensive wines that’s a completely different conversation. And @rcs1000 good luck with getting a bottle of Angelus for £100!
They laid on free Nytimber, oysters, and canapes all evening - definitely one of my best slumming it in a hotel on work duties experiences. I thought it was a very nice touch to choose English fizz, and it's certainly as good as many Champagnes.
It is past the final whistle tbh
I just don't know how that enthusiasm is measured.
As much as I'd love a no deal result, they'd be some sort of ultra vires fudge cooked up in the week before if required to create a bit more time.
Of course, Nyetimber no longer has the field to itself - there are hundred of champagne-style English sparkling wines now, and many of them are excellent.
I've got a bottle I was thinking of opening on Sunday but would like to know what to expect.
I can vouch for the quality of the gardens though - well worth a visit if you're ever in the northern midlands.
If negotiations have broken down, why would it be, regardless of what the Commons wanted?
I'll swap your 30 pints for 100 bottles.
Its from Derbyshire and I was intrigued as to what wine from so far north would be like.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6528525/leftie-lawyer-hired-by-labour-to-oversee-anti-semitism-cases-is-friends-with-anti-jewish-activists/
But I think it should be gradual, over say 50 years, with more and more shared competence over time. The day of the nation state trying to influence matters on its own is fading, as even Trump will discover.
Get the kids in and then join them later.