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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ruthless People. The Conservatives lose a leadership contender

SystemSystem Posts: 11,690
edited September 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ruthless People. The Conservatives lose a leadership contender

A pregnant Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson has told the Sunday Times she never wants to be prime minister, and opened up about her depression and suicidal thoughts — also pulling up her sleeve to show her self-harm scars. Wow. pic.twitter.com/2a6AigxUQj

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,869
    Afternoon all :)

    First-ish.
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    Second
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    Presumably she thinks that the civility of political discourse in Scotland is much higher, and so less likely to impact on her mental health?

    More seriously, it's a fair question but "it's much closer to home" is a fair answer.
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    I expect Ruth's decision will have been well received in Scotland which is bad news for Nicola with her problems and SLab led by a sassenach
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2018
    FTPT

    Alistair said:

    Nothing on Ruth Davison ruling herself out of a run for Conservative Leader though I see TSE?

    I tried writing a thread on that but I failed.

    What I wrote ended up being rather callous, or patronising, or somewhat cynical towards Ruth Davidson.

    It was very hard to get the right tone on such a moving and sensitive topic.

    Is for the same reasons I haven’t done a thread on Alex Salmond’s recent issues.
    Ruth Davidson has continued to build street credibility amongst the young especially in Scotland. She has so far been loyal to TM but clearly hates BJ. She is part of the reason that Boris will never by PM of the UK.
    In 2011 the final YouGov had Anabelle Goldie's Conservatives with 18% of the 18-24 year old vote. 2016 had Ruth, credibility amongst the young, with 15%.

    Ruth's Scottish base is Brexiters and Brexiters are old.
    Yeah, because Ruth is such a fan of Brexit.

    Pillock.
    Ruth being a fan of Brexit (an extremely malleable position depending on her audience) has nothing to do with who is actually voting for the Conservatives in Scotland. And the people who are voting for Conservatives in Scotland are older Brexit voters.

    Unless you have some penetrating insights that goes counter to the polling?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    A charismatic outsider with a winning track record

    Doing better than expected track record might be more appropriate.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I expect Ruth's decision will have been well received in Scotland which is bad news for Nicola with her problems and SLab led by a sassenach

    Leonard being English has zero affect on Slab. Leonard being an empty suit does.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,869
    Afternoon again all :)

    On topic, we'll see if Ruth Davidson's 2017 GE success translates into success at Holyrood for the Conservatives in 2021 but that's a very long way off with much water to flow under many bridges.

    To pick up on one of Alastair's points, May remains in charge not because there is no more talented or more capable alternative in the Conservative party but because of Jeremy Corbyn.

    Corbyn is such a polarising figure and engenders such fear and anxiety among non-Labour supporters they all stick like barnacles to the hull of SS Tory Party. If your reaction to the notion of Corbyn as Prime Minister is horror and/or nausea the only reasonable option to prevent it (currently) is to stick with the Conservatives.

    Would anyone else do any better ? There's no evidence to assume so and indeed most others would do worse which further strengthens May's position. If you are a Conservative backbench MP with a majority of less than 10,000 you'd be happy with polling showing the party doing about as well as 2017 because that means you and your majority are secure.

    If May were 10 points behind Labour and your majority was looking precarious whereas with Javid or Hunt or Johnson or JRM your majority would be safe you'd consider dropping May.

    If May were 10 points behind Labour and all other alternatives were 15-20 points behind, you'd stick with May.

    As long as a) she polls as well as 2017 and b) no one else is polling significantly better, May is safe.

    As Alastair says, Ruth Davidson has been courageous in speaking about some personally difficult topics and as part of the wider opening of the debate on mental health it is to be welcomed but was she ever a realistic candidate for Conservative Party leader ? Not now, not to be the next leader, the leader after next or the leader after that perhaps..
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    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Alistair said:

    Nothing on Ruth Davison ruling herself out of a run for Conservative Leader though I see TSE?

    I tried writing a thread on that but I failed.

    What I wrote ended up being rather callous, or patronising, or somewhat cynical towards Ruth Davidson.

    It was very hard to get the right tone on such a moving and sensitive topic.

    Is for the same reasons I haven’t done a thread on Alex Salmond’s recent issues.
    Ruth Davidson has continued to build street credibility amongst the young especially in Scotland. She has so far been loyal to TM but clearly hates BJ. She is part of the reason that Boris will never by PM of the UK.
    In 2011 the final YouGov had Anabelle Goldie's Conservatives with 18% of the 18-24 year old vote. 2016 had Ruth, credibility amongst the young, with 15%.

    Ruth's Scottish base is Brexiters and Brexiters are old.
    Yeah, because Ruth is such a fan of Brexit.

    Pillock.
    Ruth being a fan of Brexit (an extremely. Malleable position depending on her audience) has nothing to do with who is actually voting for the Conservatives in Scotland. And the people who are voting for Conservatives in Scotland are older Brexit voters.

    Unless you have some penetrating insights that goes counter to the polling?
    Also Ruth is a unionist
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    Alistair said:

    I expect Ruth's decision will have been well received in Scotland which is bad news for Nicola with her problems and SLab led by a sassenach

    Leonard being English has zero affect on Slab. Leonard being an empty suit does.
    Put both together and bingo
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Yes I feel the the final question posed by Alistair is quite difficult. If her past problems and even her current state preclude one great office of state surely they should apply to all. I am hugely proud of her achievements in Scotland but have struggled with her 'tell all' at the weekend. I was left feeling that she is clearly capable of tackling either p[osition with considerable success. However, with regard to the UK - she doesn't want to do it. The end.
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    The paywall buster strikes another blow:
    https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1041657571021606912
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    Scott_P said:
    That is not due to Brexit. It is all to do with the drive to trash diesels and move to electric. The car industry EU wide is facing a crisis
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    JohnRussellJohnRussell Posts: 297
    edited September 2018
    felix said:

    Yes I feel the the final question posed by Alistair is quite difficult. If her past problems and even her current state preclude one great office of state surely they should apply to all. I am hugely proud of her achievements in Scotland but have struggled with her 'tell all' at the weekend. I was left feeling that she is clearly capable of tackling either p[osition with considerable success. However, with regard to the UK - she doesn't want to do it. The end.

    I always wonder what we would make of a distant country with a chief strategist who had the PM's ear in matters such as the bombing other nations that was a self confessed manic depressive alcoholic
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Alistair said:

    Nothing on Ruth Davison ruling herself out of a run for Conservative Leader though I see TSE?

    I tried writing a thread on that but I failed.

    What I wrote ended up being rather callous, or patronising, or somewhat cynical towards Ruth Davidson.

    It was very hard to get the right tone on such a moving and sensitive topic.

    Is for the same reasons I haven’t done a thread on Alex Salmond’s recent issues.
    Ruth Davidson has continued to build street credibility amongst the young especially in Scotland. She has so far been loyal to TM but clearly hates BJ. She is part of the reason that Boris will never by PM of the UK.
    In 2011 the final YouGov had Anabelle Goldie's Conservatives with 18% of the 18-24 year old vote. 2016 had Ruth, credibility amongst the young, with 15%.

    Ruth's Scottish base is Brexiters and Brexiters are old.
    Yeah, because Ruth is such a fan of Brexit.

    Pillock.
    Ruth being a fan of Brexit (an extremely malleable position depending on her audience) has nothing to do with who is actually voting for the Conservatives in Scotland. And the people who are voting for Conservatives in Scotland are older Brexit voters.

    Unless you have some penetrating insights that goes counter to the polling?
    The Conservatives pick up the 25-30% who are both Unionists, and anti-EU,
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    Just received notice from our Council that from the 26th September we are going to enjoy 4 weekly bin collections.

    Come on those of you in England and match that !!!!
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Dalai Lama says ‘Europe belongs to the Europeans’ and suggests refugees return to native countries

    ‘Ultimately they should develop their own country,’ says spiritual leader"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dalai-lama-europe-refugee-crisis-immigration-eu-racism-tibet-buddhist-a8537221.html
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited September 2018
    Brexit breakdown part 1: Why are the Tories winning Walsall?

    https://youtu.be/DIIJc8N9Jpg
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    Yes I feel the the final question posed by Alistair is quite difficult. If her past problems and even her current state preclude one great office of state surely they should apply to all. I am hugely proud of her achievements in Scotland but have struggled with her 'tell all' at the weekend. I was left feeling that she is clearly capable of tackling either p[osition with considerable success. However, with regard to the UK - she doesn't want to do it. The end.

    I always wonder what we would make of a distant country with a chief strategist who had the PM's ear in matters such as the bombing other nations that was a self confessed manic depressive alcoholic
    Depends if the person IS or WAS in the condition you describe.
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    Two heavy blows in a week - first Ruth, now Alastair, rule themselves out.

    Whilst one is grateful to George Freeman for his selfless offer, I don't think it quite fills the gap.
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    Scott_P said:
    Outflanking the TUC, who only called for a 4 day week.
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    marke09marke09 Posts: 926

    Just received notice from our Council that from the 26th September we are going to enjoy 4 weekly bin collections.

    Come on those of you in England and match that !!!!

    does that include the food waste and recycling? Here in Ceredigion they talking of going 3 weekly but recycling will stay at weekly
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,712
    AndyJS said:

    "Dalai Lama says ‘Europe belongs to the Europeans’ and suggests refugees return to native countries

    ‘Ultimately they should develop their own country,’ says spiritual leader"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dalai-lama-europe-refugee-crisis-immigration-eu-racism-tibet-buddhist-a8537221.html

    He is of course a refugee himself, keen to return to a free Tibet, and to develop it!
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    marke09 said:

    Just received notice from our Council that from the 26th September we are going to enjoy 4 weekly bin collections.

    Come on those of you in England and match that !!!!

    does that include the food waste and recycling? Here in Ceredigion they talking of going 3 weekly but recycling will stay at weekly
    Food waste, plastic, cardboard, glass and paper are collected weekly from our trolley blocks
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    Ruth is everything that Boris used to have and more - the former reaches far beyond normal Tory lines as the latter once did but of course he is now so soiled a commodity (getting ever more swivel-eyed) that I'd sooner vote Mark Reckless than Boris.

    She saved us from the Corybn alliance being in power last GE - that alone makes her one of the greatest Tories in recent years.... not that that is saying much I give you.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Scott_P said:
    That is not due to Brexit. It is all to do with the drive to trash diesels and move to electric. The car industry EU wide is facing a crisis
    Meanwhile, the Unilver HQ move to The Netherlands is hitting some serious opposition from shareholders:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45545225
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    The answer is simple, and worrying for the Conservative party: they have a serious lack of talent. A charismatic outsider with a winning track record looks much better than most of the alternatives. Theresa May only remains in office because the alternatives look dire.
    It's more than that.

    There are, theoretically, some halfway capable alternatives in the Conservative Party: Sajid Javid, Amber Rudd, Jeremy Hunt, all are at least as competent as May (not, admittedly, setting the highest of bars).

    The problem is that the Conservatives are unleadable. The party has become so polarised over Brexit that the ERG won't vote for anyone "soft" (let alone "Remain"); the One-Nation faction won't vote for anyone "hard" (let alone "insane"); and the compromise candidates end up pleasing no-one, because if you wanted someone who'll deliver an untrustworthy fudge, well, you'd stick with May.
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    I'd like to be conservative leader.
    First policy is to proscribe Common Purpose
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The problem is that the Conservatives are unleadable.

    As are Labour

    If both parties split our politics would be enriched.
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    Scott_P said:
    That is not due to Brexit. It is all to do with the drive to trash diesels and move to electric. The car industry EU wide is facing a crisis
    Meanwhile, the Unilver HQ move to The Netherlands is hitting some serious opposition from shareholders:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45545225
    I don't understand how Unilever made the decision without understanding what their shareholders' concerns were, even if entirely self-serving
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Scott_P said:

    The problem is that the Conservatives are unleadable.

    As are Labour

    If both parties split our politics would be enriched.
    Getting the other side of Brexit will largely resolve the Conservative Party's problems.

    Getting the other side of Brexit will exacerbate Labour's.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,336

    Just received notice from our Council that from the 26th September we are going to enjoy 4 weekly bin collections.

    Come on those of you in England and match that !!!!

    Is that an eats shoots and leaves issue?

    Is it four bin collections per week or one bin collection every four weeks?
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,869

    It's more than that.

    There are, theoretically, some halfway capable alternatives in the Conservative Party: Sajid Javid, Amber Rudd, Jeremy Hunt, all are at least as competent as May (not, admittedly, setting the highest of bars).

    The problem is that the Conservatives are unleadable. The party has become so polarised over Brexit that the ERG won't vote for anyone "soft" (let alone "Remain"); the One-Nation faction won't vote for anyone "hard" (let alone "insane"); and the compromise candidates end up pleasing no-one, because if you wanted someone who'll deliver an untrustworthy fudge, well, you'd stick with May.

    You do realise the whole point of the EU Referendum was to resolve the long-running split within the Conservative party and re-unite it.

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    And they get upset about Chuka asking for the dogs to be called off....

    Jeremy Corbyn’s Chief of Staff, Karie Murphy, posted “are u considering your defence mitigation if u cut his throat?” as a comment on a photograph of David Cameron speaking with journalist Steve Zacharanda a reception at Downing Street in 2013.

    https://order-order.com/2018/09/17/corbyns-chief-staff-spoke-cutting-pms-throat/

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    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Urquhart, blimey. If her rhetoric were any more violent Corbyn would have to describe her as a friend then lay a wreath.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,336
    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Dalai Lama says ‘Europe belongs to the Europeans’ and suggests refugees return to native countries

    ‘Ultimately they should develop their own country,’ says spiritual leader"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dalai-lama-europe-refugee-crisis-immigration-eu-racism-tibet-buddhist-a8537221.html

    He is of course a refugee himself, keen to return to a free Tibet, and to develop it!
    Dr Fox I have tickets for Akram Khan at the Curve this weekend and was wondering about Indian restaurant reservations afterwards. Was thinking proper Indian restaurant, nothing fancy, no "new takes" or "Indian tapas", etc?

    Any recommendations?

    Thanks
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    stodge said:

    It's more than that.

    There are, theoretically, some halfway capable alternatives in the Conservative Party: Sajid Javid, Amber Rudd, Jeremy Hunt, all are at least as competent as May (not, admittedly, setting the highest of bars).

    The problem is that the Conservatives are unleadable. The party has become so polarised over Brexit that the ERG won't vote for anyone "soft" (let alone "Remain"); the One-Nation faction won't vote for anyone "hard" (let alone "insane"); and the compromise candidates end up pleasing no-one, because if you wanted someone who'll deliver an untrustworthy fudge, well, you'd stick with May.

    You do realise the whole point of the EU Referendum was to resolve the long-running split within the Conservative party and re-unite it.

    Haha. Quite.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2018

    Scott_P said:

    The problem is that the Conservatives are unleadable.

    As are Labour

    If both parties split our politics would be enriched.
    Getting the other side of Brexit will largely resolve the Conservative Party's problems.

    Getting the other side of Brexit will exacerbate Labour's.
    That one's a keeper. Improbably optimistic.
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    And they get upset about Chuka asking for the dogs to be called off....

    Jeremy Corbyn’s Chief of Staff, Karie Murphy, posted “are u considering your defence mitigation if u cut his throat?” as a comment on a photograph of David Cameron speaking with journalist Steve Zacharanda a reception at Downing Street in 2013.

    https://order-order.com/2018/09/17/corbyns-chief-staff-spoke-cutting-pms-throat/

    Silly don’t you realise “cut his throat” was merely a metaphor. Unlike “calling the dogs off” which quite literally calls our hard working member ‘dogs’ who every week go out and put leaflets through letterboxes and give their souls to this movement, they are not ‘dogs’....
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    notme said:

    And they get upset about Chuka asking for the dogs to be called off....

    Jeremy Corbyn’s Chief of Staff, Karie Murphy, posted “are u considering your defence mitigation if u cut his throat?” as a comment on a photograph of David Cameron speaking with journalist Steve Zacharanda a reception at Downing Street in 2013.

    https://order-order.com/2018/09/17/corbyns-chief-staff-spoke-cutting-pms-throat/

    Silly don’t you realise “cut his throat” was merely a metaphor. Unlike “calling the dogs off” which quite literally calls our hard working member ‘dogs’ who every week go out and put leaflets through letterboxes and give their souls to this movement, they are not ‘dogs’....
    The cult are obviously "whiter than whiter" when it comes to this stuff....good job I don't work for the MET, I would now be in a lot of trouble...
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    Scott_P said:

    The problem is that the Conservatives are unleadable.

    As are Labour

    If both parties split our politics would be enriched.
    We need PR to facilitate both main parties to split and give us a multi-coloured swap shop parliament.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2018
    notme said:

    And they get upset about Chuka asking for the dogs to be called off....

    Jeremy Corbyn’s Chief of Staff, Karie Murphy, posted “are u considering your defence mitigation if u cut his throat?” as a comment on a photograph of David Cameron speaking with journalist Steve Zacharanda a reception at Downing Street in 2013.

    https://order-order.com/2018/09/17/corbyns-chief-staff-spoke-cutting-pms-throat/

    Silly don’t you realise “cut his throat” was merely a metaphor. Unlike “calling the dogs off” which quite literally calls our hard working member ‘dogs’ who every week go out and put leaflets through letterboxes and give their souls to this movement, they are not ‘dogs’....
    More MSM lying. She actually said "cut his moat". Steve lives in a castle, as any fule kno.
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    Mr. Urquhart, what a world, in which a line from Shakespeare can get you investigated.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,668
    Long read Politico article on Ohio:
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/09/17/ohio-2018-elections-senior-citizens-sherrod-brown-dewine-cordray-219914

    Granted it amounts to extended anecdotage, but it does confirm the impression given by recent polling.

    The subtext of a lot of coverage of the white working class has been that issues don’t matter much, because Trump voters love Trump no matter what he does or tweets. That’s true for many of them, but not all of them, which is why his approval rating has dipped to potential blue-wave levels. Al Stapleton, a 72-year-old retired Teamster from Brunswick, says he voted for Trump to kick corporate asses and drain the Washington swamp, only to see the president attack unions, dismantle Wall Street regulations and ignore the threat to his $3000-a-month pension. “The guy talked a good game, and I’ll admit it, I got hornswoggled,” Stapleton said before Brown’s talk. “He doesn’t care about working people; we’re dirt under his feet.”

    Voters don’t always fit into neat socioeconomic stereotypes. Several retirees who came to see Brown discuss their pensions in Cambridge were still fuming about Clinton’s breezy observation on a visit to Ohio that she would “put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business.” But Don Cameron, a self-described Reagan Democrat wearing a camouflage United Mine Workers T-shirt, said he’s far more upset about Trump’s apathetic response to Hurricane Maria: “He said he did so much for Puerto Rico? What a joke!” Wharton, the blunt-spoken Vietnam vet, brought up Trump’s change-the-subject attacks on black athletes who kneel during the national anthem, then surprised me by siding with the protesters.
    “What gives that frigging draft dodger the right to criticize?” Wharton said. “Look, I’m a white man. But you know what? Too many of us are scared of minorities taking over this country....
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    We need PR to facilitate both main parties to split and give us a multi-coloured swap shop parliament.

    No

    I am in favour of FPTP on the basis it limits the chances of headbanger parties winning seats.

    Of course that assumes the "mainstream" parties are not fielding headbanger candidates, which may be a slight flaw currently...
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    I disagree with Mr Meeks implied position that only MPs should be considered to be future Prime Ministers. The fact that a leader of a devolved party is being considered credible says less about any alleged paucity of talent within Westminster and more about the increasing maturity of devolved [especially Scottish] politics.

    While not a perfect analogy within the USA Presidents tend to be a mix of former Governors from the States or Senators [Holyrood-equivalent] from central Congress [Westminster-equivalent].

    Carter, Reagan, Clinton, W. Bush, Truman, Nixon and Ford were all governors.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:

    The problem is that the Conservatives are unleadable.

    As are Labour

    If both parties split our politics would be enriched.
    Getting the other side of Brexit will largely resolve the Conservative Party's problems.

    Getting the other side of Brexit will exacerbate Labour's.
    That one's a keeper. Improbably optimistic.
    Why do you think Boris's prospects of leadership are withering on the vine? It's because no-one wants a leader who will make this continued fight with Brussels their Party's raison d'etre. It's why the fight in the Party ahead of a deal is so important - because once a deal is done, the Party will be expected to row in behind it.

    Admittedly, Theresa May is making that task harder by insisting the Party accept a shit-sandwich of a deal. But unless the deal is so bad that it causes a No Deal exit, then the Conservative Party will largley mirror the mood of the people, breathe a sigh of relief, think thank fuck that is over, and get on with making the best of a post-Brexit Britain.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,712
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Dalai Lama says ‘Europe belongs to the Europeans’ and suggests refugees return to native countries

    ‘Ultimately they should develop their own country,’ says spiritual leader"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dalai-lama-europe-refugee-crisis-immigration-eu-racism-tibet-buddhist-a8537221.html

    He is of course a refugee himself, keen to return to a free Tibet, and to develop it!
    Dr Fox I have tickets for Akram Khan at the Curve this weekend and was wondering about Indian restaurant reservations afterwards. Was thinking proper Indian restaurant, nothing fancy, no "new takes" or "Indian tapas", etc?

    Any recommendations?

    Thanks
    The Mem Saab, more or less opposite the Curve, is reasonably well regarded, but not my favourite.

    I rather like the Kayal, which specialises in Keralan seafood:

    http://www.kayalrestaurant.com

    It is at the top end of Granby St, near the Railway station, about 5 min walk from the Curve. There is a home match for Leicester City though so the area around the Railway station can be busy afterwards.




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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2018
    Nigelb said:

    ...“The guy talked a good game, and I’ll admit it, I got hornswoggled,” Stapleton said....

    That's a new word for me, but I'm going to be looking for any excuse to use it.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    once a deal is done, the Party will be expected to row in behind it.

    *cough* Michael Gove *cough*
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    Wonder what this will involve....its been very quiet:

    https://twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/1041689615852285952
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    Pretty certain the Belfast Agreements are indeed close to non-justiciable. The objector's remedy is political, not legal.

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    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Anorak said:

    Scott_P said:

    The problem is that the Conservatives are unleadable.

    As are Labour

    If both parties split our politics would be enriched.
    Getting the other side of Brexit will largely resolve the Conservative Party's problems.

    Getting the other side of Brexit will exacerbate Labour's.
    That one's a keeper. Improbably optimistic.
    Why do you think Boris's prospects of leadership are withering on the vine? It's because no-one wants a leader who will make this continued fight with Brussels their Party's raison d'etre. It's why the fight in the Party ahead of a deal is so important - because once a deal is done, the Party will be expected to row in behind it.

    Admittedly, Theresa May is making that task harder by insisting the Party accept a shit-sandwich of a deal. But unless the deal is so bad that it causes a No Deal exit, then the Conservative Party will largley mirror the mood of the people, breathe a sigh of relief, think thank fuck that is over, and get on with making the best of a post-Brexit Britain.
    The real fight starts after 29th March. All May is agreeing now is the withdrawal agreement and a vague political declaration of the future trade agreement.
    The fight afterwards will be Canada plus or Chequers style if enough Tory MP's vote to give the EU 40billion for a period of staying in the EU with no say on the rules.
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    I disagree with Mr Meeks implied position that only MPs should be considered to be future Prime Ministers. The fact that a leader of a devolved party is being considered credible says less about any alleged paucity of talent within Westminster and more about the increasing maturity of devolved [especially Scottish] politics.

    While not a perfect analogy within the USA Presidents tend to be a mix of former Governors from the States or Senators [Holyrood-equivalent] from central Congress [Westminster-equivalent].

    Carter, Reagan, Clinton, W. Bush, Truman, Nixon and Ford were all governors.

    Agreed. Although of course, Davidson is not the head of a devolved parliament; she is the leader of the opposition in one. Even so, the Tory party should change its rules to remove the limitation to just MPs to enable someone with top-level experience in a devolved government to move to Westminster leadership - presumably on the basis of an imminent election, General or by-election.
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    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1041693936581005314

    She will be getting one of those charming cards the cult love to send.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,336
    edited September 2018
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Dalai Lama says ‘Europe belongs to the Europeans’ and suggests refugees return to native countries

    ‘Ultimately they should develop their own country,’ says spiritual leader"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dalai-lama-europe-refugee-crisis-immigration-eu-racism-tibet-buddhist-a8537221.html

    He is of course a refugee himself, keen to return to a free Tibet, and to develop it!
    Dr Fox I have tickets for Akram Khan at the Curve this weekend and was wondering about Indian restaurant reservations afterwards. Was thinking proper Indian restaurant, nothing fancy, no "new takes" or "Indian tapas", etc?

    Any recommendations?

    Thanks
    The Mem Saab, more or less opposite the Curve, is reasonably well regarded, but not my favourite.

    I rather like the Kayal, which specialises in Keralan seafood:

    http://www.kayalrestaurant.com

    It is at the top end of Granby St, near the Railway station, about 5 min walk from the Curve. There is a home match for Leicester City though so the area around the Railway station can be busy afterwards.

    Excellent thanks the Kayal comes top in a google search also. Noted about LCFC.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Nigelb said:

    ...“The guy talked a good game, and I’ll admit it, I got hornswoggled,” Stapleton said....

    That's a new word for me, but I'm going to be looking for any excuse to use it.
    You are unfamiliar with the best bit of dialogue in any film ever, then:

    Taggart: What do you want me to do sir?
    Hedley: I want you to round up ever vicious criminal and gun slinger in the west. Take this down.
    [Taggart looks for a pen and paper while Hedley talks]
    Hedley: I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists!
    Taggart: [finding pen and paper] Could you repeat that, sir?
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    "After all, she [Ruth Davidson] has the other two disqualifiers, just like me".

    Well, yes and no. She is currently out of the Westminster loop, in Holyrood. However, were she to move to Westminster - and who knows when an opportunity to do so might arise - there's a good chance she would be Secretary of State for Scotland at the next reshuffle.

    She is at present a non-runner but the path to her being in the game is short and plausible.

    That said, being a new parent is hard work (I have immense respect for those mothers who somehow manage to combine being an MP with parenting duties). Davidson is still young. She may well be a future Tory leader - but just not the next one.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,336

    Pretty certain the Belfast Agreements are indeed close to non-justiciable. The objector's remedy is political, not legal.

    Belfast Agreement =/= Northern Ireland Act.
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    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    ...“The guy talked a good game, and I’ll admit it, I got hornswoggled,” Stapleton said....

    That's a new word for me, but I'm going to be looking for any excuse to use it.
    You are unfamiliar with the best bit of dialogue in any film ever, then:

    Taggart: What do you want me to do sir?
    Hedley: I want you to round up ever vicious criminal and gun slinger in the west. Take this down.
    [Taggart looks for a pen and paper while Hedley talks]
    Hedley: I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists!
    Taggart: [finding pen and paper] Could you repeat that, sir?
    Very good!
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    A letter has revealed how Julian Assange applied for a Russian visa two years before resorting to hiding in Ecuador's London Embassy to avoid extradition over rape claims.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6175623/New-leak-shows-Julian-Assange-sought-Russian-visa-2010.html
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    Scott_P said:

    We need PR to facilitate both main parties to split and give us a multi-coloured swap shop parliament.

    No

    I am in favour of FPTP on the basis it limits the chances of headbanger parties winning seats.

    Of course that assumes the "mainstream" parties are not fielding headbanger candidates, which may be a slight flaw currently...
    A 5% threshold would keep out the real nutters. But if >5% of the electorate vote for Fascists or Trots, why should the chattering classes deny them their representation?
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    "After all, she [Ruth Davidson] has the other two disqualifiers, just like me".

    Well, yes and no. She is currently out of the Westminster loop, in Holyrood. However, were she to move to Westminster - and who knows when an opportunity to do so might arise - there's a good chance she would be Secretary of State for Scotland at the next reshuffle.

    She is at present a non-runner but the path to her being in the game is short and plausible.

    That said, being a new parent is hard work (I have immense respect for those mothers who somehow manage to combine being an MP with parenting duties). Davidson is still young. She may well be a future Tory leader - but just not the next one.

    ... and what about fathers?
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Nigelb said:

    ...“The guy talked a good game, and I’ll admit it, I got hornswoggled,” Stapleton said....

    That's a new word for me, but I'm going to be looking for any excuse to use it.
    One of my dads favourite words. Brings back memories for me!
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    Aw, and no one has commented on the title yet.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,336

    Scott_P said:

    We need PR to facilitate both main parties to split and give us a multi-coloured swap shop parliament.

    No

    I am in favour of FPTP on the basis it limits the chances of headbanger parties winning seats.

    Of course that assumes the "mainstream" parties are not fielding headbanger candidates, which may be a slight flaw currently...
    A 5% threshold would keep out the real nutters. But if >5% of the electorate vote for Fascists or Trots, why should the chattering classes deny them their representation?
    cf 12% Brexit referendum.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Aw, and no one has commented on the title yet.

    One of the funniest ever films, IMHO.
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    TOPPING said:

    Pretty certain the Belfast Agreements are indeed close to non-justiciable. The objector's remedy is political, not legal.

    Belfast Agreement =/= Northern Ireland Act.
    Go on - which bit of the Act is justiciable?
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,869

    Wonder what this will involve....its been very quiet:

    https://twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/1041689615852285952

    I'm not sure what is meant by "integrity of the Single Market". I thought in EU terms that meant the four Freedoms, pure and simple, which would be wholly unacceptable to most LEAVE voters.

    Barnier must believe the May apologists, who are backpedalling at speed toward BINO, will accept SM in name only and the lightest possible restrictions on FoM.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2018

    Why do you think Boris's prospects of leadership are withering on the vine? It's because no-one wants a leader who will make this continued fight with Brussels their Party's raison d'etre.

    Yes. That's the reason for it. The scales have fallen from my eyes.

    I'm embarrassed to say I thought it was because he was perceived as a opportunistic, narcissistic, untrustworthy, lying, cheating, treacherous, racist, populist charlatan. But yes, I see now it's basically the EU's fault.
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    stodge said:

    Wonder what this will involve....its been very quiet:

    https://twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/1041689615852285952

    I'm not sure what is meant by "integrity of the Single Market". I thought in EU terms that meant the four Freedoms, pure and simple, which would be wholly unacceptable to most LEAVE voters.

    Barnier must believe the May apologists, who are backpedalling at speed toward BINO, will accept SM in name only and the lightest possible restrictions on FoM.
    How about we agree that the four freedoms apply to those countries that partake in it? So Britain won't be undermining it when it leaves and that any deal on a less close relationship - one which excludes FoM for people, for example, works on a mutual basis?
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    Scott_P said:

    We need PR to facilitate both main parties to split and give us a multi-coloured swap shop parliament.

    No

    I am in favour of FPTP on the basis it limits the chances of headbanger parties winning seats.

    Of course that assumes the "mainstream" parties are not fielding headbanger candidates, which may be a slight flaw currently...
    One person's 'headbanger party' is not necessarily another's. Also, as you indicate FPTP has given us some headbangers e.g. Jared O'Mara and David Tredinnick.
    Single Transferable Vote in multi-member constituencies would give us a choice of personnel within parties and the vote would actually count. MPs would still be tied to a constituency and it would still be quite difficult for a headbanger to get elected, maybe more so than at the moment.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,668

    Nigelb said:

    ...“The guy talked a good game, and I’ll admit it, I got hornswoggled,” Stapleton said....

    That's a new word for me, but I'm going to be looking for any excuse to use it.
    Just never run for office in rural Ohio, and you should be OK.
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    Sean_F said:

    Aw, and no one has commented on the title yet.

    One of the funniest ever films, IMHO.
    Supposedly both Bette Midler and Danny De Vito hated it and thought they'd ruined their careers.
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    "After all, she [Ruth Davidson] has the other two disqualifiers, just like me".

    Well, yes and no. She is currently out of the Westminster loop, in Holyrood. However, were she to move to Westminster - and who knows when an opportunity to do so might arise - there's a good chance she would be Secretary of State for Scotland at the next reshuffle.

    She is at present a non-runner but the path to her being in the game is short and plausible.

    That said, being a new parent is hard work (I have immense respect for those mothers who somehow manage to combine being an MP with parenting duties). Davidson is still young. She may well be a future Tory leader - but just not the next one.

    ... and what about fathers?
    That depends on what they're doing in respect of childcare but the nature of early parenting is that inevitably the mother will usually take on a disproportionate share. For MPs, I doubt many fathers will bring the baby in to work (not least because Westminster is not really a very child-friendly place), whereas a new mother who is breastfeeding doesn't have much choice.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Aw, and no one has commented on the title yet.

    I thought it was charmingly understated and reacted accordingly. But then i'm ever ruthfull!
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2018

    Sean_F said:

    Aw, and no one has commented on the title yet.

    One of the funniest ever films, IMHO.
    Supposedly both Bette Midler and Danny De Vito hated it and thought they'd ruined their careers.
    Criss Cross.
    EDIT: Oops. That's Throw Momma From The Train. Danny should have been more worried about that one.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Sean_F said:

    Aw, and no one has commented on the title yet.

    One of the funniest ever films, IMHO.
    Supposedly both Bette Midler and Danny De Vito hated it and thought they'd ruined their careers.
    I'd rate it with Some Like it Hot.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,668

    I disagree with Mr Meeks implied position that only MPs should be considered to be future Prime Ministers. The fact that a leader of a devolved party is being considered credible says less about any alleged paucity of talent within Westminster and more about the increasing maturity of devolved [especially Scottish] politics.

    While not a perfect analogy within the USA Presidents tend to be a mix of former Governors from the States or Senators [Holyrood-equivalent] from central Congress [Westminster-equivalent].

    Carter, Reagan, Clinton, W. Bush, Truman, Nixon and Ford were all governors.

    Nixon ran for governor (of California), and lost.
    He was a Congressman, Senator and Vice President before becoming President.
    Ford was a Congressman (and, of course, VP).
    Truman was a Senator.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,336

    TOPPING said:

    Pretty certain the Belfast Agreements are indeed close to non-justiciable. The objector's remedy is political, not legal.

    Belfast Agreement =/= Northern Ireland Act.
    Go on - which bit of the Act is justiciable?
    Was Boris as usual just being a dick?

    An Act of Parliament is a law, enforced in all areas of the UK where it is applicable.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,668

    Mr. Urquhart, what a world, in which a line from Shakespeare can get you investigated.

    In the right, or rather wrong context, there's probably quite a long list of Shakespeare quotes which could get you investigated.
    Or are you unfamiliar with Othello, Taming of the Shrew or The Merchant of Venice ?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,668
    Anorak said:

    Sean_F said:

    Aw, and no one has commented on the title yet.

    One of the funniest ever films, IMHO.
    Supposedly both Bette Midler and Danny De Vito hated it and thought they'd ruined their careers.
    Criss Cross.
    EDIT: Oops. That's Throw Momma From The Train. Danny should have been more worried about that one.
    Now that would make an interesting thread title.
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    Mr. B, thanks for that word. I follow Susie Dent on Twitter and she often has great words I make a note of (usually for Sir Edric's nonsense).

    Quafftide is a good one. It means the time at which a drink is appropriate (either time of day or when you just really need/want one).

    "Insult of the day, should you need one: a bayard (16th century) is one who has all the self-confidence of ignorance."
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    Mr. B, that's a bit like saying a line from Armstrong & Miller (Kill them/him) can get you investigated.

    Anything, out of context or in a bizarre one, can be construed as offensive or dangerous.
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    Nigelb said:

    Mr. Urquhart, what a world, in which a line from Shakespeare can get you investigated.

    In the right, or rather wrong context, there's probably quite a long list of Shakespeare quotes which could get you investigated.
    Or are you unfamiliar with Othello, Taming of the Shrew or The Merchant of Venice ?
    I've never been too enthused with "let's kill all the lawyers".
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    TOPPING said:

    Just received notice from our Council that from the 26th September we are going to enjoy 4 weekly bin collections.

    Come on those of you in England and match that !!!!

    Is that an eats shoots and leaves issue?

    Is it four bin collections per week or one bin collection every four weeks?
    Once every four weeks
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,668

    Mr. B, that's a bit like saying a line from Armstrong & Miller (Kill them/him) can get you investigated.

    Anything, out of context or in a bizarre one, can be construed as offensive or dangerous.

    Quite, Mr.D - which is why you don't get to have it both ways.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,668

    Nigelb said:

    Mr. Urquhart, what a world, in which a line from Shakespeare can get you investigated.

    In the right, or rather wrong context, there's probably quite a long list of Shakespeare quotes which could get you investigated.
    Or are you unfamiliar with Othello, Taming of the Shrew or The Merchant of Venice ?
    I've never been too enthused with "let's kill all the lawyers".
    'All' does seem mildly excessive.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Nigelb said:

    Mr. Urquhart, what a world, in which a line from Shakespeare can get you investigated.

    In the right, or rather wrong context, there's probably quite a long list of Shakespeare quotes which could get you investigated.
    Or are you unfamiliar with Othello, Taming of the Shrew or The Merchant of Venice ?

    "A joyless, dismal, black, and sorrowful issue:
    Here is the babe, as loathsome as a toad
    Amongst the fairest breeders of our clime:
    The empress sends it thee, thy stamp, thy seal,
    And bids thee christen it with thy dagger's point."

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    Nigelb said:

    Anorak said:

    Sean_F said:

    Aw, and no one has commented on the title yet.

    One of the funniest ever films, IMHO.
    Supposedly both Bette Midler and Danny De Vito hated it and thought they'd ruined their careers.
    Criss Cross.
    EDIT: Oops. That's Throw Momma From The Train. Danny should have been more worried about that one.
    Now that would make an interesting thread title.
    "Throw MEPs from the Gravy Train"
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2018
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Mr. Urquhart, what a world, in which a line from Shakespeare can get you investigated.

    In the right, or rather wrong context, there's probably quite a long list of Shakespeare quotes which could get you investigated.
    Or are you unfamiliar with Othello, Taming of the Shrew or The Merchant of Venice ?
    I've never been too enthused with "let's kill all the lawyers".
    'All' does seem mildly excessive.
    Presumably it was on the principle of better safe than sorry.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,931

    Aw, and no one has commented on the title yet.

    The point about Scottish First minister is very good. Does Ruth simply see if it as an easier job due to the relative lack of powers ?
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    Not content with appearing on a platform with Farage, David Davis is helping him sell tickets.
    https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1041709181571670016?s=21
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    stodge said:

    Wonder what this will involve....its been very quiet:

    https://twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/1041689615852285952

    I'm not sure what is meant by "integrity of the Single Market". I thought in EU terms that meant the four Freedoms, pure and simple, which would be wholly unacceptable to most LEAVE voters.

    Barnier must believe the May apologists, who are backpedalling at speed toward BINO, will accept SM in name only and the lightest possible restrictions on FoM.
    How about we agree that the four freedoms apply to those countries that partake in it? So Britain won't be undermining it when it leaves and that any deal on a less close relationship - one which excludes FoM for people, for example, works on a mutual basis?
    Eminently sensible, hence why some ideologue somewhere will attempt to derail it. However, as we moved towards deadline day all roads start leading back to the SM/CU–fig-leaf-on-FOM model. The insane wing of the Tory Party has been found out and the adults appear to be getting a grip.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited September 2018
    Well it seems some Jews still think Jezza is the messiah...

    The pair told the JC they believe the Labour Party’s antisemitism crisis is a “smear with a Zionist agenda”

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/charedi-jeremy-corbyn-labour-antisemitism-letter-signed-by-rabbis-1.469880
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2018
    Sean_F said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Alistair said:

    Nothing on Ruth Davison ruling herself out of a run for Conservative Leader though I see TSE?

    I tried writing a thread on that but I failed.

    What I wrote ended up being rather callous, or patronising, or somewhat cynical towards Ruth Davidson.

    It was very hard to get the right tone on such a moving and sensitive topic.

    Is for the same reasons I haven’t done a thread on Alex Salmond’s recent issues.
    Ruth Davidson has continued to build street credibility amongst the young especially in Scotland. She has so far been loyal to TM but clearly hates BJ. She is part of the reason that Boris will never by PM of the UK.
    In 2011 the final YouGov had Anabelle Goldie's Conservatives with 18% of the 18-24 year old vote. 2016 had Ruth, credibility amongst the young, with 15%.

    Ruth's Scottish base is Brexiters and Brexiters are old.
    Yeah, because Ruth is such a fan of Brexit.

    Pillock.
    Ruth being a fan of Brexit (an extremely malleable position depending on her audience) has nothing to do with who is actually voting for the Conservatives in Scotland. And the people who are voting for Conservatives in Scotland are older Brexit voters.

    Unless you have some penetrating insights that goes counter to the polling?
    The Conservatives pick up the 25-30% who are both Unionists, and anti-EU,
    Yup, there's a grid of voters labelled by Indy Vote down one axis and Brexit Vote down the other.

    SCons are the only No/Leave party so get the whole slice of that pie.
This discussion has been closed.