The Italian system seems utterly stupid, and almost designed to encourage populism.
From a Prime Minister drawn from obscurity, and who nobody voted for, to a President who wants to veto Cabinet appointees because they espouse policies the public voted for...
The Italian system seems utterly stupid, and almost designed to encourage populism.
From a Prime Minister drawn from obscurity, and who nobody voted for, to a President who wants to veto Cabinet appointees because they espouse policies the public voted for...
The idea I think is to discourage the arrogation of power to any one man. When the republic was founded in the 1940s, there was a recent, vivid example of how that could go wrong...and such things were the Duce.
On the specific issue, Esther McVey may say that when her partner takes her to an event she doesn't ask where he got the tickets. And he declared them. There may be more here - much more. If she didn't have influential friends her losing a Commons seat would have been much more of a setback and she wouldn't have been parachuted into a safe one at that stage in her career.
Well indeed if he's declared 2 then the tickets have been declared. Unless 3+ people went what is there for her to declare?
Maybe the guidance on who declares what in a couple needs to be clarified but this seems much ado about nothing.
It is interesting that the rules probably don't envisage such an issue.
The Italian system seems utterly stupid, and almost designed to encourage populism.
From a Prime Minister drawn from obscurity, and who nobody voted for, to a President who wants to veto Cabinet appointees because they espouse policies the public voted for...
Indeed, the President is from the Democratic Party of defeated former PM Matteo Renzi and was elected by the Italian Parliament in 2015 when Renzi's Party had a majority. It seems Italian Politics is now a classic case of a different party holding the Presidency to the Parliament, as occasionally happened in France and often happens in the USA.
Of course if you have a constitutional monarchy you tend not to have that problem for good or ill.
Liverpool FC are a Catholic Club whilst Everton are a protestant club.
Really? I thought historically it was the other way round, though pretty much meaningless now.
You are right but fortunately it isn't a Rangers/Celtic type thing
Liverpool's founder was an Orangeman and the first Irish Catholic to play for Liverpool happened in the 1970s, Liverpool fans were from all traditions.
Everton were perceived to be the Catholic club when they had a plethora of Irish (Catholic) players in the 50s and 60s.
Both were just one of those quirks.
In fact almost all of Everton's founders were protestant.
But can we stop talking about football, I'm still a little raw and sensitive.
Only comments saying Sergio Ramos is a c*nt are going to be permissible for the next few days.
He was warned by a judge about jeopardising trials when he was convicted and sentenced for previous offences. Putting him in prison is completely right if he’s in contempt of court, for some reason judges take a dim view of those who ignore direct instructions.
Note that it wasn’t that he was filming, it’s that he was broadcasting the film that’s the offence - because there were reporting restrictions on the trial taking place.
I thought the offence that constituted a contempt of court and a breach of the conditions of his suspended sentence was acting in a way likely to cause a breach of the peace, not breaking reporting restrictions. This xenophobic headbanger has sought to incite breaches of the peace during much of his career in my humble opinion.
Both Gerard Batten of UKIP and Milo Yiannopoulos have supported Robinson before. Got to wonder what is in the pipeline. It would certainly be useful for the Tories if some of Labour's current voteshare shifted to a party on the far right and stayed there. Islamophobia is the obvious ideology for it.
From the footage it seems Robinson was surprised at his arrest and had no solicitor lined up beforehand.
As for the Leeds trial itself, trials with so many defendants can prove difficult to prosecute successfully. I won't be surprised if it collapses.
He was warned by a judge about jeopardising trials when he was convicted and sentenced for previous offences. Putting him in prison is completely right if he’s in contempt of court, for some reason judges take a dim view of those who ignore direct instructions.
Note that it wasn’t that he was filming, it’s that he was broadcasting the film that’s the offence - because there were reporting restrictions on the trial taking place.
I thought the offence that constituted a contempt of court and a breach of the conditions of his suspended sentence was acting in a way likely to cause a breach of the peace, not breaking reporting restrictions. This xenophobic headbanger has sought to incite breaches of the peace during much of his career in my humble opinion.
Both Gerard Batten of UKIP and Milo Yiannopoulos have supported Robinson before. Got to wonder what is in the pipeline. It would certainly be useful for the Tories if some of Labour's current voteshare shifted to a party on the far right and stayed there. Islamophobia is the obvious ideology for it.
From the footage it seems Robinson was surprised at his arrest and had no solicitor lined up beforehand.
As for the Leeds trial itself, trials with so many defendants can prove difficult to prosecute successfully. I won't be surprised if it collapses.
I am astonished he wasn't censured by the studio commentators.
Liverpool FC are a Catholic Club whilst Everton are a protestant club.
Really? I thought historically it was the other way round, though pretty much meaningless now.
You are right but fortunately it isn't a Rangers/Celtic type thing
Liverpool's founder was an Orangeman and the first Irish Catholic to play for Liverpool happened in the 1970s, Liverpool fans were from all traditions.
Everton were perceived to be the Catholic club when they had a plethora of Irish (Catholic) players in the 50s and 60s.
Both were just one of those quirks.
In fact almost all of Everton's founders were protestant.
But can we stop talking about football, I'm still a little raw and sensitive.
Only comments saying Sergio Ramos is a c*nt are going to be permissible for the next few days.
I think a rare PB consensus has been reached on Ramos's c*ntitude.
Of course if you have a constitutional monarchy you tend not to have that problem for good or ill.
The Italian monarchy was abolished precisely because the King was seen as having been far too close to and supine in the face of Mussolini.
At that time Mussolini was effectively Head of State in his role of 'Duce' and President in all but name, the King was just a puppet not a proper constitutional monarch.
Of course if you have a constitutional monarchy you tend not to have that problem for good or ill.
The Italian monarchy was abolished precisely because the King was seen as having been far too close to and supine in the face of Mussolini.
At that time Mussolini was effectively Head of State in his role of 'Duce' and President in all but name, the King was just a puppet not a proper constitutional monarch.
Yes, and had lost the power to sack Mussolini.
However, he was also the man who appointed him in the first place (bullied into it by his mother, allegedly) which had fatally damaged his credibility even after he finally acted in 1943.
Liverpool FC are a Catholic Club whilst Everton are a protestant club.
Really? I thought historically it was the other way round, though pretty much meaningless now.
You are right but fortunately it isn't a Rangers/Celtic type thing
Liverpool's founder was an Orangeman and the first Irish Catholic to play for Liverpool happened in the 1970s, Liverpool fans were from all traditions.
Everton were perceived to be the Catholic club when they had a plethora of Irish (Catholic) players in the 50s and 60s.
Both were just one of those quirks.
In fact almost all of Everton's founders were protestant.
But can we stop talking about football, I'm still a little raw and sensitive.
Only comments saying Sergio Ramos is a c*nt are going to be permissible for the next few days.
I think a rare PB consensus has been reached on Ramos's c*ntitude.
Yep. He must be most hated man in football right now.
One of their reporters has just muddled up the law on abortion on the mainland with the law in Northern Ireland.
What did they say?
My understanding is that abortion is a criminal offence under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act, while the 1967 Abortion Act is technically an Amendment applying to England and Wales.
A new yellow stuff is emerging in cricket. It cannot really be stopped.
For balance, it should be pointed out the reporter has a long track record of dubious claims, the interviews in question were conducted by a known member of the Indian mafia and all cricketers involved either (a) say the whole lot is made up or (b) were told they were auditioning to take part in a mockumentary on the subject.
So while the story isn't impossible it must be considered highly suspect at this stage.
One of their reporters has just muddled up the law on abortion on the mainland with the law in Northern Ireland.
What did they say?
My understanding is that abortion is a criminal offence under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act, while the 1967 Abortion Act is technically an Amendment applying to England and Wales.
They said that abortion in Northern Ireland is available when the mother's life is at risk, 'unlike in the rest of the UK.'
The free tommy Robinson petition is now up to 255,000. The target of 300,000 will be exceeded tonight easily. This appears to be a monumental self inflicted mess by the Government. This is also a story that has the potential to get out of hand. TM has no option but to quickly find a way to get him out of prison or risk giving UKIP a reason to exist again.
Are you seriously suggesting decisions of the court should be overruled by politicians?
And - on the basis of attempting to gain/maintain an electoral advantage!
It seems that the arrest was political from the start.
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
It's going to be particularly toxic as the parties will spin it as their nominee for finance minister being rejected purely because he was anti-Euro in principle, even though they compromised on things like a parallel currency and debt restructuring. (Arguably his age, lack of experience and track record of academic incompetence probably told against him more, but it's going to be easy to hide that.)
If there is another election, they will surely give the Democrats a brutal pounding.
Liverpool FC are a Catholic Club whilst Everton are a protestant club.
Really? I thought historically it was the other way round, though pretty much meaningless now.
You are right but fortunately it isn't a Rangers/Celtic type thing
Liverpool's founder was an Orangeman and the first Irish Catholic to play for Liverpool happened in the 1970s, Liverpool fans were from all traditions.
Everton were perceived to be the Catholic club when they had a plethora of Irish (Catholic) players in the 50s and 60s.
Both were just one of those quirks.
In fact almost all of Everton's founders were protestant.
But can we stop talking about football, I'm still a little raw and sensitive.
Only comments saying Sergio Ramos is a c*nt are going to be permissible for the next few days.
As a Liverpool and an England football fan, you are now well ahead of the curve in your preparations for disappointment.
One of their reporters has just muddled up the law on abortion on the mainland with the law in Northern Ireland.
What did they say?
My understanding is that abortion is a criminal offence under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act, while the 1967 Abortion Act is technically an Amendment applying to England and Wales.
They said that abortion in Northern Ireland is available when the mother's life is at risk, 'unlike in the rest of the UK.'
I think those are the terms in NI, and the terms are unlike that in the rUK.
The free tommy Robinson petition is now up to 255,000. The target of 300,000 will be exceeded tonight easily. This appears to be a monumental self inflicted mess by the Government. This is also a story that has the potential to get out of hand. TM has no option but to quickly find a way to get him out of prison or risk giving UKIP a reason to exist again.
Are you seriously suggesting decisions of the court should be overruled by politicians?
And - on the basis of attempting to gain/maintain an electoral advantage!
It seems that the arrest was political from the start.
If he was committing an offence (and a potentially very serious one) then the police were entirely right to arrest him. Even if you think he should not be prosecuted - which is not a police decision - the police should always respond appropriately to serious criminal acts.
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
It's going to be particularly toxic as the parties will spin it as their nominee for finance minister being rejected purely because he was anti-Euro in principle, even though they compromised on things like a parallel currency and debt restructuring. (Arguably his age, lack of experience and track record of academic incompetence probably told against him more, but it's going to be easy to hide that.)
If there is another election, they will surely give the Democrats a brutal pounding.
The latest Italian polls have Salvini's Lega Nord on about 21-25%, up on the 17% they got last time, Five Star on 30-32%, unchanged or fractionally down on the 32% they got last, Forza Italia are on 11-13%, down a bit on the 14% they got last time and the Democrats (PD) are on 16-18%, so unchanged or down on the 18% they got last time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election
So the biggest winners from a new election would most likely be Lega Nord and probably even more so after today.
One of their reporters has just muddled up the law on abortion on the mainland with the law in Northern Ireland.
What did they say?
My understanding is that abortion is a criminal offence under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act, while the 1967 Abortion Act is technically an Amendment applying to England and Wales.
They said that abortion in Northern Ireland is available when the mother's life is at risk, 'unlike in the rest of the UK.'
I think those are the terms in NI, and the terms are unlike that in the rUK.
Technically it is available if there is a grave and immediate risk to the life of the mother.
In the rest of the UK it is available if the risk to the mother of the pregnancy continuing is greater than the risk of abortion, although there are I believe (you would of course know more than me about this) there are also exemptions for rape, incest and severe foetal abnormality.
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
Well that's me FUCKED on the Italian next PM market. Thought Conte was a shoo in !
So far as Italy goes, surely this is toxic to the pro-establishment parties and should give M5S/Liga even more support ?
Possibly!
The President stated that Italy leaving the Euro had to be a central part of the campaign, to be permitted, not slipped through via the back door.
If elections are re-run, it will be a referendum on leaving the Euro in effect. That may well happen, but also may shift some votes to pro Euro parties.
Apparently 5SM are talking of impeaching the President. Could get a bit messy.
Translated from Italian by Microsoft No more servants than anyone, Italy is not a colony, we are not slaves of Germans or French, of the spread or the finance. At this point, with honesty, consistency and courage ever, the word must come back to you! #Primagliitaliani! I'm not quitting.
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
Well that's me FUCKED on the Italian next PM market. Thought Conte was a shoo in !
So far as Italy goes, surely this is toxic to the pro-establishment parties and should give M5S/Liga even more support ?
Possibly!
The President stated that Italy leaving the Euro had to be a central part of the campaign, to be permitted, not slipped through via the back door.
If elections are re-run, it will be a referendum on leaving the Euro in effect. That may well happen, but also may shift some votes to pro Euro parties.
Apparently 5SM are talking of impeaching the President. Could get a bit messy.
Euro support is only about 55% in Italy, so it is entirely possible that Italy will be leaving shortly
However, Five Star is by no means doctrinally anti Euro, and recently removed a lot of the anti euro rhetoric from their policy platform.
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
It's going to be particularly toxic as the parties will spin it as their nominee for finance minister being rejected purely because he was anti-Euro in principle, even though they compromised on things like a parallel currency and debt restructuring. (Arguably his age, lack of experience and track record of academic incompetence probably told against him more, but it's going to be easy to hide that.)
If there is another election, they will surely give the Democrats a brutal pounding.
The latest Italian polls have Salvini's Lega Nord on about 21-25%, up on the 17% they got last time, Five Star on 30-32%, unchanged or fractionally down on the 32% they got last, Forza Italia are on 11-13%, down a bit on the 14% they got last time and the Democrats (PD) are on 16-18%, so unchanged or down on the 18% they got last time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election
So the biggest winners from a new election would most likely be Lega Nord and probably even more so after today.
Of course, one must assume that the electoral pact between Lega Nord and Forza will be gone, given the way the latter was dumped post election.
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
Well that's me FUCKED on the Italian next PM market. Thought Conte was a shoo in !
So far as Italy goes, surely this is toxic to the pro-establishment parties and should give M5S/Liga even more support ?
Possibly!
The President stated that Italy leaving the Euro had to be a central part of the campaign, to be permitted, not slipped through via the back door.
If elections are re-run, it will be a referendum on leaving the Euro in effect. That may well happen, but also may shift some votes to pro Euro parties.
Apparently 5SM are talking of impeaching the President. Could get a bit messy.
Euro support is only about 55% in Italy, so it is entirely possible that Italy will be leaving shortly
However, Five Star is by no means doctrinally anti Euro, and recently removed a lot of the anti euro rhetoric from their policy platform.
If Brexit is followed by Italy voting to leave the Euro (of course that is still a big if) the EU will face a crisis of enormous proportions, rejected by 2 of its 4 biggest economies in the space of little more than 2 years.
I suggest Juncker and Barnier try being a little less smug and haughty and try and listen a bit more
The free tommy Robinson petition is now up to 255,000. The target of 300,000 will be exceeded tonight easily. This appears to be a monumental self inflicted mess by the Government. This is also a story that has the potential to get out of hand. TM has no option but to quickly find a way to get him out of prison or risk giving UKIP a reason to exist again.
Are you seriously suggesting decisions of the court should be overruled by politicians?
And - on the basis of attempting to gain/maintain an electoral advantage!
It seems that the arrest was political from the start.
If he was committing an offence (and a potentially very serious one) then the police were entirely right to arrest him. Even if you think he should not be prosecuted - which is not a police decision - the police should always respond appropriately to serious criminal acts.
So the serious offence is videoing himself in front of a court house. For this he is arrested and sent to prison without trial for 13 months. I am not a supporter of EDL but I have spent time in totalitarian countries such as China and I don't really see the difference between the way they act and here.
To give some perspective his petition has now 275,000 in 24 hours. The petition for a Grenfell inquiry got 160,000, Windrush petition 180,000. This petition has already hit the top 10 of all petitions and may well make the top 5.
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
It's going to be particularly toxic as the parties will spin it as their nominee for finance minister being rejected purely because he was anti-Euro in principle, even though they compromised on things like a parallel currency and debt restructuring. (Arguably his age, lack of experience and track record of academic incompetence probably told against him more, but it's going to be easy to hide that.)
If there is another election, they will surely give the Democrats a brutal pounding.
The latest Italian polls have Salvini's Lega Nord on about 21-25%, up on the 17% they got last time, Five Star on 30-32%, unchanged or fractionally down on the 32% they got last, Forza Italia are on 11-13%, down a bit on the 14% they got last time and the Democrats (PD) are on 16-18%, so unchanged or down on the 18% they got last time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election
So the biggest winners from a new election would most likely be Lega Nord and probably even more so after today.
Of course, one must assume that the electoral pact between Lega Nord and Forza will be gone, given the way the latter was dumped post election.
Yes, it looks like some of the Forza Italia vote is already moving to Lega Nord
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
It's going to be particularly toxic as the parties will spin it as their nominee for finance minister being rejected purely because he was anti-Euro in principle, even though they compromised on things like a parallel currency and debt restructuring. (Arguably his age, lack of experience and track record of academic incompetence probably told against him more, but it's going to be easy to hide that.)
If there is another election, they will surely give the Democrats a brutal pounding.
The latest Italian polls have Salvini's Lega Nord on about 21-25%, up on the 17% they got last time, Five Star on 30-32%, unchanged or fractionally down on the 32% they got last, Forza Italia are on 11-13%, down a bit on the 14% they got last time and the Democrats (PD) are on 16-18%, so unchanged or down on the 18% they got last time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election
So the biggest winners from a new election would most likely be Lega Nord and probably even more so after today.
Berlusconi running down the clock on his public office ban?
If he was committing an offence (and a potentially very serious one) then the police were entirely right to arrest him. Even if you think he should not be prosecuted - which is not a police decision - the police should always respond appropriately to serious criminal acts.
So the serious offence is videoing himself in front of a court house. For this he is arrested and sent to prison without trial for 13 months. I am not a supporter of EDL but I have spent time in totalitarian countries such as China and I don't really see the difference between the way they act and here.
To give some perspective his petition has now 275,000 in 24 hours. The petition for a Grenfell inquiry got 160,000, Windrush petition 180,000. This petition has already hit the top 10 of all petitions and may well make the top 5.
We do not, yet, know for sure what he was or was not doing and may not for some time. The word of his supporters is about as reliable as that of Tony Blair, but they are currently the only ones who have commented.
If however he was filming a report on an ongoing trial in defiance of court orders and police instructions while under a suspended sentence for a previous offence he absolutely deserves what he's getting. If he resisted arrest or shouted abuse at the police he deserves the rest of what he'll get too.
This would appear to be the equivalent (albeit orders of magnitude more serious) of a child not doing their homework three weeks running then whining to their parents when they get punished.
If, on the other hand, there is something politically motivated (which is unlikely but not impossible) that will be shown later and he may be offered compensation. However, that won't affect his current prison sentence reached after the very legal process he seems to be trying to deny to others - unless of course he's a sleeper agent trying to get the trials thrown out which given the sheer inanity of his actions seems possible.
Do you see how many permutations there are and how the petition is actually not a smart way to proceed at this time?
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
It's going to be particularly toxic as the parties will spin it as their nominee for finance minister being rejected purely because he was anti-Euro in principle, even though they compromised on things like a parallel currency and debt restructuring. (Arguably his age, lack of experience and track record of academic incompetence probably told against him more, but it's going to be easy to hide that.)
If there is another election, they will surely give the Democrats a brutal pounding.
The latest Italian polls have Salvini's Lega Nord on about 21-25%, up on the 17% they got last time, Five Star on 30-32%, unchanged or fractionally down on the 32% they got last, Forza Italia are on 11-13%, down a bit on the 14% they got last time and the Democrats (PD) are on 16-18%, so unchanged or down on the 18% they got last time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election
So the biggest winners from a new election would most likely be Lega Nord and probably even more so after today.
Berlusconi running down the clock on his public office ban?
He's already done it.
If talks fail and a fresh election is called, Mr Berlusconi could now stand.
The free tommy Robinson petition is now up to 255,000. The target of 300,000 will be exceeded tonight easily. This appears to be a monumental self inflicted mess by the Government. This is also a story that has the potential to get out of hand. TM has no option but to quickly find a way to get him out of prison or risk giving UKIP a reason to exist again.
Are you seriously suggesting decisions of the court should be overruled by politicians?
And - on the basis of attempting to gain/maintain an electoral advantage!
It seems that the arrest was political from the start.
If he was committing an offence (and a potentially very serious one) then the police were entirely right to arrest him. Even if you think he should not be prosecuted - which is not a police decision - the police should always respond appropriately to serious criminal acts.
So the serious offence is videoing himself in front of a court house. For this he is arrested and sent to prison without trial for 13 months. I am not a supporter of EDL but I have spent time in totalitarian countries such as China and I don't really see the difference between the way they act and here.
To give some perspective his petition has now 275,000 in 24 hours. The petition for a Grenfell inquiry got 160,000, Windrush petition 180,000. This petition has already hit the top 10 of all petitions and may well make the top 5.
Just like any other person, if you have already been convicted of an offence and have conditions attached which you subsequently breach you go to jail.
Actions which could lead to the collapse of trials like Robison was doing are rightly considered to be extremely serious. Unless he is terminally dumb - and I do understand this is a strong possibility in Robinson's case - he had to know his actions could lead to the collapse of the trial. Maybe that was exactly what he wanted.
The numbers of people signing the petition just show how many people are ignorant of the law. I am sure that if the trial had collapsed because of Robinson's actions those same people would have been screaming about how the legal system was letting down the victims.
The Italian system seems utterly stupid, and almost designed to encourage populism.
From a Prime Minister drawn from obscurity, and who nobody voted for, to a President who wants to veto Cabinet appointees because they espouse policies the public voted for...
Lamposts and short ropes beckon if this continues. The complete lack of respect the EUphiles have to democracy is surprising, even to me, and I'm extremely sceptical of the EU.
If he was committing an offence (and a potentially very serious one) then the police were entirely right to arrest him. Even if you think he should not be prosecuted - which is not a police decision - the police should always respond appropriately to serious criminal acts.
So the serious offence is videoing himself in front of a court house. For this he is arrested and sent to prison without trial for 13 months. I am not a supporter of EDL but I have spent time in totalitarian countries such as China and I don't really see the difference between the way they act and here.
To give some perspective his petition has now 275,000 in 24 hours. The petition for a Grenfell inquiry got 160,000, Windrush petition 180,000. This petition has already hit the top 10 of all petitions and may well make the top 5.
We do not, yet, know for sure what he was or was not doing and may not for some time. The word of his supporters is about as reliable as that of Tony Blair, but they are currently the only ones who have commented.
If however he was filming a report on an ongoing trial in defiance of court orders and police instructions while under a suspended sentence for a previous offence he absolutely deserves what he's getting. If he resisted arrest or shouted abuse at the police he deserves the rest of what he'll get too.
This would appear to be the equivalent (albeit orders of magnitude more serious) of a child not doing their homework three weeks running then whining to their parents when they get punished.
If, on the other hand, there is something politically motivated (which is unlikely but not impossible) that will be shown later and he may be offered compensation. However, that won't affect his current prison sentence reached after the very legal process he seems to be trying to deny to others - unless of course he's a sleeper agent trying to get the trials thrown out which given the sheer inanity of his actions seems possible.
Do you see how many permutations there are and how the petition is actually not a smart way to proceed at this time?
Mr ydoethur,have you watched the video of his arrest ?
What makes me ask is this sentence from you - If he resisted arrest or shouted abuse at the police he deserves the rest of what he'll get too.
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
It's going to be particularly toxic as the parties will spin it as their nominee for finance minister being rejected purely because he was anti-Euro in principle, even though they compromised on things like a parallel currency and debt restructuring. (Arguably his age, lack of experience and track record of academic incompetence probably told against him more, but it's going to be easy to hide that.)
If there is another election, they will surely give the Democrats a brutal pounding.
The latest Italian polls have Salvini's Lega Nord on about 21-25%, up on the 17% they got last time, Five Star on 30-32%, unchanged or fractionally down on the 32% they got last, Forza Italia are on 11-13%, down a bit on the 14% they got last time and the Democrats (PD) are on 16-18%, so unchanged or down on the 18% they got last time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election
So the biggest winners from a new election would most likely be Lega Nord and probably even more so after today.
Of course, one must assume that the electoral pact between Lega Nord and Forza will be gone, given the way the latter was dumped post election.
Indeed, Lega don't need FI, they have already been legitimised.
If he was committing an offence (and a potentially very serious one) then the police were entirely right to arrest him. Even if you think he should not be prosecuted - which is not a police decision - the police should always respond appropriately to serious criminal acts.
So the serious offence is videoing himself in front of a court house. For this he is arrested and sent to prison without trial for 13 months. I am not a supporter of EDL but I have spent time in totalitarian countries such as China and I don't really see the difference between the way they act and here.
To give some perspective his petition has now 275,000 in 24 hours. The petition for a Grenfell inquiry got 160,000, Windrush petition 180,000. This petition has already hit the top 10 of all petitions and may well make the top 5.
We do not, yet, know for sure what he was or was not doing and may not for some time. The word of his supporters is about as reliable as that of Tony Blair, but they are currently the only ones who have commented.
If however he was filming a report on an ongoing trial in defiance of court orders and police instructions while under a suspended sentence for a previous offence he absolutely deserves what he's getting. If he resisted arrest or shouted abuse at the police he deserves the rest of what he'll get too.
This would appear to be the equivalent (albeit orders of magnitude more serious) of a child not doing their homework three weeks running then whining to their parents when they get punished.
If, on the other hand, there is something politically motivated (which is unlikely but not impossible) that will be shown later and he may be offered compensation. However, that won't affect his current prison sentence reached after the very legal process he seems to be trying to deny to others - unless of course he's a sleeper agent trying to get the trials thrown out which given the sheer inanity of his actions seems possible.
Do you see how many permutations there are and how the petition is actually not a smart way to proceed at this time?
Mr ydoethur,have you watched the video of his arrest ?
What makes me ask is this sentence from you - If he resisted arrest or shouted abuse at the police he deserves the rest of what he'll get too.
The point is we have what he says is the video of his arrest.
How can I put this - I can't help but wonder whether the video is a complete record of events.
I say that not just because of the curious nature of the pretext for his arrest, but because of his long track of record of shall we say, aggressive behaviour.
From a man who knows a lot more than the defenders of Tommy Robinson.
Would make far more sense if he is trying to sabotage the trial for the given reason. As I noted above, his actions are otherwise pretty much batshit crazy.
They say that the Monaco Grand Prix is glamorous but in reality it's just as full of fat people with tattoos as you see at most English football matches. In fact it's Monaco at its least glamorous despite many of the people having paid 1200 euros for their seats.
I don't understand the appeal of Monaco. It's a concrete jungle.
It’s expensive. For some people that’s enough.
Contacts. If you're the sort of pond scum person who likes to be surrounded by the great and the good, who likes to go to the same parties as them and to grease palms, it's the perfect place to go. At least if you can afford it...
The "great and the good" don't go anywhere near Monaco
As Somerset Maughan noted, it's "a sunny place for shady people"
I forget you speak for all the 'great and the good'.
I don’t. But I know where to find them
(Umbria or in the mountains between Nice and St Paul de Vence)
I fear your definition of 'great and good' is very different from mine ...
On topic, it was interesting that only McVey was prepared to come out and publicly defend the bookmakers keeping the FOBT limit at £100.
Otherwise, Hancock's announcement seemed to get very wide support which either makes it very right or very wrong. ITV Racing did a decent job of analysing the announcement with a wide range of speakers of whom I thought trainer John Gosden was the most impressive.
Horse racing's concern is to see how the shortfall from FOBT income will be made up or indeed if it will. The thought that bookmakers may no longer be able to make easy profits on risk-free betting (for them) forgets the existence of virtual racing and racing beamed in from foreign locations (the latest being South Korea).
When I worked in a shop more than 30 years ago, it was a real "contest" between bookies and punters and the Saturday morning dog cards at Hackney and Crayford always seemed to be about the knowledgeable punters taking the bookies' cash because the punters knew more about the dog form than the off-course firms.
The FOBT announcement marks a step back toward betting with risk and we'll see if the firms now, which are a world away from the organisations created by William Hill, Joe Coral and Cyril Stein, are prepared to take that risk.
The bookies are also playing their own "Project Fear" with nightmarish scenarios of offices closed and jobs lost. Maybe but the High Street model of betting is, with other retailing, falling on the sword of the Internet. People will gamble - in East Ham, along with the betting shops, there are three more traditional gambling places and the Albanian gang playing "Find The Lady" outside Primark never seems short of takers.
Abraham Lincoln waxed lyrical about "the better angels of our nature" but the demons inside all of us don't go away and it's a constant fight for those who struggle with addiction of almost any kind in our consumerist, consumption-based materialistic society.
They say that the Monaco Grand Prix is glamorous but in reality it's just as full of fat people with tattoos as you see at most English football matches. In fact it's Monaco at its least glamorous despite many of the people having paid 1200 euros for their seats.
I don't understand the appeal of Monaco. It's a concrete jungle.
It’s expensive. For some people that’s enough.
Contacts. If you're the sort of pond scum person who likes to be surrounded by the great and the good, who likes to go to the same parties as them and to grease palms, it's the perfect place to go. At least if you can afford it...
The "great and the good" don't go anywhere near Monaco
As Somerset Maughan noted, it's "a sunny place for shady people"
I forget you speak for all the 'great and the good'.
I don’t. But I know where to find them
(Umbria or in the mountains between Nice and St Paul de Vence)
I fear your definition of 'great and good' is very different from mine ...
I presume you are pointing us to Henry Fairlie's definition of The Establishment rather than the Caroll Quigley conspiracy theory (which looks more like Hunchman fodder than anything to be taken seriously)?
Why is Cottarelli now favoured? He has to have a confidence vote passed doesn't he?
Because the Italian President - who was selected not popularly elected - has decided Italy should have a banker led technocrat government which no one voted for rather than one led by the democratically elected politicians who won most votes in the recent elections!
They say that the Monaco Grand Prix is glamorous but in reality it's just as full of fat people with tattoos as you see at most English football matches. In fact it's Monaco at its least glamorous despite many of the people having paid 1200 euros for their seats.
I don't understand the appeal of Monaco. It's a concrete jungle.
It’s expensive. For some people that’s enough.
Contacts. If you're the sort of pond scum person who likes to be surrounded by the great and the good, who likes to go to the same parties as them and to grease palms, it's the perfect place to go. At least if you can afford it...
The "great and the good" don't go anywhere near Monaco
As Somerset Maughan noted, it's "a sunny place for shady people"
I forget you speak for all the 'great and the good'.
I don’t. But I know where to find them
(Umbria or in the mountains between Nice and St Paul de Vence)
I fear your definition of 'great and good' is very different from mine ...
I presume you are pointing us to Henry Fairlie's definition of The Establishment rather than the Caroll Quigley conspiracy theory (which looks more like Hunchman fodder than anything to be taken seriously)?
They say that the Monaco Grand Prix is glamorous but in reality it's just as full of fat people with tattoos as you see at most English football matches. In fact it's Monaco at its least glamorous despite many of the people having paid 1200 euros for their seats.
I don't understand the appeal of Monaco. It's a concrete jungle.
It’s expensive. For some people that’s enough.
Contacts. If you're the sort of pond scum person who likes to be surrounded by the great and the good, who likes to go to the same parties as them and to grease palms, it's the perfect place to go. At least if you can afford it...
The "great and the good" don't go anywhere near Monaco
As Somerset Maughan noted, it's "a sunny place for shady people"
I forget you speak for all the 'great and the good'.
I don’t. But I know where to find them
(Umbria or in the mountains between Nice and St Paul de Vence)
I fear your definition of 'great and good' is very different from mine ...
I presume you are pointing us to Henry Fairlie's definition of The Establishment rather than the Caroll Quigley conspiracy theory (which looks more like Hunchman fodder than anything to be taken seriously)?
Fairlie’s is the approved definition
Makes sense.
I'm interested in how we define The Establishment because I've seen a few Leave posters on here bemoaning 'The Establishment' for trying to stop/divert/dilute Brexit (aka 'The Will of the People'). To a mere oik like me though, it looks like The Establishment is as split as the rest of the country.
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
Ironically, the President was within his constitutional rights. This is not the first time this has been done. Berlusconi wanted his lawyer to be a Minister and the President refused. Also , Renzi was denied a Minister.
Neither, however, said their cabinet was a "whole package".
Mattarella must be mad. This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
Ironically, the President was within his constitutional rights. This is not the first time this has been done. Berlusconi wanted his lawyer to be a Minister and the President refused. Also , Renzi was denied a Minister.
Neither, however, said their cabinet was a "whole package".
Yes, that’s why the system is so daft. Anyway, inviting the technocrat’s technocrat to be PM is inflammatory, and rather useless since he won’t get support from Lega/5*.
I guess there will be another election (as Salvini suggests).
The Italian system seems utterly stupid, and almost designed to encourage populism.
From a Prime Minister drawn from obscurity, and who nobody voted for, to a President who wants to veto Cabinet appointees because they espouse policies the public voted for...
Lamposts and short ropes beckon if this continues. The complete lack of respect the EUphiles have to democracy is surprising, even to me, and I'm extremely sceptical of the EU.
The EU is digging its own grave. It’s on a one way train to destruction. What fun.
Esther McVey took two friends of mine from her Cheshire constituency out for lunch at the House of Commons and apparently she's an extremely nice person and very bright to boot.
The Italian system seems utterly stupid, and almost designed to encourage populism.
From a Prime Minister drawn from obscurity, and who nobody voted for, to a President who wants to veto Cabinet appointees because they espouse policies the public voted for...
Lamposts and short ropes beckon if this continues. The complete lack of respect the EUphiles have to democracy is surprising, even to me, and I'm extremely sceptical of the EU.
The EU is digging its own grave. It’s on a one way train to destruction. What fun.
That seems unlikely. It's pushed countries to the brink before, and they've been the ones too back down. Why would this be any different - will the Italian public really go for a full on confrontation? Even if they elect a government with a mandate to have that confrontation, will that government do it? I mean, didn't the Greek government have an outright referendum to reject an EU/IMF deal regarding their bailout, and they still accepted it?
Any news re exit polls on the Colombian election today. Polling has closed so we should be getting an exit poll soon I suppose. Petro and Duke to go through?
I'm interested in how we define The Establishment because I've seen a few Leave posters on here bemoaning 'The Establishment' for trying to stop/divert/dilute Brexit (aka 'The Will of the People'). To a mere oik like me though, it looks like The Establishment is as split as the rest of the country.
I suspect it isn't split to the same proportions as the everyday rest of the public, but yes, with 'The Establishment' defined as broadly as it is, it is split. Even if they are not a majority, there are prominent Leave supporters throughout. It's just a shorthand for a nebulous 'they' to rally against. I should think that if/when we get a Corbyn government, he'd talk a lot about The Establishment even while he sits in No. 10.
For their sakes I hope Italian law does not require lengthy campaigns - I feel bad when elections so close together still end up with really long wind ups for the people.
For their sakes I hope Italian law does not require lengthy campaigns - I feel bad when elections so close together still end up with really long wind ups for the people.
On the other hand, our counterparts on PB.it are having a whale of a time!
For their sakes I hope Italian law does not require lengthy campaigns - I feel bad when elections so close together still end up with really long wind ups for the people.
On the other hand, our counterparts on PB.it are having a whale of a time!
Il successo di Lega Nord è un segno dei tempi di chiusura razzisti per il nostro paese!
The free tommy Robinson petition is now up to 255,000. The target of 300,000 will be exceeded tonight easily. This appears to be a monumental self inflicted mess by the Government. This is also a story that has the potential to get out of hand. TM has no option but to quickly find a way to get him out of prison or risk giving UKIP a reason to exist again.
What in heavens name has the government or the PM got to do with deciding to arrest people or later releasing them? These are Police, Court & CPS roles.
Unless you think politicians should be telling the Police who & who not to arrest?
For their sakes I hope Italian law does not require lengthy campaigns - I feel bad when elections so close together still end up with really long wind ups for the people.
I'm not sure the minimum, but there are new coalitions to form and register, so iI think the early July possibility mentioned when the previous talks failed has probably passed. And anything between early July and early September would be pretty much unthinkable to the Italian public, what with the sanctity of August as holiday month plus the sizable migration of voters to their home towns on election day.
If this results in an attempt to impeach the president, that might complicate things further.
From a man who knows a lot more than the defenders of Tommy Robinson.
That is very interesting if accurate. Nazir Afzal when chief prosecutor for Northwest England ran the prosecution in the Rochdale case and I am sure he knows what he is doing when outside of the courtroom he obliquely accuses one or more of the defendants in the Leeds trial of working with the far right to try to force the trial to be stopped; and that he knows how far he can go without breaking reporting restrictions when he sends text to Twitter about Tommy Robinson too. Whether the prosecutors in Leeds were pleased when they saw these tweets is another matter. So is how the defence and the judge may respond.
Without wanting to prejudice anything, I note that the (white) EDL came out of some powerful football gangs (commercial criminal organisations which are not at all most concerned either with supporting a football team or with punch-ups on match days), and that in Rotherham the (mainly British Pakistani) sexual exploiters of underage victims were active within a powerful and territorially-based commercial criminal organisation. I have no idea of the guilt or innocence of the defendants in Leeds - let us hope they get a fair trial and that nothing is done that prejudices it - but certainly the men who were guilty in Rotherham would share a language with the EDL.
Some interesting stats on productivity & people in work - focussing on the latter (the former are well rehearsed, UK ± Italy/Spain, well behind Germany/France):
So compared to countries with similar total populations, there are nearly 4 million more people in work in the UK than in France, and 7 million more than there are in Italy.
No, it shows that some British people have become more positive about immigration.
I was being ironic - the British are nearly, or more than twice as positive about Immigration than other European countries - 15 points ahead of lovely liberal Sweden, and more than twice as positive as Spain, Germany, Poland, France, Belgium & Italy - the latter two four times as positive.
And yet we are regaled daily about how uniquely xenophobic and anti-immigrant the British are...
..the Commission issues more extensive recommendations to member states in which the Commission’s legitimacy is more strongly contested....
By being stricter with member states in which its behaviour is more politicised, it signals to other member states and financial markets, among others, that it cannot be coerced into leniency.
Some interesting stats on productivity & people in work - focussing on the latter (the former are well rehearsed, UK ± Italy/Spain, well behind Germany/France):
So compared to countries with similar total populations, there are nearly 4 million more people in work in the UK than in France, and 7 million more than there are in Italy.
So, we could have Spain and France run by radical, centrist, pro-EU parties, while Italy is ran by radical, not in the least bit centrist, anti-EU parties.
And Germany is run by an old lady who last had a good idea in 2008.
No, it shows that some British people have become more positive about immigration.
I was being ironic - the British are nearly, or more than twice as positive about Immigration than other European countries - 15 points ahead of lovely liberal Sweden, and more than twice as positive as Spain, Germany, Poland, France, Belgium & Italy - the latter two four times as positive.
And yet we are regaled daily about how uniquely xenophobic and anti-immigrant the British are...
Your last sentence is a complete straw man - and the figures themselves say nothing about the degree of polarisation on the issue.
No, it shows that some British people have become more positive about immigration.
I was being ironic - the British are nearly, or more than twice as positive about Immigration than other European countries - 15 points ahead of lovely liberal Sweden, and more than twice as positive as Spain, Germany, Poland, France, Belgium & Italy - the latter two four times as positive.
And yet we are regaled daily about how uniquely xenophobic and anti-immigrant the British are...
Your last sentence is a complete straw man - and the figures themselves say nothing about the degree of polarisation on the issue.
What is your evidence for polarisation? Surely starting with 40% saying immigration is positive is better than starting at 20% like our European peers?
Comments
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1000800448897527808?s=19
https://apnews.com/8fff56b54a6243d1968f1e8b45ee1e8a?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter
From a Prime Minister drawn from obscurity, and who nobody voted for, to a President who wants to veto Cabinet appointees because they espouse policies the public voted for...
Of course if you have a constitutional monarchy you tend not to have that problem for good or ill.
Liverpool's founder was an Orangeman and the first Irish Catholic to play for Liverpool happened in the 1970s, Liverpool fans were from all traditions.
Everton were perceived to be the Catholic club when they had a plethora of Irish (Catholic) players in the 50s and 60s.
Both were just one of those quirks.
In fact almost all of Everton's founders were protestant.
But can we stop talking about football, I'm still a little raw and sensitive.
Only comments saying Sergio Ramos is a c*nt are going to be permissible for the next few days.
Both Gerard Batten of UKIP and Milo Yiannopoulos have supported Robinson before. Got to wonder what is in the pipeline. It would certainly be useful for the Tories if some of Labour's current voteshare shifted to a party on the far right and stayed there. Islamophobia is the obvious ideology for it.
From the footage it seems Robinson was surprised at his arrest and had no solicitor lined up beforehand.
As for the Leeds trial itself, trials with so many defendants can prove difficult to prosecute successfully. I won't be surprised if it collapses.
https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1000799230682943489?s=19
However, he was also the man who appointed him in the first place (bullied into it by his mother, allegedly) which had fatally damaged his credibility even after he finally acted in 1943.
One of their reporters has just muddled up the law on abortion on the mainland with the law in Northern Ireland.
A new yellow stuff is emerging in cricket. It cannot really be stopped.
My understanding is that abortion is a criminal offence under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act, while the 1967 Abortion Act is technically an Amendment applying to England and Wales.
So while the story isn't impossible it must be considered highly suspect at this stage.
More here:
https://es.pn/2Lz1VJ4
This is easily represented as an IMF/EU coup.
If there is another election, they will surely give the Democrats a brutal pounding.
So far as Italy goes, surely this is toxic to the pro-establishment parties and should give M5S/Liga even more support ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election
So the biggest winners from a new election would most likely be Lega Nord and probably even more so after today.
In the rest of the UK it is available if the risk to the mother of the pregnancy continuing is greater than the risk of abortion, although there are I believe (you would of course know more than me about this) there are also exemptions for rape, incest and severe foetal abnormality.
But that is not what she said.
The President stated that Italy leaving the Euro had to be a central part of the campaign, to be permitted, not slipped through via the back door.
If elections are re-run, it will be a referendum on leaving the Euro in effect. That may well happen, but also may shift some votes to pro Euro parties.
Apparently 5SM are talking of impeaching the President. Could get a bit messy.
https://twitter.com/matteosalvinimi/status/1000800114271772672
Translated from Italian by
Microsoft
No more servants than anyone, Italy is not a colony, we are not slaves of Germans or French, of the spread or the finance.
At this point, with honesty, consistency and courage ever, the word must come back to you!
#Primagliitaliani! I'm not quitting.
However, Five Star is by no means doctrinally anti Euro, and recently removed a lot of the anti euro rhetoric from their policy platform.
I suggest Juncker and Barnier try being a little less smug and haughty and try and listen a bit more
To give some perspective his petition has now 275,000 in 24 hours. The petition for a Grenfell inquiry got 160,000, Windrush petition 180,000. This petition has already hit the top 10 of all petitions and may well make the top 5.
If however he was filming a report on an ongoing trial in defiance of court orders and police instructions while under a suspended sentence for a previous offence he absolutely deserves what he's getting. If he resisted arrest or shouted abuse at the police he deserves the rest of what he'll get too.
This would appear to be the equivalent (albeit orders of magnitude more serious) of a child not doing their homework three weeks running then whining to their parents when they get punished.
If, on the other hand, there is something politically motivated (which is unlikely but not impossible) that will be shown later and he may be offered compensation. However, that won't affect his current prison sentence reached after the very legal process he seems to be trying to deny to others - unless of course he's a sleeper agent trying to get the trials thrown out which given the sheer inanity of his actions seems possible.
Do you see how many permutations there are and how the petition is actually not a smart way to proceed at this time?
If talks fail and a fresh election is called, Mr Berlusconi could now stand.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44092700
I can put my feet up for the next three weeks can't I?
Actions which could lead to the collapse of trials like Robison was doing are rightly considered to be extremely serious. Unless he is terminally dumb - and I do understand this is a strong possibility in Robinson's case - he had to know his actions could lead to the collapse of the trial. Maybe that was exactly what he wanted.
The numbers of people signing the petition just show how many people are ignorant of the law. I am sure that if the trial had collapsed because of Robinson's actions those same people would have been screaming about how the legal system was letting down the victims.
What makes me ask is this sentence from you - If he resisted arrest or shouted abuse at the police he deserves the rest of what he'll get too.
How can I put this - I can't help but wonder whether the video is a complete record of events.
I say that not just because of the curious nature of the pretext for his arrest, but because of his long track of record of shall we say, aggressive behaviour.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/trump-tries-new-tactic-bemoans-young-and-beautiful-lives-destroyed-by-russia-probe.html
Good night.
On topic, it was interesting that only McVey was prepared to come out and publicly defend the bookmakers keeping the FOBT limit at £100.
Otherwise, Hancock's announcement seemed to get very wide support which either makes it very right or very wrong. ITV Racing did a decent job of analysing the announcement with a wide range of speakers of whom I thought trainer John Gosden was the most impressive.
Horse racing's concern is to see how the shortfall from FOBT income will be made up or indeed if it will. The thought that bookmakers may no longer be able to make easy profits on risk-free betting (for them) forgets the existence of virtual racing and racing beamed in from foreign locations (the latest being South Korea).
When I worked in a shop more than 30 years ago, it was a real "contest" between bookies and punters and the Saturday morning dog cards at Hackney and Crayford always seemed to be about the knowledgeable punters taking the bookies' cash because the punters knew more about the dog form than the off-course firms.
The FOBT announcement marks a step back toward betting with risk and we'll see if the firms now, which are a world away from the organisations created by William Hill, Joe Coral and Cyril Stein, are prepared to take that risk.
The bookies are also playing their own "Project Fear" with nightmarish scenarios of offices closed and jobs lost. Maybe but the High Street model of betting is, with other retailing, falling on the sword of the Internet. People will gamble - in East Ham, along with the betting shops, there are three more traditional gambling places and the Albanian gang playing "Find The Lady" outside Primark never seems short of takers.
Abraham Lincoln waxed lyrical about "the better angels of our nature" but the demons inside all of us don't go away and it's a constant fight for those who struggle with addiction of almost any kind in our consumerist, consumption-based materialistic society.
Viva democracy!
"A Night at the Opera" was a much better Queen album
Labour = Liverpool
I'm interested in how we define The Establishment because I've seen a few Leave posters on here bemoaning 'The Establishment' for trying to stop/divert/dilute Brexit (aka 'The Will of the People'). To a mere oik like me though, it looks like The Establishment is as split as the rest of the country.
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/why-everything-you-know-about-madrid-derby-might-be-wrong
Neither, however, said their cabinet was a "whole package".
Anyway, inviting the technocrat’s technocrat to be PM is inflammatory, and rather useless since he won’t get support from Lega/5*.
I guess there will be another election (as Salvini suggests).
This surely rules her out.
(Any lack of sense down to google translate)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44275010
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/25/spains-government-hanging-thread-corruption-crisis-unfolds/
Unless you think politicians should be telling the Police who & who not to arrest?
If this results in an attempt to impeach the president, that might complicate things further.
https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1000840221532057602
Without wanting to prejudice anything, I note that the (white) EDL came out of some powerful football gangs (commercial criminal organisations which are not at all most concerned either with supporting a football team or with punch-ups on match days), and that in Rotherham the (mainly British Pakistani) sexual exploiters of underage victims were active within a powerful and territorially-based commercial criminal organisation. I have no idea of the guilt or innocence of the defendants in Leeds - let us hope they get a fair trial and that nothing is done that prejudices it - but certainly the men who were guilty in Rotherham would share a language with the EDL.
Employed population (Million):
Germany: 43.1
UK: 31.3
France: 27.5
Italy: 24.5
Spain: 18.5
So compared to countries with similar total populations, there are nearly 4 million more people in work in the UK than in France, and 7 million more than there are in Italy.
http://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter&utm_campaign=time&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
https://twitter.com/azeem/status/1000735631843131393
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1000868955668598784
And yet we are regaled daily about how uniquely xenophobic and anti-immigrant the British are...
By being stricter with member states in which its behaviour is more politicised, it signals to other member states and financial markets, among others, that it cannot be coerced into leniency.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/05/25/the-death-of-business-as-usual-in-the-eu/
And Germany is run by an old lady who last had a good idea in 2008.
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1000945128423477254?s=20