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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What’ll be critical in the next week or so is whether this

SystemSystem Posts: 11,690
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What’ll be critical in the next week or so is whether this week’s EURef developments will be reflected in the polling

UPDATED table of published #EURef poll where actual question was put pic.twitter.com/ReoZqCRkOD

Read the full story here


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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,908
    First?
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Deux ?
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    Bonkers Batwomen on BBC 1 at the moment...
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    I would look at net changes not leads, not with polling being in the dumpster accuracy wise.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    Batwomen just let something really big out of the bag....has basically admitted to misappropriating money and is willing to break the law if "the law of the land" isn't right to helping kids.

    Who the hell ever thought this women should ever be personally in charge of £100's millions.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    FPT:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    I take any opinion poll with a large pitch of salt, but it's the first entirely post Iowa national poll:

    http://morningconsult.com/2016/02/poll-sanders-and-rubio-gain-after-iowa/

    Trump 38 0
    Cruz 14 +1
    Rubio 12 +2
    Carson 9 -1
    Bush 5 -1
    Christie 3 -1
    Fiorina 3 +1
    Kasich 2 -1
    Santorum 1 0 (dropped out today)

    Hillary 51 0
    Sanders 35 +4

    Question for me is: where will Cruz supporters go if he drops out?

    If he doesn't then Rubio + Bush + Christie + Kasich + Firoina don't equal Trump (or come close; he'd still have a 12-13% lead over all combined) so, unless the polls are quite wrong, it'll come down to how the delegates pan out state-by-state over a long race, because I don't think the Trump base is going anywhere.
    Cruz's problem is that his states are early and proportional. Rubio's states are late and winner takes all.

    There's another problem with Cruz: he won't win a brokered convention because nobody likes him.
    I'm not bothering with Cruz: it's a Trump v. Rubio fight.

    I need to understand the state by state maths and voting systems much better, and to then review polls.

    Where (who?) has the best guide?
    The Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016) lists all the states and how they award delegates.

    Florida, on March 15, is the first winner take all state.

    Use that plus http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/beware-a-gop-calendar-front-loaded-with-states-friendly-to-trump-and-cruz/ to get a feel.

    I've built an Excel model with various assumptions. It basically gives Trump the nomination 80% of the time, Rubio 20%. But I suspect Rubio's poll share is understated. So, Trump is probably 50-60%, and Rubio 30-40%.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Still too close to call with online polls. It'll be interesting to see what the next phone poll shows.
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    Third world war room on BBC2. Border of Latvia being undermined and the "experts" in UK split on sending in Nato troops. Lady Lib Dem peer on of those against action. No surprise there.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,908

    Batwomen just let something really big out of the bag....has basically admitted to misappropriating money and is willing to break the law if "the law of the land" isn't right.

    Oops. That will be for the judge to decide.

    Does she think we should all ignore laws we don't like, or is it just her that's so special?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    Sandpit said:

    Batwomen just let something really big out of the bag....has basically admitted to misappropriating money and is willing to break the law if "the law of the land" isn't right.

    Oops. That will be for the judge to decide.

    Does she think we should all ignore laws we don't like, or is it just her that's so special?
    That appeared to be her attitude.

    The BBC programme is totally wrong in the sense that the women behind the documentary is a personal long time friend of Batwomen. It is way too much, "but think of the kids"...insert heart felt music....
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    Batwomen just let something really big out of the bag....has basically admitted to misappropriating money and is willing to break the law if "the law of the land" isn't right to helping kids.

    Who the hell every thought this women should ever be personally in charge of £100's millions.

    I will have to watch later to see the whole thing. From previous comments she seems utterly lacking in any self awareness or ideas of responsibility - I would very much like to meet her and see her so called force of personality which so enraptured ministers and public figures, because certainly as the house of cards she built (on public money, for little gain it would seem) she seems to be nothing but puffed up bluster and lazy 'the media won't wear it' type tactics to get politicians on side (until the media turned on her, at which point they became the enemy) for fear of looking like they don't care about kids, to the point they will continue to waste money helping not as many as they could to shut her up. Quite why that so cowed people from seeing through her IDK, hence wishing to meet her in person to see the effect of her supposed charisma.
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    Sandpit said:

    Batwomen just let something really big out of the bag....has basically admitted to misappropriating money and is willing to break the law if "the law of the land" isn't right.

    Oops. That will be for the judge to decide.

    Does she think we should all ignore laws we don't like, or is it just her that's so special?
    That appeared to be her attitude.
    The BBC programme is totally wrong in the sense that the women behind the documentary is a personal long time friend of Batwomen. It is way too much, "but think of the kids"...insert heart felt music....
    No danger to impartiality then?
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    Big fight in US media with Ted Cruz vs the World at this moment over his Iowa shenanigans, to give you an example:

    Mediaite ‏@Mediaite 27m27 minutes ago
    'That Was BS': CNN's Baldwin Rips Into Cruz for Throwing Her Network 'Under the Bus' http://bit.ly/1S11R4q VIDEO

    This gives you a small idea of what happened, a lot of conspiracy meat going around.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8hJofse56g
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    In the abstract you would expect a move to Remain at this point as the deal is unveiled and it controls the timing and agenda.

    So, a mild move to Remain is imo neutral (in particular, it's not especially bad news for Leave).

    Conversely, if the polls are static or move to Leave that is sinister for Remain.

    Obviously if there's a strong move to Remain, that's good for Remain, bad for Leave.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    Now a story of "Kids Company" helping a 34 year old from Jamaica for past 13 years, paying for everything for her....interesting definition of a "kid"...

    And Batwomen has now admitted that "in theory we shouldn't be supporting her"....clearly laws and rules don't apply to her.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,908

    Sandpit said:

    Batwomen just let something really big out of the bag....has basically admitted to misappropriating money and is willing to break the law if "the law of the land" isn't right.

    Oops. That will be for the judge to decide.

    Does she think we should all ignore laws we don't like, or is it just her that's so special?
    That appeared to be her attitude.
    The BBC programme is totally wrong in the sense that the women behind the documentary is a personal long time friend of Batwomen. It is way too much, "but think of the kids"...insert heart felt music....
    No danger to impartiality then?
    I guess the BBC only have a short window between last week's enquiry and any criminal charges to run their hagiography, in the hope that there might be some public sympathy for her by the time she's front of the jury.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Report on Batwoman & Yentob is quite damning.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmpubadm/433/43309.htm#_idTextAnchor127

    18.Mr Yentob acknowledges his poor judgement in respect of his position at the BBC during the summer of 2015. His actions were unwise at best, and deliberately intimidating at worst. He has since resigned his main position at the BBC but he still retains substantial responsibilities within the organisation and oversees substantial budgets. It is not within the remit of this Committee to comment on the governance of the BBC, but the proper governance of conflicts of interest and standards of behaviour – particularly amongst its senior executives – is a very serious matter for any reputable organisation. That a senior figure could act in this way and it could take so long for action to be taken reflects poorly on the BBC’s leadership. (Paragraph 70).

    Can't see him spinning out of that one.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Third world war room on BBC2. Border of Latvia being undermined and the "experts" in UK split on sending in Nato troops. Lady Lib Dem peer on of those against action. No surprise there.

    It is a work of fiction!
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    If you aren't watching this on BBC, you have to....she is totally and utterly bonkers and totally unsuitable to give any real money to...and this is a documentary from a long term friend doing the best with the material to make her look good.
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    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    I take any opinion poll with a large pitch of salt, but it's the first entirely post Iowa national poll:

    http://morningconsult.com/2016/02/poll-sanders-and-rubio-gain-after-iowa/

    Trump 38 0
    Cruz 14 +1
    Rubio 12 +2
    Carson 9 -1
    Bush 5 -1
    Christie 3 -1
    Fiorina 3 +1
    Kasich 2 -1
    Santorum 1 0 (dropped out today)

    Hillary 51 0
    Sanders 35 +4

    That looks very similar to the NH numbers on the GOP side, so Marcomentum has seen him leap from a strong third place in Iowa all the way to... third place!!
    There is still the Saturday debate to come.
    Right now I have the suspicion that N.H. will be a pretty close 3 way race despite what polls say at the moment, S.Carolina will be the key state for the top 3.

    Nothing is inscribed in stone, not with a debate 4 days before voting and a severe snowstorm on voting day.
    So you think the fix is in? Problem is Trump is too far ahead in NH, but I suppose a suspiciously strong second place for Rubio and surprise sub 30s from Trump would do it.

    Seriously I fail to see a single state Rubio can win, that is his problem, well behind Trump even in Florida. Trump will take the South, not Cruz, and Greater New England including the Rustbelt Trump will crush it with all the delegates that that region holds.

    Rubio just isn't popular as his polling shows, just so vulnerable on immigration, intelligence and foreign policy.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Third world war room on BBC2. Border of Latvia being undermined and the "experts" in UK split on sending in Nato troops. Lady Lib Dem peer on of those against action. No surprise there.

    It is a work of fiction!
    It sure is, the russians are already in Latvia, their capital is majority russian.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    LondonBob said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    I take any opinion poll with a large pitch of salt, but it's the first entirely post Iowa national poll:

    http://morningconsult.com/2016/02/poll-sanders-and-rubio-gain-after-iowa/

    Trump 38 0
    Cruz 14 +1
    Rubio 12 +2
    Carson 9 -1
    Bush 5 -1
    Christie 3 -1
    Fiorina 3 +1
    Kasich 2 -1
    Santorum 1 0 (dropped out today)

    Hillary 51 0
    Sanders 35 +4

    That looks very similar to the NH numbers on the GOP side, so Marcomentum has seen him leap from a strong third place in Iowa all the way to... third place!!
    There is still the Saturday debate to come.
    Right now I have the suspicion that N.H. will be a pretty close 3 way race despite what polls say at the moment, S.Carolina will be the key state for the top 3.

    Nothing is inscribed in stone, not with a debate 4 days before voting and a severe snowstorm on voting day.
    So you think the fix is in? Problem is Trump is too far ahead in NH, but I suppose a suspiciously strong second place for Rubio and surprise sub 30s from Trump would do it.

    Seriously I fail to see a single state Rubio can win, that is his problem, well behind Trump even in Florida. Trump will take the South, not Cruz, and Greater New England including the Rustbelt Trump will crush it with all the delegates that that region holds.

    Rubio just isn't popular as his polling shows, just so vulnerable on immigration, intelligence and foreign policy.
    Even if Cruz wins every Santorum state, which he won't, he's still miles and miles from the nomination.

    Trump is the value bet.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Who the hell every thought this women should ever be personally in charge of £100's millions.

    The Prime Minister, among others
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    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    I take any opinion poll with a large pitch of salt, but it's the first entirely post Iowa national poll:

    http://morningconsult.com/2016/02/poll-sanders-and-rubio-gain-after-iowa/

    Trump 38 0
    Cruz 14 +1
    Rubio 12 +2
    Carson 9 -1
    Bush 5 -1
    Christie 3 -1
    Fiorina 3 +1
    Kasich 2 -1
    Santorum 1 0 (dropped out today)

    Hillary 51 0
    Sanders 35 +4

    Question for me is: where will Cruz supporters go if he drops out?

    If he doesn't then Rubio + Bush + Christie + Kasich + Firoina don't equal Trump (or come close; he'd still have a 12-13% lead over all combined) so, unless the polls are quite wrong, it'll come down to how the delegates pan out state-by-state over a long race, because I don't think the Trump base is going anywhere.
    Cruz's problem is that his states are early and proportional. Rubio's states are late and winner takes all.

    There's another problem with Cruz: he won't win a brokered convention because nobody likes him.
    I'm not bothering with Cruz: it's a Trump v. Rubio fight.

    I need to understand the state by state maths and voting systems much better, and to then review polls.

    Where (who?) has the best guide?
    The Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016) lists all the states and how they award delegates.

    Florida, on March 15, is the first winner take all state.

    Use that plus http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/beware-a-gop-calendar-front-loaded-with-states-friendly-to-trump-and-cruz/ to get a feel.

    I've built an Excel model with various assumptions. It basically gives Trump the nomination 80% of the time, Rubio 20%. But I suspect Rubio's poll share is understated. So, Trump is probably 50-60%, and Rubio 30-40%.
    So you are taking as much of this Trump @ 4.2 as you can?
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    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    I take any opinion poll with a large pitch of salt, but it's the first entirely post Iowa national poll:

    http://morningconsult.com/2016/02/poll-sanders-and-rubio-gain-after-iowa/

    Trump 38 0
    Cruz 14 +1
    Rubio 12 +2
    Carson 9 -1
    Bush 5 -1
    Christie 3 -1
    Fiorina 3 +1
    Kasich 2 -1
    Santorum 1 0 (dropped out today)

    Hillary 51 0
    Sanders 35 +4

    Question for me is: where will Cruz supporters go if he drops out?

    If he doesn't then Rubio + Bush + Christie + Kasich + Firoina don't equal Trump (or come close; he'd still have a 12-13% lead over all combined) so, unless the polls are quite wrong, it'll come down to how the delegates pan out state-by-state over a long race, because I don't think the Trump base is going anywhere.
    Cruz's problem is that his states are early and proportional. Rubio's states are late and winner takes all.

    There's another problem with Cruz: he won't win a brokered convention because nobody likes him.
    I'm not bothering with Cruz: it's a Trump v. Rubio fight.

    I need to understand the state by state maths and voting systems much better, and to then review polls.

    Where (who?) has the best guide?
    The Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016) lists all the states and how they award delegates.

    Florida, on March 15, is the first winner take all state.

    Use that plus http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/beware-a-gop-calendar-front-loaded-with-states-friendly-to-trump-and-cruz/ to get a feel.

    I've built an Excel model with various assumptions. It basically gives Trump the nomination 80% of the time, Rubio 20%. But I suspect Rubio's poll share is understated. So, Trump is probably 50-60%, and Rubio 30-40%.
    Thanks. I need to decide if I can be arsed to build a similar simple model.

    Probably should.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    And she has admitted to misusing the government money....the money earmarked to pay for redundancies was used to pay wages....

    Never seems to occur to her that possibly there might be a problem with the organisation if you can't make payroll without constant new sources of money from government and the rich, above and beyond what has already been pumped in. It is like a weird sort of ponzi scheme.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    Alistair said:

    So you are taking as much of this Trump @ 4.2 as you can?

    Selling Hillary at 2s for POTUS, buying Trump at 4s for the Republican nomination: both are amazing bets.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't see that in the renegotiation.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    AndyJS said:

    Still too close to call with online polls. It'll be interesting to see what the next phone poll shows.

    They're showing a clear Remain lead once you add the DKs to Remain.

    Ignore the DKs at your peril.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    Pulpstar said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't see that in the renegotiation.
    Us making UK courts superior to the EHCR is nothing to do with the EU.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Now a story of "Kids Company" helping a 34 year old from Jamaica for past 13 years, paying for everything for her....interesting definition of a "kid"...

    And Batwomen has now admitted that "in theory we shouldn't be supporting her"....clearly laws and rules don't apply to her.

    Just switched on to hear someone screaming "I want my money, I want my money!"
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    LondonBob said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    I take any opinion poll with a large pitch of salt, but it's the first entirely post Iowa national poll:

    http://morningconsult.com/2016/02/poll-sanders-and-rubio-gain-after-iowa/

    Trump 38 0
    Cruz 14 +1
    Rubio 12 +2
    Carson 9 -1
    Bush 5 -1
    Christie 3 -1
    Fiorina 3 +1
    Kasich 2 -1
    Santorum 1 0 (dropped out today)

    Hillary 51 0
    Sanders 35 +4

    That looks very similar to the NH numbers on the GOP side, so Marcomentum has seen him leap from a strong third place in Iowa all the way to... third place!!
    There is still the Saturday debate to come.
    Right now I have the suspicion that N.H. will be a pretty close 3 way race despite what polls say at the moment, S.Carolina will be the key state for the top 3.

    Nothing is inscribed in stone, not with a debate 4 days before voting and a severe snowstorm on voting day.
    So you think the fix is in? Problem is Trump is too far ahead in NH, but I suppose a suspiciously strong second place for Rubio and surprise sub 30s from Trump would do it.

    Seriously I fail to see a single state Rubio can win, that is his problem, well behind Trump even in Florida. Trump will take the South, not Cruz, and Greater New England including the Rustbelt Trump will crush it with all the delegates that that region holds.

    Rubio just isn't popular as his polling shows, just so vulnerable on immigration, intelligence and foreign policy.
    But he has the media, an unpopular person can still win the nomination with overwhelming media support (see Romney).
    In a 3 way race everything is possible, just look at the pileup on Cruz after his Iowa victory.

    The first primaries are all that matter and in those it's a game of musical chairs of who surges last, Rubio won that one in Iowa, let's see who will surge last in N.H and S.Carolina.

    Of course it's entirely possible that Rubio, having such a poor start, will surge last only to end up 3rd again.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    edited February 2016

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it (legal realities notwithstanding, people see standing up to 'more europe' as the same whether it's ECHR or EU, so those who want that may be mollifed on the EU front)

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Us making UK courts superior to the EHCR is nothing to do with the EU.

    Indeed - more misdirection.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    runnymede said:

    Who the hell every thought this women should ever be personally in charge of £100's millions.

    The Prime Minister, among others

    It's fair to say that I don't agree with everything you post but you are spot on about this. The really telling thing about this story is that our seemingly rational political elite were taken in by this utter bullshit.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't see that in the renegotiation.
    Us making UK courts superior to the EHCR is nothing to do with the EU.
    I thought it was a errm condition of EU membership !
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    Pulpstar said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't see that in the renegotiation.
    It's not, that's why it's a dead cat.

    It's Michael Gove's initiative on the repeal of the Human Rights Act and replacement with a British Bill of Rights.

    It will set up the UK Supreme Court as the UK constitutional court, like Germany has, and the inference is that it will be able to rule in favour of the UK on a constitution - rather than the ECHR - on things like prisoner votes.

    It won't do much, and has *nothing* to do with the renegotiation, but it is tangentially linked to "Europe".

    They calculate most people won't understand the difference.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639


    "hinting heavily"

    "attempt to ensure"

    Not very convincing.

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't see that in the renegotiation.
    Us making UK courts superior to the EHCR is nothing to do with the EU.
    No, but people associate them together - seeming to deal with one makes dealing with the other seem like it is also dealt with.

    So on reflection I was wrong, it is more of a dead cat strategy than I first thought.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it (legal realities notwithstanding, people see standing up to 'more europe' as the same whether it's ECHR or EU, so those who want that may be mollifed on the EU front)

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    Arrrgh why the hell did this bloody dead cat term come in.

    It's always been a stock market dead cat bounce.

    Grrrrrrrrrr!

    This raises my BP far more than it should.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Can I just point out;

    #cough

    "Pong • Posts: 1,869

    January 30

    Last chance to take punt against trump before people actually start voting and the odds change substantially.

    Will these elusive trumpers actually turnout? There's little evidence of a proper ground game in iowa, but perhaps trump doesn't need one?

    I'm betting against him @ evens.

    If I'm wrong and trump storms Iowa, his odds will plummet. If it's all hot air, or he underperforms, he may well have blown the nomination altogether.

    IMO, at evens, the risk is on trump.

    Lay."

    #cough
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    From what is shown in this documentary, if Batwomen ran a normal company, she should be disbarred from ever been in charge of a company ever again.

    Not only mismanagement, but an attitude that nothing applies to her. Laws, rule, regulations, they just don't apply. Government tell her the grant is for redundancy payments and she spends it on wages, then goes apeshit when they realise what she has done and ask for what is left of the money.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it (legal realities notwithstanding, people see standing up to 'more europe' as the same whether it's ECHR or EU, so those who want that may be mollifed on the EU front)

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    There would be no European retaliation as the EU is not a part of the EHCR, and its attempts to join it last year were rebuffed by the EHCR on the basis the EU is not a country.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
  • Options
    Boris video interesting here - some way down the article - he's clearly sniffing the wind:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35479506
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Alistair said:

    AndyJS said:

    Still too close to call with online polls. It'll be interesting to see what the next phone poll shows.

    They're showing a clear Remain lead once you add the DKs to Remain.

    Ignore the DKs at your peril.
    Phone polls show a majority of Tory voters choosing Remain, online polls show them choosing Leave, the same divide applies to pensioners.

    So here' s an experiment that I recommend, since PB is 80% Tory and over the age of 50, lets do a poll of PB users.
    If a majority comes in favour of Remain the phone polls are right, if it's Leave the online polls are right.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't see that in the renegotiation.
    Us making UK courts superior to the EHCR is nothing to do with the EU.
    No, but people associate them together - seeming to deal with one makes dealing with the other seem like it is also dealt with.

    So on reflection I was wrong, it is more of a dead cat strategy than I first thought.
    Imo a dead cat should be fully off-topic (as Fallon's brother-stabbing spiel was to the non-dom stuff). It shouldn't even be thematically connected.

    Perhaps today's dead cat was Lord Lucan's death certificate. Tomorrow's dead cat is Lord Lucan turning up alive after all.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639


    "hinting heavily"

    "attempt to ensure"

    Not very convincing.

    It was only due to the passing of the Human Rights Act in 1998 under Tony Blair's government that UK courts were made subserviant to the EHCR. If this act was repealed, and replaced by a British Bill of Rights, UK courts would no longer be subservient.

    Remember, the EHCR is nothing to do with the EU.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    What deluded idiots working for her as well...It worked, it worked, it didn't close because it didn't work, it closed because it ran out of money, and it only ran out of money because because because the media...

    It is like saying a ponzi scheme works, it just erhhh well runs out of new sources of money....
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it (legal realities notwithstanding, people see standing up to 'more europe' as the same whether it's ECHR or EU, so those who want that may be mollifed on the EU front)

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    Arrrgh why the hell did this bloody dead cat term come in.

    It's always been a stock market dead cat bounce.

    Grrrrrrrrrr!

    This raises my BP far more than it should.

    dead cat bounce - up-tick on stock that is still dead really

    throw dead cat on table - change narrative with shocking distraction

  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue.
    That's exactly what it is.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    And she has admitted to misusing the government money....the money earmarked to pay for redundancies was used to pay wages....

    Never seems to occur to her that possibly there might be a problem with the organisation if you can't make payroll without constant new sources of money from government and the rich, above and beyond what has already been pumped in. It is like a weird sort of ponzi scheme.

    Sounds awful, as though public money given for specific purposes has no strings attached because a single person knows best (despite such poor management).

    I do struggle with seeing the logic of her positioning, even from a 'think of the children' pov. Her organisation was collapsing despite repeated dumps of money, and even her definition of how many they helped includes people who didn't need it and is not as many as it should be for that amount of money, so how can she believe (as she has seemed to indicate in the past and I presume tonight) that the solution would be that the government must continue to pump money in no matter what?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    edited February 2016

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
    The EHCR is nothing to do with the EU. Opting out of the EHCR would do nothing to remedy any issues with the ECJ, it would merely undo the provisions of the 1998 Human Rights Act.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Wanderer said:

    runnymede said:

    Who the hell every thought this women should ever be personally in charge of £100's millions.

    The Prime Minister, among others

    It's fair to say that I don't agree with everything you post but you are spot on about this. The really telling thing about this story is that our seemingly rational political elite were taken in by this utter bullshit.
    Repeat the mantra, after me.

    Diversity is good.

    Diversity is cool.

    Diversity can do no wrong.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue.
    That's exactly what it is.
    Yes, I've changed my mind upon recalling the separateness of the ECHR and EU as issues, despite public consideration taking them as the same thing.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it (legal realities notwithstanding, people see standing up to 'more europe' as the same whether it's ECHR or EU, so those who want that may be mollifed on the EU front)

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    Arrrgh why the hell did this bloody dead cat term come in.

    It's always been a stock market dead cat bounce.

    Grrrrrrrrrr!

    This raises my BP far more than it should.

    dead cat bounce - up-tick on stock that is still dead really

    throw dead cat on table - change narrative with shocking distraction

    Yes. That confused usage is going to piss me off for the rest of my life.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
    The EHCR is nothing to do with the EU. Opting out of the EHCR would do nothing to remedy any issues with the ECJ, it would merely undo the provisions of the 1998 Human Rights Act.
    Robert. Don't confuse people with facts. It spoils their arguments.

  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
    The EHCR is nothing to do with the EU. Opting out of the EHCR would do nothing to remedy any issues with the ECJ, it would merely undo the provisions of the 1998 Human Rights Act.
    It's amazing how poorly this is understood.

    Incidentally, I support both Cameron and Gove 100% on the repeal of the 1998 HRA and their attempts to set up a UK constitutional court. It's a big reason why I voted Conservative last year.

    What I object to is taking advantage of people's confusion on this to bolster the case for Remain and link it to the deal; it's disingenuous.
  • Options
    Who is to blame....Batwomen.."the collective madness of the media and the government"..."no not me, I am not sorry, I am not sorry I bought the kids nice things"....
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    AndyJS said:

    Still too close to call with online polls. It'll be interesting to see what the next phone poll shows.

    They're showing a clear Remain lead once you add the DKs to Remain.

    Ignore the DKs at your peril.
    Phone polls show a majority of Tory voters choosing Remain, online polls show them choosing Leave, the same divide applies to pensioners.

    So here' s an experiment that I recommend, since PB is 80% Tory and over the age of 50, lets do a poll of PB users.
    If a majority comes in favour of Remain the phone polls are right, if it's Leave the online polls are right.
    Ok, take this poll then:-

    How will you vote in the EU referendum?

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it (legal realities notwithstanding, people see standing up to 'more europe' as the same whether it's ECHR or EU, so those who want that may be mollifed on the EU front)

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    There would be no European retaliation as the EU is not a part of the EHCR, and its attempts to join it last year were rebuffed by the EHCR on the basis the EU is not a country.
    Yes, I made the common conflation of EU with ECHR mistake there, mea culpa.

    I do not believe for a second there would not be retaliatory measures somehow from someone. Those who claim power over others don't like it when those others try to alter the dynamics. If we can just declare this without issue, why wouldn't a whole bunch of others have done it? We're the only selfish bastards in Europe? Not likely.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it (legal realities notwithstanding, people see standing up to 'more europe' as the same whether it's ECHR or EU, so those who want that may be mollifed on the EU front)

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    There would be no European retaliation as the EU is not a part of the EHCR, and its attempts to join it last year were rebuffed by the EHCR on the basis the EU is not a country.
    Yes, I made the common conflation of EU with ECHR mistake there, mea culpa.

    I do not believe for a second there would not be retaliatory measures somehow from someone. Those who claim power over others don't like it when those others try to alter the dynamics. If we can just declare this without issue, why wouldn't a whole bunch of others have done it? We're the only selfish bastards in Europe? Not likely.
    Who?

    Who would even care? I doubt it would merit a two paragraph page six story in Bildt.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Wanderer said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't see that in the renegotiation.
    Us making UK courts superior to the EHCR is nothing to do with the EU.
    No, but people associate them together - seeming to deal with one makes dealing with the other seem like it is also dealt with.

    So on reflection I was wrong, it is more of a dead cat strategy than I first thought.
    Imo a dead cat should be fully off-topic (as Fallon's brother-stabbing spiel was to the non-dom stuff). It shouldn't even be thematically connected.

    Perhaps today's dead cat was Lord Lucan's death certificate. Tomorrow's dead cat is Lord Lucan turning up alive after all.
    I wonder what was in the cause of death box.

    Old age?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it (legal realities notwithstanding, people see standing up to 'more europe' as the same whether it's ECHR or EU, so those who want that may be mollifed on the EU front)

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    Arrrgh why the hell did this bloody dead cat term come in.

    It's always been a stock market dead cat bounce.

    Grrrrrrrrrr!

    This raises my BP far more than it should.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hundred-One-Uses-Dead-Cat/dp/0413776905
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    Batwomen gave her driver £134k worth of "support" for his kids...

    LOL....and she was going to spin that this guy wasn't her driver, because when she gives speeches she has another driver....which costs another £40k a year....

    Her friend asking the questions are absolutely feeble...a real impartial documentary maker would have totally nailed her to the floor.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
    The EHCR is nothing to do with the EU. Opting out of the EHCR would do nothing to remedy any issues with the ECJ, it would merely undo the provisions of the 1998 Human Rights Act.
    The piece just refers to the European Court.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
    The EHCR is nothing to do with the EU. Opting out of the EHCR would do nothing to remedy any issues with the ECJ, it would merely undo the provisions of the 1998 Human Rights Act.
    Robert. Don't confuse people with facts. It spoils their arguments.

    The Outers are being hoist with their own petard. They've been deliberately mixing up the two for decades.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    RodCrosby said:

    Wanderer said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't see that in the renegotiation.
    Us making UK courts superior to the EHCR is nothing to do with the EU.
    No, but people associate them together - seeming to deal with one makes dealing with the other seem like it is also dealt with.

    So on reflection I was wrong, it is more of a dead cat strategy than I first thought.
    Imo a dead cat should be fully off-topic (as Fallon's brother-stabbing spiel was to the non-dom stuff). It shouldn't even be thematically connected.

    Perhaps today's dead cat was Lord Lucan's death certificate. Tomorrow's dead cat is Lord Lucan turning up alive after all.
    I wonder what was in the cause of death box.

    Old age?
    Presumably you can say cause unknown?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    Who is to blame....Batwomen.."the collective madness of the media and the government"..."no not me, I am not sorry, I am not sorry I bought the kids nice things"....

    Translation:
    "My organisation would collapse without constant funding from government...I didn't use government money as i was told to fix problems...therefore it's the government's fault they did not continue to give me money regardless, and how dare the media look into things"

    The woman's a lunatic. A perfect stereotype of a self important, incompetent leech on public money, clearly concerned with satisfying her own ego as a public dogooder and nothing else.

    Well, she's got me angry at her rather than disappointed in the EU deal -so she's the dead cat?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
    The EHCR is nothing to do with the EU. Opting out of the EHCR would do nothing to remedy any issues with the ECJ, it would merely undo the provisions of the 1998 Human Rights Act.
    The piece just refers to the European Court.
    Nevertheless, it refers to the ECHR.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    AndyJS said:

    Still too close to call with online polls. It'll be interesting to see what the next phone poll shows.

    They're showing a clear Remain lead once you add the DKs to Remain.

    Ignore the DKs at your peril.
    Phone polls show a majority of Tory voters choosing Remain, online polls show them choosing Leave, the same divide applies to pensioners.

    So here' s an experiment that I recommend, since PB is 80% Tory and over the age of 50, lets do a poll of PB users.
    If a majority comes in favour of Remain the phone polls are right, if it's Leave the online polls are right.
    Ok, take this poll then:-

    How will you vote in the EU referendum?

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    That poll is on 86% Remain at the moment.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
    The EHCR is nothing to do with the EU. Opting out of the EHCR would do nothing to remedy any issues with the ECJ, it would merely undo the provisions of the 1998 Human Rights Act.
    Robert. Don't confuse people with facts. It spoils their arguments.

    The Outers are being hoist with their own petard. They've been deliberately mixing up the two for decades.
    Most amusing.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    Batwomen....The kids deserve what rich kids have....well 5-6 of them do, living in a mansion with pool "to keep them safe".

    Oh god her friend making the documentary is now crying about how it has all gone wrong and made it easy for the media to attack her. Totally unable to be impartial.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it (legal realities notwithstanding, people see standing up to 'more europe' as the same whether it's ECHR or EU, so those who want that may be mollifed on the EU front)

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    There would be no European retaliation as the EU is not a part of the EHCR, and its attempts to join it last year were rebuffed by the EHCR on the basis the EU is not a country.
    Yes, I made the common conflation of EU with ECHR mistake there, mea culpa.

    I do not believe for a second there would not be retaliatory measures somehow from someone. Those who claim power over others don't like it when those others try to alter the dynamics. If we can just declare this without issue, why wouldn't a whole bunch of others have done it? We're the only selfish bastards in Europe? Not likely.
    Who?

    Who would even care? I doubt it would merit a two paragraph page six story in Bildt.
    Then why do people kick up such a fuss about us doing it? If there's no negative reaction from anyone in Europe about it, and we're not about to turn into a nation of human rights abusing barbarians if we do it (spying and torturing notwithstanding - though I would guess we outsource the latter), why wouldn't all parties have agreed on doing it years ago?

    Genuine question, I will freely admit to operating on emotion more than the full facts on such topics so am quite willing to be convinced from my position, and you make it sound as though there could be no negatives from anyone.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
    The EHCR is nothing to do with the EU. Opting out of the EHCR would do nothing to remedy any issues with the ECJ, it would merely undo the provisions of the 1998 Human Rights Act.
    Robert. Don't confuse people with facts. It spoils their arguments.

    Indeed.

    The Osborne fans have an aversion to actual economic data similar to a vampire's aversion to sunlight.
  • Options
    I'm sure I've read this POV on PB

    The Out campaign’s problem is that it can’t agree on what life after Brexit looks like

    Without a unified position on a post-EU future, Cameron's opponents will struggle to convince the public.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/02/out-campaign-s-problem-it-can-t-agree-what-life-after-brexit-looks
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639


    "hinting heavily"

    "attempt to ensure"

    Not very convincing.

    It was only due to the passing of the Human Rights Act in 1998 under Tony Blair's government that UK courts were made subserviant to the EHCR. If this act was repealed, and replaced by a British Bill of Rights, UK courts would no longer be subservient.

    Remember, the EHCR is nothing to do with the EU.
    Remember? Nope, they are not interested. Only interested in inventing dead cats.
  • Options
    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it (legal realities notwithstanding, people see standing up to 'more europe' as the same whether it's ECHR or EU, so those who want that may be mollifed on the EU front)

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    There would be no European retaliation as the EU is not a part of the EHCR, and its attempts to join it last year were rebuffed by the EHCR on the basis the EU is not a country.
    Yes, I made the common conflation of EU with ECHR mistake there, mea culpa.

    I do not believe for a second there would not be retaliatory measures somehow from someone. Those who claim power over others don't like it when those others try to alter the dynamics. If we can just declare this without issue, why wouldn't a whole bunch of others have done it? We're the only selfish bastards in Europe? Not likely.
    Anyone interested enough to know the difference between the ECJ and ECHR probably made their referendum decision a long time ago.

    It's all about mood music through all this stuff. The Inners will shout victory, the Outers will shout meaningless, the details don't matter but whose voice echoes loudest will count for something.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    So you are taking as much of this Trump @ 4.2 as you can?

    Selling Hillary at 2s for POTUS, buying Trump at 4s for the Republican nomination: both are amazing bets.
    Agree on selling Hillary, but not so sure about trump.

    Other than that, I'm currently treading water. Not really sure where the value lies.

    My book right now is pretty healthy (most of the profit came from heavily laying trump before iowa - as tipped on here)

    POTUS

    Hillary +- £0
    Rubio/Cruz/Sanders/Bush/Trump +£1580
    Jeb +1820
    Bloomberg +£42k
    Ryan +£100k
    Everyone else +~3k to 6k

    Cashout value ~£1200

    GOP

    Rubio/Trump/Cruz/Bush +£434
    Ryaan +£30k
    Everyone else +£10k

    Cashout value ~£500

    I also bought Rubio pre-iowa on SPIN @10 for £10 per pt.
  • Options

    Batwomen just let something really big out of the bag....has basically admitted to misappropriating money and is willing to break the law if "the law of the land" isn't right to helping kids.

    Who the hell ever thought this women should ever be personally in charge of £100's millions.

    Cameron
    Letwin
    Blair
    Brown

    Now I wonder which way that bunch will be voting on the EU.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
    The EHCR is nothing to do with the EU. Opting out of the EHCR would do nothing to remedy any issues with the ECJ, it would merely undo the provisions of the 1998 Human Rights Act.
    Robert. Don't confuse people with facts it spoils their arguments.

    Labour said they bought that in precisely to stop people heading up to Brussels though !
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    kle4 said:

    Then why do people kick up such a fuss about us doing it? If there's no negative reaction from anyone in Europe about it, and we're not about to turn into a nation of human rights abusing barbarians if we do it (spying and torturing notwithstanding - though I would guess we outsource the latter), why wouldn't all parties have agreed on doing it years ago?

    The answer is that until 1998, British courts were not subservient. Under the HRA (and under not pressure from anyone), we changed that.

    It was Conservative policy to change that in 2010, but it was never proposed for the coalition agreement (and the LibDems would have opposed it anyway). The Conservatives are now belatedly looking to repeal it. The issue is that we do need to replace it with something (the so called Bill of Rights, allegedly), which means it probably won'y happen immediately.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Speedy said:

    LondonBob said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    I take any opinion poll with a large pitch of salt, but it's the first entirely post Iowa national poll:

    http://morningconsult.com/2016/02/poll-sanders-and-rubio-gain-after-iowa/

    Trump 38 0
    Cruz 14 +1
    Rubio 12 +2
    Carson 9 -1
    Bush 5 -1
    Christie 3 -1
    Fiorina 3 +1
    Kasich 2 -1
    Santorum 1 0 (dropped out today)

    Hillary 51 0
    Sanders 35 +4

    That looks very similar to the NH numbers on the GOP side, so Marcomentum has seen him leap from a strong third place in Iowa all the way to... third place!!
    There is still the Saturday debate to come.
    Right now I have the suspicion that N.H. will be a pretty close 3 way race despite what polls say at the moment, S.Carolina will be the key state for the top 3.

    Nothing is inscribed in stone, not with a debate 4 days before voting and a severe snowstorm on voting day.
    So you think the fix is in? Problem is Trump is too far ahead in NH, but I suppose a suspiciously strong second place for Rubio and surprise sub 30s from Trump would do it.

    Seriously I fail to see a single state Rubio can win, that is his problem, well behind Trump even in Florida. Trump will take the South, not Cruz, and Greater New England including the Rustbelt Trump will crush it with all the delegates that that region holds.

    Rubio just isn't popular as his polling shows, just so vulnerable on immigration, intelligence and foreign policy.
    But he has the media, an unpopular person can still win the nomination with overwhelming media support (see Romney).
    In a 3 way race everything is possible, just look at the pileup on Cruz after his Iowa victory.

    The first primaries are all that matter and in those it's a game of musical chairs of who surges last, Rubio won that one in Iowa, let's see who will surge last in N.H and S.Carolina.

    Of course it's entirely possible that Rubio, having such a poor start, will surge last only to end up 3rd again.
    Romney won New Hampshire and was ahead in national polls at this stage, Rubio is not a natural fit for South Carolina like Gingrich
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    Pong said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    So you are taking as much of this Trump @ 4.2 as you can?

    Selling Hillary at 2s for POTUS, buying Trump at 4s for the Republican nomination: both are amazing bets.
    Agree on selling Hillary, but not so sure about trump.

    Other than that, I'm currently treading water. Not really sure where the value lies.

    My book right now is pretty healthy (most of the profit came from heavily laying trump before iowa - as tipped on here)

    POTUS

    Hillary +- £0
    Rubio/Cruz/Sanders/Bush/Trump +£1580
    Jeb +1820
    Bloomberg +£42k
    Ryan +£100k
    Everyone else +~3k to 6k

    Cashout value ~£1200

    GOP

    Rubio/Trump/Cruz/Bush +£434
    Ryaan +£30k
    Everyone else +£10k

    Cashout value ~£500

    I also bought Rubio pre-iowa on SPIN @10 for £10 per pt.
    Buy Rubio for POTUS (as he'd wipe the floor with Hillary and pretty much every likely Democratic candidate). Sell Hillary for POTUS. Buy Trump for the nomination.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    AndyJS said:

    Still too close to call with online polls. It'll be interesting to see what the next phone poll shows.

    They're showing a clear Remain lead once you add the DKs to Remain.

    Ignore the DKs at your peril.
    Phone polls show a majority of Tory voters choosing Remain, online polls show them choosing Leave, the same divide applies to pensioners.

    So here' s an experiment that I recommend, since PB is 80% Tory and over the age of 50, lets do a poll of PB users.
    If a majority comes in favour of Remain the phone polls are right, if it's Leave the online polls are right.
    Ok, take this poll then:-

    How will you vote in the EU referendum?

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    That poll is on 86% Remain at the moment.
    It's a mean trick. I can't get to the poll as it comes up as an unsafe site. :-(
  • Options
    Quite a few papers are reporting Boris is backing Remain.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Here's the dead cat I predicted would arrive - it has arrived (and will mean UK Supreme Court becomes constitutional court with new Bill of Rights)

    "And by hinting heavily today the government is preparing to publish a new law that would attempt to ensure that UK law could not be overturned by the European Court, the prime minister may bring some more waverers, potentially Boris Johnson, on board."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35488639

    I don't know that that qualifies as a dead cat. A dead cat I would think is a tangential at best subject, usually controversial, designed purely to distract from the other, more damaging issue. Ensuring UK law could not be overturned by the European Court is directly related to making the crap deal, aka the status quo, more appealing, it enhances the deal rather than distracts from it.

    It would be more appealing if they could do that - what would be the european retaliation? Would it even work? I note the phrase used is 'attempt to ensure' rather than just 'ensure'.
    That's the point. Cameron can introduce any statute he so desires, but British parliamentary statute has already been found to be inferior to EU law. I believe this was tested in court some years ago by Steve Thorburn (if I remember rightly), the 'metric martyr' who (unsuccessfully) fought for his right to sell a pound of bananas using the British Weights and Measures Act of 1987 (or something).
    The EHCR is nothing to do with the EU. Opting out of the EHCR would do nothing to remedy any issues with the ECJ, it would merely undo the provisions of the 1998 Human Rights Act.
    The piece just refers to the European Court.
    Nevertheless, it refers to the ECHR.
    That may be so, but I still don't see how there's any basis within the story that means what I wrote wasn't relevant.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    AndyJS said:

    Still too close to call with online polls. It'll be interesting to see what the next phone poll shows.

    They're showing a clear Remain lead once you add the DKs to Remain.

    Ignore the DKs at your peril.
    Phone polls show a majority of Tory voters choosing Remain, online polls show them choosing Leave, the same divide applies to pensioners.

    So here' s an experiment that I recommend, since PB is 80% Tory and over the age of 50, lets do a poll of PB users.
    If a majority comes in favour of Remain the phone polls are right, if it's Leave the online polls are right.
    For phone polls you need to add DKs to Leave.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    AndyJS said:

    Still too close to call with online polls. It'll be interesting to see what the next phone poll shows.

    They're showing a clear Remain lead once you add the DKs to Remain.

    Ignore the DKs at your peril.
    Phone polls show a majority of Tory voters choosing Remain, online polls show them choosing Leave, the same divide applies to pensioners.

    So here' s an experiment that I recommend, since PB is 80% Tory and over the age of 50, lets do a poll of PB users.
    If a majority comes in favour of Remain the phone polls are right, if it's Leave the online polls are right.
    Ok, take this poll then:-

    How will you vote in the EU referendum?

    https://www.nojam.com/post/550

    That poll is on 86% Remain at the moment.
    It's a mean trick. I can't get to the poll as it comes up as an unsafe site. :-(

    What does it say? It isn't unsafe !

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    @Pong You've played Trump very well !
  • Options
    Pong said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    So you are taking as much of this Trump @ 4.2 as you can?

    Selling Hillary at 2s for POTUS, buying Trump at 4s for the Republican nomination: both are amazing bets.
    Agree on selling Hillary, but not so sure about trump.

    Other than that, I'm currently treading water. Not really sure where the value lies.

    My book right now is pretty healthy (most of the profit came from heavily laying trump before iowa - as tipped on here)

    POTUS

    Hillary +- £0
    Rubio/Cruz/Sanders/Bush/Trump +£1580
    Jeb +1820
    Bloomberg +£42k
    Ryan +£100k
    Everyone else +~3k to 6k

    Cashout value ~£1200

    GOP

    Rubio/Trump/Cruz/Bush +£434
    Ryaan +£30k
    Everyone else +£10k

    Cashout value ~£500

    I also bought Rubio pre-iowa on SPIN @10 for £10 per pt.
    Impressive work.

    Well done.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Then why do people kick up such a fuss about us doing it?

    The people who make a fuss are the parasitic lawyers who benefit so much from the current arrangement
  • Options
    The Times is reporting Gove is torn between Cameron and Brexit
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    The Times is reporting Gove is torn between Cameron and Brexit

    Amazing, a day of stupendously negative press and all those eurosceptic Remainers suddenly remember their principles.
  • Options
    Pong said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    So you are taking as much of this Trump @ 4.2 as you can?

    Selling Hillary at 2s for POTUS, buying Trump at 4s for the Republican nomination: both are amazing bets.
    Agree on selling Hillary, but not so sure about trump.

    Other than that, I'm currently treading water. Not really sure where the value lies.

    My book right now is pretty healthy (most of the profit came from heavily laying trump before iowa - as tipped on here)

    POTUS

    Hillary +- £0
    Rubio/Cruz/Sanders/Bush/Trump +£1580
    Jeb +1820
    Bloomberg +£42k
    Ryan +£100k
    Everyone else +~3k to 6k

    Cashout value ~£1200

    GOP

    Rubio/Trump/Cruz/Bush +£434
    Ryaan +£30k
    Everyone else +£10k

    Cashout value ~£500

    I also bought Rubio pre-iowa on SPIN @10 for £10 per pt.
    So you're hoping for a Bloomberg win then?!

    (Damn good book, btw)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,304

    The Times is reporting Gove is torn between Cameron and Brexit

    Cue jokes about how many teachers may have wished him to be torn in a more literal sense...
This discussion has been closed.