The backstop is the single greatest error of May's career of terrible errors.
The backstop might be the single greatest foreign policy fuck up in UK politics since Suez?
The backstop needs to die, and that means May's dodgy deal needs to die, and that means May's career needs to die. There must be no forgiveness for a fuckup of this magnitude.
Fine.
Have you checked with the EU that the end of Mrs May's career would kill off the backstop? Just thought it would be as well to give them a buzz first to check there are no snags.
If the new PM says 'over my dead body' to the backstop then yes it would. It wasn't even in their original proposals, it only came in when May revealed how weak she was and it was pathetic to agree to it.
The EU have been absolutely clear No backstop and guarantee of No hard border in Ireland then No Deal.
That means there is no alternative deal to May's achievable from an alternative Tory leader, the only alternative is permanent Customs Union for the whole UK from PM Corbyn quite probably with permanent Single Market too as the SNP will demand that and he will need them for a majority
They're bluffing.
The EU overplayed their hand on the backstop, and they know it, and they know we know it.
If we didn't have a PM who was so useless at anything other than capitulation we'd be able to pull them back from the precipice.
The UK government should pass some emergency legislation making backstops of any kind illegal. Focus a few minds.
The backstop is the single greatest error of May's career of terrible errors.
The backstop might be the single greatest foreign policy fuck up in UK politics since Suez?
The backstop needs to die, and that means May's dodgy deal needs to die, and that means May's career needs to die. There must be no forgiveness for a fuckup of this magnitude.
Fine.
Have you checked with the EU that the end of Mrs May's career would kill off the backstop? Just thought it would be as well to give them a buzz first to check there are no snags.
Maybe not. But May still deserves to be made to pay for an unforced fuckup of this astonishingly huge magnitude.
Whoever has to suffer by picking through the smoldering remains of her disastrous idiocy, it cannot be her.
If anything was a fuck up, it was not making clear before the referendum that the British state would uphold its previous commitments to Northern Ireland even if it made a UK-wide Brexit impossible.
It's unreasonable to argue that the GFA must override the constitutional wish of a majority of British voters to leave the European Union, particularly as the GFA does not bind any part of the UK to remain in the European Union.
The process that led to the GFA included a binding commitment on the part of the British government that arrangements on the island of Ireland were a matter for the people of the island of Ireland. Northern Ireland voted Remain, and Ireland didn't ask for Brexit at all.
One thing which puzzles me in the current brouhaha is what exactly the DUP want. I can see what they don't like about the proposed withdrawal agreement, but they also don't want a hard border in Ireland and they still support Brexit. So the pressure they are putting on the PM is aimed at achieving what change, exactly?
Not to be subject to the single market in goods within the backstop ?
Get a trade deal for the whole UK that avoids a hard border. Squares every circle.
The issue is there isn't time for that before 29th March ! The Trade Deal will take many years to thrash out, but we need to leave to transition first.
So agree a transition but don't agree anything permanent before the transition. My issue is us sacrificing permanent commitments to get a temporary transition. I have no issues as all with temporary commitments that last as long as the transition.
As I see it, the EU has no more desire for the backstop to be permanent than we have. It means the violation of their four freedoms, as (in their eyes) we get privileged access to their markets without accepting freedom of movement.
What about Selmayr saying the price we've got to pay for Brexit is Northern Ireland?
We don't know whether Selmayr did say that. If he did, then he's a dick.
Anyone know off hand how much we spend subsidising Northern Ireland every year?
The smarter ERGers should have retracted their letters for the moment. Last thing they want to do is accidentally hit 48 with them looking such a shambles now.
I don't buy the May is incompetent. I think she's a pathological liar that prioritises her own political survival above the government, the party and the country (in that order) but she knows exactly what she's doing.
The smarter ERGers should have retracted their letters for the moment. Last thing they want to do is accidentally hit 48 with them looking such a shambles now.
Nah, focuses a few minds reminding people May is hovering very close to the threshold. Keeps it at the front of her mind when she goes to Juncker to prostrate herself for permission to re-open negotiations on the backstop omnishambles.
The backstop is the single greatest error of May's career of terrible errors.
The backstop might be the single greatest foreign policy fuck up in UK politics since Suez?
The backstop needs to die, and that means May's dodgy deal needs to die, and that means May's career needs to die. There must be no forgiveness for a fuckup of this magnitude.
Fine.
Have you checked with the EU that the end of Mrs May's career would kill off the backstop? Just thought it would be as well to give them a buzz first to check there are no snags.
Maybe not. But May still deserves to be made to pay for an unforced fuckup of this astonishingly huge magnitude.
Whoever has to suffer by picking through the smoldering remains of her disastrous idiocy, it cannot be her.
If anything was a fuck up, it was not making clear before the referendum that the British state would uphold its previous commitments to Northern Ireland even if it made a UK-wide Brexit impossible.
It's unreasonable to argue that the GFA must override the constitutional wish of a majority of British voters to leave the European Union, particularly as the GFA does not bind any part of the UK to remain in the European Union.
The process that led to the GFA included a binding commitment on the part of the British government that arrangements on the island of Ireland were a matter for the people of the island of Ireland. Northern Ireland voted Remain, and Ireland didn't ask for Brexit at all.
The Courts have rejected any attempt to claim that Brexit violates the GFA.
An unspoken assumption that the UK would remain within the EU is not worth the paper it's written on.
I don't buy the May is incompetent. I think she's a pathological liar that prioritises her own political survival above the government, the party and the country (in that order) but she knows exactly what she's doing.
- It is not the case that the UK could have prepared for 'no deal', it is simply not possible for us unilaterally to avoid the disastrous consequences. It is a blame-shifting fantasy to say it's all Theresa May's fault for not planning for no deal.
Following on from that, I think the EU have over-reached by insisting on the Irish backstop, with potentially disastrous consequence for both sides, but I don't think they will back down on this.
The EU are playing hardball because we wanted a free trade agreement.
May should have realised that wasn't possible ages ago instead of capitulating on everything else.
It is absolutely her fault that they continued down this path long after it was shown that we couldn't get any acceptable deal from it.
Or maybe Brexit is like the squareroot of -1? Only imaginary solutions exist.
It's impossible to leave the EU?
FFS it was easier for countries to get out of the Soviet Union. The comparisons get ever more apt every day don't they?
No, May has a deal under which we leave the EU. It's her own government (including two former Brexit ministers) which is the first barrier. Then there's the DUP and parliament, it's not the EU that are the problem. Plus we'd be better off staying anyway.
All going well here in Wales with labour's new 'Transport for Wales' franchise
TFW have apologised after more than a quarter of it's trains were left needing repairs mainly because of 'leaves on the track'. 36 trains out of 127 are under repair. Repair work was also being done on trains damaged during storm Callum. TFW and Network Rail have issued a joint apology.
So how does nationalisation help. Mind you in Wales nationalisation is off the table as Welsh labour has signed a 15 year franchise
- It is not the case that the UK could have prepared for 'no deal', it is simply not possible for us unilaterally to avoid the disastrous consequences. It is a blame-shifting fantasy to say it's all Theresa May's fault for not planning for no deal.
Following on from that, I think the EU have over-reached by insisting on the Irish backstop, with potentially disastrous consequence for both sides, but I don't think they will back down on this.
The EU are playing hardball because we wanted a free trade agreement.
May should have realised that wasn't possible ages ago instead of capitulating on everything else.
It is absolutely her fault that they continued down this path long after it was shown that we couldn't get any acceptable deal from it.
I thought the whole point of leaving was to sign, er, free trade agreements.
But now you don't want one with the EU.
Or were you cutting and pasting from the Daily Mash? Difficult to tell with you hardcore leavers these days.
Even if May did face a No confidence vote she will almost certainly win it given over 200 out of 318 Tory MPs are reported to back the Deal and she only needs to won by 1
That will keep her in place for a year until well past Brexit Day while a new leader would take over with barely 2 months left to get a Deal agreed, almost impossible
No -- the Prime Minister would lose a no confidence vote because any likely successor would have broadly the same policies, and few MPs will want her anywhere near an election campaign.
There has been a paradox. Two paradoxes. The smaller is that Theresa May has got better at campaigning which ought to strengthen her position but probably won't. The crucial one is the ERG is revealed to be a busted flush. This means backbenchers can vote against May knowing that the ERG can't get 48 letters written so does not have a prayer of getting a Brexiteer into the final two.
The ERG's blustering has made it safe to depose Theresa May!
No - The PM absolutely will win a no confidence vote as no alternative leader has a better plan for a Deal and most Tory MPs want a Deal and there will not be a general election anyway as most Tory MPs will not vote for one and it requires 2/3 of MPs and in any case May outpolls any alternative Tory leader. More likely is May will call EUref2 if she still cannot get her Deal through after the markets crash when it is voted down on a Deal v No Deal v Remain basis and that requires a simple Commons majority which there is for EUref2 in the Commons over No Deal.
Many Brexiteers have not signed letters that does not mean they would not back a Brexiteer in a leadership vote but there will not be one anyway as May will survive any no confidence vote
Amongst the mockery it seems they're planning on going for Mickey Fab's post vote ambush plan.
Don't tell them Pike.
Be bloody funny if a handful of May loyalists put in their letters to force the issue and made her safe for a year.
Is there such a thing as a "May Loyalist" ?
The fact the ERG are struggling to get to 28 letters should be in no way seen as the Tory Party having any love or loyalty to Theresa May....
I’m a fully fledged May loyalist.
Yes I’m amazed as the rest of you but No Deal is a disaster and this deal respects the main referendum commitment to end free movement and doesn’t crash the economy.
Plus the opponents to this deal are people who I so detest so she must be doing something right.
I mean look at how stupid David Davis was shown to be yesterday.
The backstop is the single greatest error of May's career of terrible errors.
The backstop might be the single greatest foreign policy fuck up in UK politics since Suez?
The backstop needs to die, and that means May's dodgy deal needs to die, and that means May's career needs to die. There must be no forgiveness for a fuckup of this magnitude.
You have become one of the funniest (as in laughing with you) posters on PB of late.
Amongst the mockery it seems they're planning on going for Mickey Fab's post vote ambush plan.
Don't tell them Pike.
Be bloody funny if a handful of May loyalists put in their letters to force the issue and made her safe for a year.
Is there such a thing as a "May Loyalist" ?
The fact the ERG are struggling to get to 28 letters should be in no way seen as the Tory Party having any love or loyalty to Theresa May....
I’m a fully fledged May loyalist.
Yes I’m amazed as the rest of you but No Deal is a disaster and this deal respects the main referendum commitment to end free movement and doesn’t crash the economy.
Plus the opponents to this deal are people who I so detest so she must be doing something right.
I mean look at how stupid David Davis was shown to be yesterday.
My view is that she and her deal are preferable to any plausible alternative.
The backstop is the single greatest error of May's career of terrible errors.
The backstop might be the single greatest foreign policy fuck up in UK politics since Suez?
The backstop needs to die, and that means May's dodgy deal needs to die, and that means May's career needs to die. There must be no forgiveness for a fuckup of this magnitude.
Fine.
Have you checked with the EU that the end of Mrs May's career would kill off the backstop? Just thought it would be as well to give them a buzz first to check there are no snags.
Maybe not. But May still deserves to be made to pay for an unforced fuckup of this astonishingly huge magnitude.
Whoever has to suffer by picking through the smoldering remains of her disastrous idiocy, it cannot be her.
If anything was a fuck up, it was not making clear before the referendum that the British state would uphold its previous commitments to Northern Ireland even if it made a UK-wide Brexit impossible.
It's unreasonable to argue that the GFA must override the constitutional wish of a majority of British voters to leave the European Union, particularly as the GFA does not bind any part of the UK to remain in the European Union.
The process that led to the GFA included a binding commitment on the part of the British government that arrangements on the island of Ireland were a matter for the people of the island of Ireland. Northern Ireland voted Remain, and Ireland didn't ask for Brexit at all.
The Courts have rejected any attempt to claim that Brexit violates the GFA.
An unspoken assumption that the UK would remain within the EU is not worth the paper it's written on.
Forget about the GFA and read the Downing Street Declaration.
- It is not the case that the UK could have prepared for 'no deal', it is simply not possible for us unilaterally to avoid the disastrous consequences. It is a blame-shifting fantasy to say it's all Theresa May's fault for not planning for no deal.
Following on from that, I think the EU have over-reached by insisting on the Irish backstop, with potentially disastrous consequence for both sides, but I don't think they will back down on this.
The EU are playing hardball because we wanted a free trade agreement.
May should have realised that wasn't possible ages ago instead of capitulating on everything else.
It is absolutely her fault that they continued down this path long after it was shown that we couldn't get any acceptable deal from it.
Or maybe Brexit is like the squareroot of -1? Only imaginary solutions exist.
It's impossible to leave the EU?
FFS it was easier for countries to get out of the Soviet Union. The comparisons get ever more apt every day don't they?
We spent 40+ years integrating ourselves into Europe. Do you seriously imagine we can undo all that in 2 years?
We could really do hard, hard Brexit. Just stop interacting with Europe, refuse to pay anything, put barriers on all ports or entry. Of course the country would grind to a halt and food shortages would become a reality very quickly. About 30% of our food comes directly from Europe as does peak energy demands from the cross-channel grids.
If we had the sort of Brexit some of the economically illiterate Leavers keep banging on about then it really would feel like the Soviet Union with queues for potatoes and foodstuffs.
But that would fine wouldn't it?
Alternatively we can leave without putting up barriers. And it was your beloved EU that decided 2 years and no longer than 2 years (with no pre-notification talks allowed) is appropriate.
And it was a British Lawyer who wrote the 2 years bit into the treaty....
Edit: If we do not put up barriers then our own industry is exposed to worldwide competition which will undercut many of them.
Don't forget that Patrick Minford sees the destruction of the UK's domestic manufacturing as a positive outcome of Brexit.
The backstop is the single greatest error of May's career of terrible errors.
The backstop might be the single greatest foreign policy fuck up in UK politics since Suez?
The backstop needs to die, and that means May's dodgy deal needs to die, and that means May's career needs to die. There must be no forgiveness for a fuckup of this magnitude.
Fine.
Have you checked with the EU that the end of Mrs May's career would kill off the backstop? Just thought it would be as well to give them a buzz first to check there are no snags.
If the new PM says 'over my dead body' to the backstop then yes it would. It wasn't even in their original proposals, it only came in when May revealed how weak she was and it was pathetic to agree to it.
The EU have been absolutely clear No backstop and guarantee of No hard border in Ireland then No Deal.
That means there is no alternative deal to May's achievable from an alternative Tory leader, the only alternative is permanent Customs Union for the whole UK from PM Corbyn quite probably with permanent Single Market too as the SNP will demand that and he will need them for a majority
They're bluffing.
No they are not, No Deal screws us more than them. We are just 16% of their exports, they are 44% of ours
Amongst the mockery it seems they're planning on going for Mickey Fab's post vote ambush plan.
Don't tell them Pike.
Be bloody funny if a handful of May loyalists put in their letters to force the issue and made her safe for a year.
Is there such a thing as a "May Loyalist" ?
The fact the ERG are struggling to get to 28 letters should be in no way seen as the Tory Party having any love or loyalty to Theresa May....
I’m a fully fledged May loyalist.
Yes I’m amazed as the rest of you but No Deal is a disaster and this deal respects the main referendum commitment to end free movement and doesn’t crash the economy.
Plus the opponents to this deal are people who I so detest so she must be doing something right.
I mean look at how stupid David Davis was shown to be yesterday.
Amongst the mockery it seems they're planning on going for Mickey Fab's post vote ambush plan.
Don't tell them Pike.
Be bloody funny if a handful of May loyalists put in their letters to force the issue and made her safe for a year.
Is there such a thing as a "May Loyalist" ?
The fact the ERG are struggling to get to 28 letters should be in no way seen as the Tory Party having any love or loyalty to Theresa May....
I’m a fully fledged May loyalist.
Yes I’m amazed as the rest of you but No Deal is a disaster and this deal respects the main referendum commitment to end free movement and doesn’t crash the economy.
Plus the opponents to this deal are people who I so detest so she must be doing something right.
I mean look at how stupid David Davis was shown to be yesterday.
Now completely backed into a corner, Brexiteer proclaims their latest spin attempt "smart"...
The Mickey Fab plan is smart. The ERG have been forced to accept a smarter plan by smarter people. It does mean that they are now at least listening to people who know what they're doing. It also makes them much more dangerous.
The resistance now has a leader that knows what he's doing, and his name is FABRICANT.
Amongst the mockery it seems they're planning on going for Mickey Fab's post vote ambush plan.
Don't tell them Pike.
Be bloody funny if a handful of May loyalists put in their letters to force the issue and made her safe for a year.
Is there such a thing as a "May Loyalist" ?
The fact the ERG are struggling to get to 28 letters should be in no way seen as the Tory Party having any love or loyalty to Theresa May....
I’m a fully fledged May loyalist.
Yes I’m amazed as the rest of you but No Deal is a disaster and this deal respects the main referendum commitment to end free movement and doesn’t crash the economy.
Plus the opponents to this deal are people who I so detest so she must be doing something right.
I mean look at how stupid David Davis was shown to be yesterday.
And me
Me too, as Dura points put.
If rebels are relying on Michael Fabricant, he makes even Baldrick's 'cunning plans' look clever
The backstop is the single greatest error of May's career of terrible errors.
The backstop might be the single greatest foreign policy fuck up in UK politics since Suez?
The backstop needs to die, and that means May's dodgy deal needs to die, and that means May's career needs to die. There must be no forgiveness for a fuckup of this magnitude.
Fine.
Have you checked with the EU that the end of Mrs May's career would kill off the backstop? Just thought it would be as well to give them a buzz first to check there are no snags.
Maybe not. But May still deserves to be made to pay for an unforced fuckup of this astonishingly huge magnitude.
Whoever has to suffer by picking through the smoldering remains of her disastrous idiocy, it cannot be her.
If anything was a fuck up, it was not making clear before the referendum that the British state would uphold its previous commitments to Northern Ireland even if it made a UK-wide Brexit impossible.
It's unreasonable to argue that the GFA must override the constitutional wish of a majority of British voters to leave the European Union, particularly as the GFA does not bind any part of the UK to remain in the European Union.
The process that led to the GFA included a binding commitment on the part of the British government that arrangements on the island of Ireland were a matter for the people of the island of Ireland. Northern Ireland voted Remain, and Ireland didn't ask for Brexit at all.
The Courts have rejected any attempt to claim that Brexit violates the GFA.
An unspoken assumption that the UK would remain within the EU is not worth the paper it's written on.
Forget about the GFA and read the Downing Street Declaration.
The Downing Street Declaration is just that, a declaration. It does not constitute a treaty, or indeed, any binding obligation on the UK.
Amongst the mockery it seems they're planning on going for Mickey Fab's post vote ambush.
Which is smart. Because then that isn't an ERG move, it is a much wider Party move.
And so is much more dangerous for May.
Less smart, more obvious. It's only smart by comparison to Mogg's profoundly stupid actions last week.
Rowing in behind it is smart. Especially when you haven't spotted it's what the rest of the party are doing - and a chunk of those you thought were "supporters"!
The Mickey Fab plan is smart. The ERG have been forced to accept a smarter plan by smarter people. It does mean that they are now at least listening to people who know what they're doing. It also makes them much more dangerous.
The resistance now has a leader that knows what he's doing, and his name is FABRICANT.
Now completely backed into a corner, Brexiteer proclaims their latest spin attempt "smart"...
The Mickey Fab plan is smart. The ERG have been forced to accept a smarter plan by smarter people. It does mean that they are now at least listening to people who know what they're doing. It also makes them much more dangerous.
The resistance now has a leader that knows what he's doing, and his name is FABRICANT.
Amongst the mockery it seems they're planning on going for Mickey Fab's post vote ambush.
Which is smart. Because then that isn't an ERG move, it is a much wider Party move.
And so is much more dangerous for May.
Less smart, more obvious. It's only smart by comparison to Mogg's profoundly stupid actions last week.
Rowing in behind it is smart. Especially when you haven't spotted it's what the rest of the party are doing - and a chunk of those you thought were "supporters"!
What the fuck are you talking about? Last Thursday it became very clear that May's deal was doomed but that at the moment the numbers don't exist to remove her. It doesn't take a brain the size of a planet to know at that point that the ERG should sit tight, not make a big song and dance of launching a failed coup to kill an already dead deal.
Amongst the mockery it seems they're planning on going for Mickey Fab's post vote ambush.
Which is smart. Because then that isn't an ERG move, it is a much wider Party move.
And so is much more dangerous for May.
Less smart, more obvious. It's only smart by comparison to Mogg's profoundly stupid actions last week.
Rowing in behind it is smart. Especially when you haven't spotted it's what the rest of the party are doing - and a chunk of those you thought were "supporters"!
What the fuck are you talking about? Last Thursday it became very clear that May's deal was doomed but that at the moment the numbers don't exist to remove her. It doesn't take a brain the size of a planet to know at that point that the ERG should sit tight, not make a big song and dance of launching a failed coup to kill an already dead deal.
I thought she was supposed to be the smart one of the family. Given dad spent 2 years banging on about private email servers etc, how could she not be aware of the rules?
Amongst the mockery it seems they're planning on going for Mickey Fab's post vote ambush.
Which is smart. Because then that isn't an ERG move, it is a much wider Party move.
And so is much more dangerous for May.
Less smart, more obvious. It's only smart by comparison to Mogg's profoundly stupid actions last week.
Rowing in behind it is smart. Especially when you haven't spotted it's what the rest of the party are doing - and a chunk of those you thought were "supporters"!
What the fuck are you talking about? Last Thursday it became very clear that May's deal was doomed but that at the moment the numbers don't exist to remove her. It doesn't take a brain the size of a planet to know at that point that the ERG should sit tight, not make a big song and dance of launching a failed coup to kill an already dead deal.
It's hard to decide what I like more about Fabricant: the 1965 vintage Peter Noone wig or that time he called a teenage girl "a complete twat" on twitter.
Oh yeah, the apartheid flag on the mantelpiece. That was a nice touch as well.
The backstop is the single greatest error of May's career of terrible errors.
The backstop might be the single greatest foreign policy fuck up in UK politics since Suez?
The backstop needs to die, and that means May's dodgy deal needs to die, and that means May's career needs to die. There must be no forgiveness for a fuckup of this magnitude.
Fine.
Have you checked with the EU that the end of Mrs May's career would kill off the backstop? Just thought it would be as well to give them a buzz first to check there are no snags.
Maybe not. But May still deserves to be made to pay for an unforced fuckup of this astonishingly huge magnitude.
Whoever has to suffer by picking through the smoldering remains of her disastrous idiocy, it cannot be her.
If anything was a fuck up, it was not making clear before the referendum that the British state would uphold its previous commitments to Northern Ireland even if it made a UK-wide Brexit impossible.
It's unreasonable to argue that the GFA must override the constitutional wish of a majority of British voters to leave the European Union, particularly as the GFA does not bind any part of the UK to remain in the European Union.
The process that led to the GFA included a binding commitment on the part of the British government that arrangements on the island of Ireland were a matter for the people of the island of Ireland. Northern Ireland voted Remain, and Ireland didn't ask for Brexit at all.
The Courts have rejected any attempt to claim that Brexit violates the GFA.
An unspoken assumption that the UK would remain within the EU is not worth the paper it's written on.
Forget about the GFA and read the Downing Street Declaration.
The Downing Street Declaration is just that, a declaration. It does not constitute a treaty, or indeed, any binding obligation on the UK.
Isn’t trade across the border one of the areas that is subject to cooperation and agreement under the North/South Ministerial Council as required by the GFA? Genuinely don’t know whether this is relevant or not. Also, is it a coincidence that the Assembly and NI Executive are suspended during this period? Is it the aim of the DUP to exploit Brexit in some way to bring about an end to the GFA? Again, would welcome comment from anyone who understands NI politics better than me.
Now completely backed into a corner, Brexiteer proclaims their latest spin attempt "smart"...
The Mickey Fab plan is smart. The ERG have been forced to accept a smarter plan by smarter people. It does mean that they are now at least listening to people who know what they're doing. It also makes them much more dangerous.
The resistance now has a leader that knows what he's doing, and his name is FABRICANT.
Indeed. Better to have a latent threat, a fleet in being to commit only when your opponent is at their weakest, than no threat at all.
"I believe that if the current Chequers plan were rejected, she would apply her talents to delivering a Brexit which would work in the national interest while not binding us to Brussels. And if she is not prepared to pivot and work for a no-deal Brexit, then – and only then – will I be free to write my letter to Sir Graham."
Amongst the mockery it seems they're planning on going for Mickey Fab's post vote ambush.
Which is smart. Because then that isn't an ERG move, it is a much wider Party move.
And so is much more dangerous for May.
May would still win it anyway as most Tory MPs want a Deal and there is no alternative to this one
By that point she may have massively lost a vote and looking at cap in hand back to the EU or no deal.
At that point a new leader would be a smart move for the party.
Regardless May will not budge as long as she cannot be toppled, she May even call EUref2 if she cannot get her Deal through to screw the ERG who are now her enemies and that would pass Parliament over No Deal
More Remainer gaslighting. Not to mention pretty distasteful slurs on those with mental health issues.
It's what lost 'em a referendum I guess.
When SeanT published a piece on Telegraph asking if atheists were mentally ill that was fine.
Do you have a link to that article? SeanT on the ontology of faith might be moderately diverting. I think St Anselm, Augustine and Aquinas will be looking down fearing for their reputations.
Its odd how some people don't seem to understand the difference between guff spouted by a politician to influence a vote, and detailed specific explanations by business and industry as to how their businesses and industries actually work.
More Remainer gaslighting. Not to mention pretty distasteful slurs on those with mental health issues.
It's what lost 'em a referendum I guess.
When SeanT published a piece on Telegraph asking if atheists were mentally ill that was fine.
Do you have a link to that article? SeanT on the ontology of faith might be moderately diverting. I think St Anselm, Augustine and Aquinas will be looking down fearing for their reputations.
You’ll have to ask Sean, it was wiped when the Telegraph changed their blogs.
Why would the lead economist of the official Leave campaign, want us to join the Euro?
He's basically a strong believer in having a clear national story. Either we (and the wider British diaspora via CANZUK) should be a separate force in global geopolitics, or Britain should fully commit to European integration. What he doesn't like is muddled ambiguity.
All going well here in Wales with labour's new 'Transport for Wales' franchise
TFW have apologised after more than a quarter of it's trains were left needing repairs mainly because of 'leaves on the track'. 36 trains out of 127 are under repair. Repair work was also being done on trains damaged during storm Callum. TFW and Network Rail have issued a joint apology.
So how does nationalisation help. Mind you in Wales nationalisation is off the table as Welsh labour has signed a 15 year franchise
TFW Rail is not nationalized, it’s operated by Keolis Amey. The difference is that it’s let as a concession on the same model as Merseyrail and the London Overground, a model which has proven very successful.
And as to leaves on the tracks disabling trains, this is a very real problem: the leaves form a mulch on the rail which causes the train wheels to slip and then slide along the track. This causes flats to form on the wheels, which if not addressed will develop until the wheels won’t roll at all. Fixing them requires the wheels to be turned on a lathe. It’s not just Wales: it’s a nation- indeed world- wide problem. We have exactly the same problem on the NYC area commuter rail.
The degree of the problem varies from year to year depending on the weather. It is a bigger problem in modern times than it was in the past for a number of reasons. The end of steam traction means that the railway doesn’t as aggressively cut back vegetation close to the line as it once did as the risk of lineside fires from sparks and hot ash from steam locomotives has gone away. Of course, when Network Rail tries to return to more aggressive vegetation management to prevent leaf-fall, everyone starts complaining about trees being cut down. The switch of train brakes to much more efficient disk brakes has not helped either, as the traditional brake blocks would help scrape the lead mulch off the wheels.
So it’s a bit unfair to blame politicians and management in Wales for something that is caused by nature and is a problem world-wide.
Its odd how some people don't seem to understand the difference between guff spouted by a politician to influence a vote, and detailed specific explanations by business and industry as to how their businesses and industries actually work.
Maybe the difference does not matter. Only Brexit matters and it is consequence free .... apparently
All going well here in Wales with labour's new 'Transport for Wales' franchise
TFW have apologised after more than a quarter of it's trains were left needing repairs mainly because of 'leaves on the track'. 36 trains out of 127 are under repair. Repair work was also being done on trains damaged during storm Callum. TFW and Network Rail have issued a joint apology.
So how does nationalisation help. Mind you in Wales nationalisation is off the table as Welsh labour has signed a 15 year franchise
TFW Rail is not nationalized, it’s operated by Keolis Amey. The difference is that it’s let as a concession on the same model as Merseyrail and the London Overground, a model which has proven very successful.
And as to leaves on the tracks disabling trains, this is a very real problem: the leaves form a mulch on the rail which causes the train wheels to slip and then slide along the track. This causes flats to form on the wheels, which if not addressed will develop until the wheels won’t roll at all. Fixing them requires the wheels to be turned on a lathe. It’s not just Wales: it’s a nation- indeed world- wide problem. We have exactly the same problem on the NYC area commuter rail.
The degree of the problem varies from year to year depending on the weather. It is a bigger problem in modern times than it was in the past for a number of reasons. The end of steam traction means that the railway doesn’t as aggressively cut back vegetation close to the line as it once did as the risk of lineside fires from sparks and hot ash from steam locomotives has gone away. Of course, when Network Rail tries to return to more aggressive vegetation management to prevent leaf-fall, everyone starts complaining about trees being cut down. The switch of train brakes to much more efficient disk brakes has not helped either, as the traditional brake blocks would help scrape the lead mulch off the wheels.
So it’s a bit unfair to blame politicians and management in Wales for something that is caused by nature and is a problem world-wide.
I'd wish politicians would spend a little more time looking at the concessionary model: after all, we have experience of it, and it might be a reasonable alternative to both the current franchise system and the full-fat renationalised BR.
As for the problems with leaf mulch: bring back the Swedish Scrubbers ...
Its odd how some people don't seem to understand the difference between guff spouted by a politician to influence a vote, and detailed specific explanations by business and industry as to how their businesses and industries actually work.
Yes and Carney though not a politician was saying more of the former than the latter.
The backstop is the single greatest error of May's career of terrible errors.
The backstop might be the single greatest foreign policy fuck up in UK politics since Suez?
The backstop needs to die, and that means May's dodgy deal needs to die, and that means May's career needs to die. There must be no forgiveness for a fuckup of this magnitude.
Fine.
Have you checked with the EU that the end of Mrs May's career would kill off the backstop? Just thought it would be as well to give them a buzz first to check there are no snags.
If the new PM says 'over my dead body' to the backstop then yes it would. It wasn't even in their original proposals, it only came in when May revealed how weak she was and it was pathetic to agree to it.
The EU have been absolutely clear No backstop and guarantee of No hard border in Ireland then No Deal.
That means there is no alternative deal to May's achievable from an alternative Tory leader, the only alternative is permanent Customs Union for the whole UK from PM Corbyn quite probably with permanent Single Market too as the SNP will demand that and he will need them for a majority
They're bluffing.
No they are not, No Deal screws us more than them. We are just 16% of their exports, they are 44% of ours
That's moot. It isn't the EU that wants the backstop, it is the Irish. If the EU said the backstop wasn't needed, the Germans wouldn't insist upon it.
- It is not the case that the UK could have prepared for 'no deal', it is simply not possible for us unilaterally to avoid the disastrous consequences. It is a blame-shifting fantasy to say it's all Theresa May's fault for not planning for no deal.
Following on from that, I think the EU have over-reached by insisting on the Irish backstop, with potentially disastrous consequence for both sides, but I don't think they will back down on this.
The EU are playing hardball because we wanted a free trade agreement.
May should have realised that wasn't possible ages ago instead of capitulating on everything else.
It is absolutely her fault that they continued down this path long after it was shown that we couldn't get any acceptable deal from it.
Or maybe Brexit is like the squareroot of -1? Only imaginary solutions exist.
It's impossible to leave the EU?
FFS it was easier for countries to get out of the Soviet Union. The comparisons get ever more apt every day don't they?
We spent 40+ years integrating ourselves into Europe. Do you seriously imagine we can undo all that in 2 years?
We could really do hard, hard Brexit. Just stop interacting with Europe, refuse to pay anything, put barriers on all ports or entry. Of course the country would grind to a halt and food shortages would become a reality very quickly. About 30% of our food comes directly from Europe as does peak energy demands from the cross-channel grids.
If we had the sort of Brexit some of the economically illiterate Leavers keep banging on about then it really would feel like the Soviet Union with queues for potatoes and foodstuffs.
But that would fine wouldn't it?
Alternatively we can leave without putting up barriers. And it was your beloved EU that decided 2 years and no longer than 2 years (with no pre-notification talks allowed) is appropriate.
And it was a British Lawyer who wrote the 2 years bit into the treaty....
Edit: If we do not put up barriers then our own industry is exposed to worldwide competition which will undercut many of them.
No they are not, No Deal screws us more than them. We are just 16% of their exports, they are 44% of ours
That really is sophistry.
The only comparison that matters is that in absolute terms of total value we sell about half as much to the EU as they sell to us.
It is also the case that the UK's huge and unsustainable balance of trade deficit with the world is entirely accounted for by our trade with the EU alone. So if we believe the scare stories of Project Fear and conclude that the UK would be unable to export to the EU and vice versa, the consequence would be that UK's historic balance of payments problem would be solved overnight.
The backstop is the single greatest error of May's career of terrible errors.
The backstop might be the single greatest foreign policy fuck up in UK politics since Suez?
The backstop needs to die, and that means May's dodgy deal needs to die, and that means May's career needs to die. There must be no forgiveness for a fuckup of this magnitude.
Fine.
Have you checked with the EU that the end of Mrs May's career would kill off the backstop? Just thought it would be as well to give them a buzz first to check there are no snags.
If the new PM says 'over my dead body' to the backstop then yes it would. It wasn't even in their original proposals, it only came in when May revealed how weak she was and it was pathetic to agree to it.
The EU have been absolutely clear No backstop and guarantee of No hard border in Ireland then No Deal.
That means there is no alternative deal to May's achievable from an alternative Tory leader, the only alternative is permanent Customs Union for the whole UK from PM Corbyn quite probably with permanent Single Market too as the SNP will demand that and he will need them for a majority
They're bluffing.
No they are not, No Deal screws us more than them. We are just 16% of their exports, they are 44% of ours
So if I threatened to cut your foot and my leg off, then you'd be OK with that, as it would hurt me more than you? I'd wager you'd be looking at alternatives that involved no amputations if you thought I even might be serious.
Stop f##king lying.....her tw@tter timeline was stuffed with similar hate.
One odd thing is the Union boss did not know what the painting depicted. Perhaps the vice chancellor should get a description placed underneath it, as happens in art galleries, and any other paintings and statues knocking about the place.
Comments
If we didn't have a PM who was so useless at anything other than capitulation we'd be able to pull them back from the precipice.
The UK government should pass some emergency legislation making backstops of any kind illegal. Focus a few minds.
In case you think I’m joking...
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/northern-ireland-would-plunge-to-the-level-of-a-developing-nation-if-we-lost-uk-subsidies-1-8598687/amp
It's the same "leverage" they keep saying we have with the EU...
I think I'd set aside a full afternoon just to point and laugh at each member of the the ERG in turn.
Anyway, I must be off. Do play nicely, everyone.
An unspoken assumption that the UK would remain within the EU is not worth the paper it's written on.
The fact the ERG are struggling to get to 48 letters should be in no way seen as the Tory Party having any love or loyalty to Theresa May....
Plus we'd be better off staying anyway.
All going well here in Wales with labour's new 'Transport for Wales' franchise
TFW have apologised after more than a quarter of it's trains were left needing repairs mainly because of 'leaves on the track'. 36 trains out of 127 are under repair. Repair work was also being done on trains damaged during storm Callum. TFW and Network Rail have issued a joint apology.
So how does nationalisation help. Mind you in Wales nationalisation is off the table as Welsh labour has signed a 15 year franchise
But now you don't want one with the EU.
Or were you cutting and pasting from the Daily Mash? Difficult to tell with you hardcore leavers these days.
Many Brexiteers have not signed letters that does not mean they would not back a Brexiteer in a leadership vote but there will not be one anyway as May will survive any no confidence vote
Yes I’m amazed as the rest of you but No Deal is a disaster and this deal respects the main referendum commitment to end free movement and doesn’t crash the economy.
Plus the opponents to this deal are people who I so detest so she must be doing something right.
I mean look at how stupid David Davis was shown to be yesterday.
And so is much more dangerous for May.
This comment, however, is a laugh at one.
https://torrentfreak.com/upload-filters-article-13-the-latest-eu-proposals-181120/
They will remain loyal until the precise moment of the meaningful vote. Then ALL HELL will break loose, whatever happens.
The ERG completely fucked up their coup.
Now completely backed into a corner, Brexiteer proclaims their latest spin attempt "smart"...
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1064799097545269249?s=21
The resistance now has a leader that knows what he's doing, and his name is FABRICANT.
If rebels are relying on Michael Fabricant, he makes even Baldrick's 'cunning plans' look clever
He's exhausting.
At that point a new leader would be a smart move for the party.
And by the way, I do not see TM leading my party post next spring
"I acted impulsively and as such fully accept how careless and hurtful my words were."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-46274283
Stop f##king lying.....her tw@tter timeline was stuffed with similar hate.
It's what lost 'em a referendum I guess.
It would unite the country.
https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1064856374184689664
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46271021
Lock her up....lock her up....
I thought she was supposed to be the smart one of the family. Given dad spent 2 years banging on about private email servers etc, how could she not be aware of the rules?
Oh yeah, the apartheid flag on the mantelpiece. That was a nice touch as well.
Please sort out your fellow Leavers, for the sake of the country.
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/746091433019453440
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/746091918648446977
"I believe that if the current Chequers plan were rejected, she would apply her talents to delivering a Brexit which would work in the national interest while not binding us to Brussels. And if she is not prepared to pivot and work for a no-deal Brexit, then – and only then – will I be free to write my letter to Sir Graham."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/18/michael-fabricant-mpwhy-wont-writing-letter-chairman-1922/
And as to leaves on the tracks disabling trains, this is a very real problem: the leaves form a mulch on the rail which causes the train wheels to slip and then slide along the track. This causes flats to form on the wheels, which if not addressed will develop until the wheels won’t roll at all. Fixing them requires the wheels to be turned on a lathe. It’s not just Wales: it’s a nation- indeed world- wide problem. We have exactly the same problem on the NYC area commuter rail.
The degree of the problem varies from year to year depending on the weather. It is a bigger problem in modern times than it was in the past for a number of reasons. The end of steam traction means that the railway doesn’t as aggressively cut back vegetation close to the line as it once did as the risk of lineside fires from sparks and hot ash from steam locomotives has gone away. Of course, when Network Rail tries to return to more aggressive vegetation management to prevent leaf-fall, everyone starts complaining about trees being cut down. The switch of train brakes to much more efficient disk brakes has not helped either, as the traditional brake blocks would help scrape the lead mulch off the wheels.
So it’s a bit unfair to blame politicians and management in Wales for something that is caused by nature and is a problem world-wide.
Joaquim, fetch me my helicopter
As for the problems with leaf mulch: bring back the Swedish Scrubbers ...
What proportion of Irish exports rely upon us?
The only comparison that matters is that in absolute terms of total value we sell about half as much to the EU as they sell to us.
It is also the case that the UK's huge and unsustainable balance of trade deficit with the world is entirely accounted for by our trade with the EU alone. So if we believe the scare stories of Project Fear and conclude that the UK would be unable to export to the EU and vice versa, the consequence would be that UK's historic balance of payments problem would be solved overnight.